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  1. #21  
    The numbers speak for themselves:

    PALM IS STILL THE #1 HANDHELD OS!

    This issue has been debated ad infinitum. But in the end, which one is better or worse is relative -- it depends on you particular needs, tastes, likes/dislikes. Therefore, the perferred way to quantify success is by market percent, and Palm OS still leads all others. End of Story.

    One other thing to keep in mind -- If US Robotics, or 3Com, or eventually Palm had taken Microsoft's "kitchen sink" approach in the beginning, I dare say we would not be where we are now. I submit to you that whatever "bloated" device, US Robotics or 3Com or Palm might have offered, would have died the same death as that of the Newton. The fact is, the market can only bear so much innovation (features/price) at any given time, and if exceeded, the product will fail. Palm has (almost) consistently delivered the right feature/price mix, thereby incrementally growing the handheld market to what it is today. So getting back to the point at hand, I'm sure HS could manufacture the Treo 600 with all the bells and whistles, but the price would be more than the market could bear, and chances are, in a few months, we'd all be reading the posts of the two or three freaks who gave their left arm for a phone/PDA.
    go.digital
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by snahabed
    What are we, fools?

    Handspring knows we want Bluetooth and a higher res screen. Their excuses for not including them are OBVIOUSLY bogus.

    They are not including them because they don't have to. Demand on the unit is sky high as is.

    Then, they will do a Rev B with BT and a higher res screen. More $ for them. Ka-ching! Sucks for early adopters here, doesn't it?
    Now that is just bull****. You are just as bad as purpleX, blurping complaints without thinking. Handspring has been very thoughtful about every aspect of the phone from software integration amongst keyboard/phone/camera to the key shapes on the keyboard. In the end, Hawkins had to make some hard decisions and was forced to give up on high-res screen, and the replacable batteries, and we should just respect that.
  3. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #23  
    exactly, who needs BT or large screen, they are not doable with present technology. Those phone with BT and larger screen, well they are not phones, they are pork chops.

    treo 600 is perfect. (uhm, 6 months ago maybe but it'll be a soso smartphoen by christmas and downright stale by february)
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by silverado

    I am quite certain that high resolution Treo's will come out within a year.

    The first Treo 600's models will probably be like the Treo 180 of the 180, 270, 300 series.
    You know, I've been making this assumptiion as well, but how do we know this is realistic? It's been nearly a year and a half since Sprint 1st released the 270 and we're just now about to get a new model from Handspring. I think we're making a lot of rosy predicitons to assume Handspring/PSG will quickly release an updated version of the Treo600, many of which are pretty precarious: the treo600 will be a success, providers will want these features, etc. The truth is there is no guarantee that Handspring will release an updated model with in the time specified. I would like to believe it, but I'm skeptical...
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  5.    #25  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    exactly, who needs BT or large screen, they are not doable with present technology. Those phone with BT and larger screen, well they are not phones, they are pork chops.

    treo 600 is perfect. (uhm, 6 months ago maybe but it'll be a soso smartphoen by christmas and downright stale by february)
    I don't need BT. No one I know has anything that works with it. I had to search for awhile to come up with an application that really benefits greatly from the hi res screen.

    I'm not saying the Treo 600 is perfect, but it's a lightyear ahead of anything device with a similar size, input method (i.e. thumbboard and touch screen), standard OS (in the US that's Palm or PocketPC for me - I don't count Symbian for me or something like the Sidekick's Java). Something in Japan is nice, but useless unless it works with Sprint and has an English version.

    I can't believe the 3600 was brought up in this discussion. Nokia couldn't even put the numbers in a configuration where you can dial it without searching for each number.
  6. #26  
    i'm sure the costs are kept down by the 160 x 160. i also think their assumption is if you want great screeens for gaming pics, etc you'll probably opt for a larger screen and non combo device. the treo was designed for those on the go. its a phone with some great additional communication features. screen res. not vital. easy access to e mails, to do's, calenders , ability to to phone while taking messages, speaker phone, etc. mp3 player,camera . i personally think the low res. is over blown for this device. i do think the lack of daylight viewing is a much bigger issue then low res. this is a serious flaw that I hope is corrected. also, how about a voice recorrder.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 08/11/2003 at 08:54 PM.
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic


    You know, I've been making this assumptiion as well, but how do we know this is realistic? It's been nearly a year and a half since Sprint 1st released the 270 and we're just now about to get a new model from Handspring. I think we're making a lot of rosy predicitons to assume Handspring/PSG will quickly release an updated version of the Treo600, many of which are pretty precarious: the treo600 will be a success, providers will want these features, etc. The truth is there is no guarantee that Handspring will release an updated model with in the time specified. I would like to believe it, but I'm skeptical...
    a year and a half to come up with a totally different design, incorporate the five position thingy and better intergration between the included apps and phone.

    will the next treo (if there is another) have this big of an evolutionary jump or something smaller? Like a better screen or blue tooth included or no camera.

