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  1. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #61  
    Originally posted by monkeywithacold
    [B]Voice input is fine as an extra, Purplex, but what are you going to do when you are someplace where you don't want to be talking out loud to your device? Or if background noise is too heavy. One-button thumbing--if that's anything like the input on most cell phones--don't you find that annoying and time consuming to select text that way? Of all the existing input methods available on devices currently on the market, I'm finding the thumb-board works best for me...personally. I don't really know what I'll prefer in the future. It will be interesting to see what comes out and surprises me. I don't like to rule out any ideas or possibilities.
    well ok, "every aspects" of smartphone control might be an exageration.
    but for control and short input, I would say voice recognition and one thumb/two thumbs operation are the ultimate. This is good up to one paragraph or less input. Check wordLogic and TenGo. They are not perfect yet, but definitely show how utterly silly hardware thumboard is.

    http://www.tengo.net/
    (I thought tengo is pretty damned clever)


    For short half page email, I would say more advance input such as handwriting recognition or other fancy pen input like fitaly etc are my preferance. This is the area where thumboard actually the best, but as I say, the space it takes just isn't worth the slight convinient it gives over the alternatives.

    for longer composition, I would say folding keyboard is still the king.

    I can see thumboard is a comfy input, but I simply cannot justify the design sacrifice it demands. It gives such little advantage while adding bulks. Create smarter software instead. If somebody has to type in the entire lecture in paleontology with a treo thumboard, he is definitely not using the right tool. Leech off the note from his friend laptop via WiFi I say. ha !


    Hmm...I don't have any reason to think the flip form is any more a fad than the thumb-board is. Just like thumb-boards, it has its fans and detractors. I think it could have advantages if you want to put a sizable screen into a compact form AND leave room for something like a thumboard and/or even game controllers if incorporating better gaming features into convergence devices proves to be a big hit. You might end up with something a bit like the GBA SP, but hopefully bit narrower.
    I still think clamshell will become more popular. Clamshell gives phone far more surface area than candybar. There isn't enough space in candy bar for all the features. (more buttons, more camera, bigger screens, bigger battery, more radios...etc..)

    for eg, if you consider candybar, it will have only one surface where designer can mount screen and buttons, while in clamshell there are the inner fold for screen and buttons, plus another extra top surface. So right there Clamshell is already winning.

    Clamshell is also far more compact when not in use. The ladies love this purse friendly feature. So I would say, clamshell will be the norm soon, replacing traditional candybar, until something else come along.

    Oh and may as well ask now, Purplex, why are you called "Ska"? I've been wondering that for awhile now.
    oh you have to thanks my friend for that. She created this compostie avatar that would forever be considered the incarnation of devil himself. lol You don't want to meet ska.
  2. #62  
    In my view, Thumboards will go away, when and only when the phone (or other device) can read our MINDS.
    Voice recognition is not acceptable for many people in many situations; ie. responses to quick pages/SMS from the wife.
    What if the wife pages you in a mid-afternoon meeting "can u pick up the kids, and get some milk on the way home..." You may need to communicate something more than the standard "yes/ok". Your options are...

    1) No communication device - you can get up and find a phone, and interrupt the meeting.

    2) Cell phone button input/Graffiti/Screen keyboard - all unacceptibly SLOW, by the time you fininsh responding, you've missed the point of the meeting. God-forbid you are leading the meeting, everyone goes to sleep while you take 10min resonding to your wife about milk!

    3) Voice recognition device - whisper into the device and look like and *****, or leave the meeting to respond, again interrupting.

    4) Treo/or other keyboard device - quickly thumb "yes, but I'll be a little late" - takes < 10sec to enter on a thumb-board.

    5) Mind-reading blue-tooth device finally making thumboards obsolete - Greatness. Until this device arrives on the scene (20yrs from now) i'll continue thumbing.

    I'm a physician. I can respond to SMS (some medical related, some personal) immediately and quickly with very brief interruptions, with the patient in the room.
    You can't do that with voice recog. or other... until we get a mind-reading blue-tooth component. I'll buy one.

    Later.
  3. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #63  
    It's combinations of solutions that will replace thumboard, not one to one substitude. (ie. everything thumboard does will be replaced by voice recog., etc)

    The problem with thumboard remains, it's a huge piece of hardware that only good for very specific task. Alternate software solutions exists and seems to work.

    -------------------

    About screen, here is a perfect comparison photo how big screen in a smartphone really does compete against PDA screen.