    I think palm/handspring can make this small evolutionary jump real quick if they keep the basic design. Now will they? I guess that depends on how well the 600 does.

    I wont be surprised if we don't see the treo 800 until 2005 and be an OS6 device.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #28  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    I don't need BT. No one I know has anything that works with it. I had to search for awhile to come up with an application that really benefits greatly from the hi res screen.
    I tell you what will be hot with BT, at least taking que what is going on in PPC.

    -the advent of sub $199 BT GPS. BT GPS is perfect for tiny phone. It's the easiest solution for phone without the hassle of adding CF/SD port. If there is an application screaming for BT on the phone this will be it.

    -head set. Right now it's pretty dysmal, but second generation BT headset will hopefully render holding phone unit while making a phone call a thing of the past.

    -the rest are the usual handset <-> computer data exchange. If Palm doesn't put out the BT now, nobody will bother to write apps. Hardware is the egg in this chicken and egg problem. Killer app just doesn't pop up overnite after HS think it is ripe to add the hardware. Look at the state of multimedia player for POS, and killer BT apps are even more complicated than simple media player.

    Why would anybody run strange BT apps on their phone? beats me. I can't even understand why anybody needs to make phone call at all.

    I'm not saying the Treo 600 is perfect, but it's a lightyear ahead of anything device with a similar size, input method (i.e. thumbboard and touch screen), standard OS (in the US that's Palm or PocketPC for me - I don't count Symbian for me or something like the Sidekick's Java). Something in Japan is nice, but useless unless it works with Sprint and has an English version.
    It could be light year ahead to you, but that was the same thing they said for every treo ever made. I didn't see treo 90 thumboard saves HS a$$ in PDA space, nor did I see treo phone take over the world. Advance hardware sells.
  9.    #29  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    I tell you what will be hot with BT, at least taking que what is going on in PPC.

    -the advent of sub $199 BT GPS. BT GPS is perfect for tiny phone. It's the easiest solution for phone without the hassle of adding CF/SD port. If there is an application screaming for BT on the phone this will be it.

    -head set. Right now it's pretty dysmal, but second generation BT headset will hopefully render holding phone unit while making a phone call a thing of the past.

    -the rest are the usual handset <-> computer data exchange. If Palm doesn't put out the BT now, nobody will bother to write apps. Hardware is the egg in this chicken and egg problem. Killer app just d. Advance hardware sells.
    oesn't pop up overnite after HS think it is ripe to add the hardware. Look at the state of multimedia player for POS, and killer BT apps are even more complicated than simple media player.

    It could be light year ahead to you, but that was the same thing they said for every treo ever made. I didn't see treo 90 thumboard saves HS a$$ in PDA space, nor did I see treo phone take over the world

    If combined with GPS, BT connection to a PDA screen would be great app. I don't see such a thing out there for the other BT phones though. As you say it's chicken and the egg. There's some hardware that supports BT (chicken) and no GPS (egg). I'm really looking for the egg in this case, which is the app you describe, but doesn't exist. In the meantime, I hear that Sprint is building GPS into it's system, and that doesn't require another device, so I'd rather pin my hopes there.

    The BT headsets are great, but way overpriced right now, and I think you can get them for most any phone anyway.

    The major application where I use a thumbboard for is IM, which isn't happening on the Treo 90 PDA. I'm not going to type out a huge document in general with that unless it's a very last resort. The thumbboard hits the in between area of IM or SMS where you are writing more than just contact information which Graffiti is good for and less than a document that you'd need a Stowaway for.

    I didn't see that the Treo 90 was revolutionary, but the other Treos were and still are. I don't know of anything that has passed the 300 (for instance) in what I'm looking for in a converged device (see above). There are plenty close, but invariably they fail to not have a phone form factor (blackberry, sidekick), thumbboard, or something else. Other devices are getting closer, but they aren't there.
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #30  
    For simple IM, SIP like Ten-go will beat thumboard by wide margin since it behaves like T-9 but with qwerty layout. For longer passage fitaly is the current speed champion. The way I see it, it's not thumboard is better, but you haven't tried anything else beside thumboard. (which is fair enough since Palm SIP option is very primitive)

    anyway, about treo 600.

    SPV3 is ready for september launch in french. (funny how it comes out even earlier than treo 600 and with things that Handspring says is impossible/useless thing to do)

    talk time: 5 hours
    stand-by time: 100 hours
    vibration alarm: yes
    number of colors: 65536
    number of lines on the screen: 11
    resolution (pixels): 176x220
    Bluetooth: yes
    replaceable battery
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/1156.html

    In the meantime and update of the mio 8380 is out already. Same release date it seems
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/1154.html
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    For simple IM, SIP like Ten-go will beat thumboard by wide margin since it behaves like T-9 but with qwerty layout. For longer passage fitaly is the current speed champion. The way I see it, it's not thumboard is better, but you haven't tried anything else beside thumboard. (which is fair enough since Palm SIP option is very primitive)
    You love using new terms and hope people are too lazy to go look them up, and then find out it's not really anything new after all.




    anyway, about treo 600.