    QVGA vs. VGA in UX50
    http://www.wince.ne.jp/Review/katsuo...ICT0061-01.jpg
  4. #64  
    I don't get the point of comparing those two devices, Ska - they are completely different beasts. If your point is to say that flip smartphone screens can be readable and bright, etc - that's a given. We all have seen very nice screens on lots of phones these days.
    I mean, the Sony thing is not even a phone, yet. You should maybe compare the Symbian-based P800, not the UX-50 (or whatever it's called).

    In FACT - your ongoing rants about how great MS's Smartphone OS will be is really misplaced in this forum - you should be going after non-thumbboard forums, like pdaphonehom.com, smartphonesource.com - you probably know them all. The bulk of the folks on this forum will never be convinced, no matter how much it galls you, that the thumbboard is not the best input mechanism. That's why your vitriol should be aimed at other smartphone sites - I think you're wasting your time here. After all, I bet that MS is more concerned about Symbian than about Palm as a mobile device OS.
  5. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #65  
    1. QVGA screen for phone has become available, which in turn propels smartphone display capability.

    2. The screen does not demand massive battery size, nor turning the handheld into an oversize beast.

    3. From the comparative picture, it is clear that the N504i screen is more than capable of displaying good amount of information approaching a super size PDA screen like UX50. (ie. It's not bad for a winky gadget)

    4. a PDA to a smartphone is what desktop to a laptop, pretty soon all smartphone will be able to do all basic PDA capability. In fact a lot of smartphones use the same CPU as PDA.

    I have no idea what MS is more concerned about, but I like my vitriol and 160 by 160 screen myth is a bunk.

    you want vitriols, here I give you one:
    160 by 160 is patheticaly inadequate for advance smartphone regardless what the gippers excuses are.
  6. #66  
    pretty funny stuff - made me laugh, which is always a good thing.

    I like the word 'vitriol' - sometimes words just work; they do a good job conveying their meaning, and vitriol is one of those words.

    Guess I'll have to remove you, Ska, from my ignore list. Ack - what have I wrought?!
  7. #67  
    I never thought I would be saying this, but Purplex your last post to me was free of vitriol and you made your points well in this discussion. I do see what you are saying about the thumbboard. For some though, it provides the best comfort level for data input in handheld units we have seen to date. The successful devices that have thumb-boards are not exactly petite units though. They are large enough to give us decent sized boards and some room for our fingers. So, we're getting into new territory with the 600. I don't know for certain, but off the top of my head I think that may be the smallest thumb-board ever seen on a PDA. Is it really usable or is the user going to be screaming for Fitaly after a day of use? Only time will tell.

    If it doesn't succeed and makes people very frustrated, then it is time to visit a clamshell design for people who insist they need the keyboard, a hi-res screen, but also insist they need a very tiny handheld. Or if they truly must have a candybar style and they can give up on the idea of tiny, they can come over and get a Hitachi G1000 like I have and live in comfort with a gorgeous screen and a really comfy thumb-board, and have their pants fall down when the thing is hooked to their belt. Just kidding--it isn't THAT bad. ( If someone comes out with a case for it that can hold driver's license, credit cards and some cash, I won't even need my wallet anymore and I'll have even more convergence! )

    I confess to remaining fascinated by the 600 because in general form it's a miniature of my beloved Hitachi. I'm extremely comfortable on my Hitachi but fear if it were made any smaller, I would feel pinched and not happy with it at all. So I'm really interested in evaluating how the designers addressed all the issues of miniaturization for the 600. I know already there are sacrifices compared to my G1000. But just how bad are they really? I'll be sticking around to see. I suspect they might have gone a bit too far with the sacrifices regarding that screen. And I'm not entirely sold on their reasons for choosing it. Ahh, but will I be drooling with envy when I see how free 600 users are from relying on the stylus? Possibly.
  8. njchris's Avatar
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    #68  
    I've looked at the other phones with the non-keyboard input. I don't like them. I've had phones with the T9. It was tons better than not having it. BUT, those phones have to predict the word you want. One the one it gives a list. There will be MANY words that don't match (I know there were quite a few on the T9 phone I had). That in and of itself will slow you down. Even on some of the new examples thrown forth, you have to pull out the stylus to do it. When I use one of the chat programs, or email.. I don't need to use the stylus at all with my 300.

    I'm much faster with the thumboard and I would never go back. It was a pain to write without a keyboard, period.
  9. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #69  
    if you like thumboard so much, nobody is stopping you getting a thumboard. In the meantime hardware and software are improving by the days.

    Another day, another advance phone showing up. 2.2inch QVGA with sliding numpad. Sanyo V801SA, GSM triband

    http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/0308/18/n_sajp3g.html
    http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/0303/14/n_sanyoumts.html
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