    SPV3 is ready for september launch in french. (funny how it comes out even earlier than treo 600 and with things that Handspring says is impossible/useless thing to do)

    talk time: 5 hours
    stand-by time: 100 hours
    vibration alarm: yes
    number of colors: 65536
    number of lines on the screen: 11
    resolution (pixels): 176x220
    Bluetooth: yes
    replaceable battery
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/1156.html

    In the meantime and update of the mio 8380 is out already. Same release date it seems
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/1154.html
    Palm OS? (judging from screen, no)
    camera?
    SD slot?
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #32  
    RTFA might be a good idea.
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by Felipe


    a year and a half to come up with a totally different design, incorporate the five position thingy and better intergration between the included apps and phone.

    will the next treo (if there is another) have this big of an evolutionary jump or something smaller? Like a better screen or blue tooth included or no camera.

    I think palm/handspring can make this small evolutionary jump real quick if they keep the basic design. Now will they? I guess that depends on how well the 600 does.

    I wont be surprised if we don't see the treo 800 until 2005 and be an OS6 device.
    And yet a high rez screen and integrated BT are not just incremental upgrades, especially the latter. It will require new FCC certification and new debugging from wireless providers. The second part is the most excrutiatingly slow as many Samsung and Kyocera users will testify. If even huge companies like Samsung and Kyocera can't manage to roll out successive PalmOs smartphones in less than a year timeframe, why should we assume "PalmSpring" will be able to? (the SPH-i500 was announced nearly 10 months ago while the SGH-i500 probably won't arrive for another 6 months) Secondly, 2005 until an OS 6 treo? I certainly hope it's not that far away. However, I do agree that it would be nice to see some segmentation with in the Treo 600 family which allowes for differeing versions. Handspring has already indicated that is what they planned, but it remains to be seen if anything come of it. I personally would like to see a super "low-end" model that has minus the camera and even possible only 16 MB ram for around ~$200 price mark (subsidized). That essentially what the Treo270/300 will priced at 4-5 months after release. However I dont' think Palmspring/wireless companies can wait too long to cut the price again. When these price cuts occurs I believe may be the best indication of if and when there are any new versions of the Treo600 to be released...
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  14. #34  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    For simple IM, SIP like Ten-go will beat thumboard by wide margin since it behaves like T-9 but with qwerty layout. For longer passage fitaly is the current speed champion. The way I see it, it's not thumboard is better, but you haven't tried anything else beside thumboard. (which is fair enough since Palm SIP option is very primitive)
    OYE!! Not that same tired arguement again Ska! Please, haven't you figured out everyone here is a thumbboard believer and nothing you say will convice otherwise? And, yes I've seen all your damned links and pics etc, so please don't post them again!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  15. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #35  
    ten-go is a recent release product pal, so tired argument my foot. How about examining your tired defense argument for the chicklet keys instead?
  16. #36  

    For simple IM, SIP like Ten-go will beat thumboard by wide margin since it behaves like T-9 but with qwerty layout. For longer passage fitaly is the current speed champion. The way I see it, it's not thumboard is better, but you haven't tried anything else beside thumboard. (which is fair enough since Palm SIP option is very primitive)

    anyway, about treo 600.

    SPV3 is ready for september launch in french. (funny how it comes out even earlier than treo 600 and with things that Handspring says is impossible/useless thing to do)

    talk time: 5 hours
    stand-by time: 100 hours
    vibration alarm: yes
    number of colors: 65536
    number of lines on the screen: 11
    resolution (pixels): 176x220
    Bluetooth: yes
    replaceable battery
    Hmmm... Isn't "SIP" some term that describes soft keys on the screen?

    Last I checked, SPV doesn't have a touch screen.

    If you can't deny the two above facts, what does that say about your writings here? Just pieces of information from different products thrown together, trying to give the impression that they are all available in one device and, therefore, the Treo 600 is inferior.

    All with the attitude of "My dad can beat up your dad". How about some grown up discussion about merits without trying to "win" and show that what you like (or that those who pay you) are so much "better", always and at all costs? How credible does that make you in the eyes of those whom you are trying to convince? Not very.

    Oh, and some honesty would also be refreshing.
  17. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #37  
    Was in context of treo 90, but yes tengo will only run on PPC PE. As of now Smartphones only has several SIP replacements, mostly T-9 variants. Are these enhancement better than treo 600 thumbpad in term of input speed in IM? I don't know yet. I'll let you know when I am sure.


    PS. don't cry mommy when somebody point out your toy is not the fastest after bragging about how fast it is.
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by conflagrare


    Now that is just bull****. You are just as bad as purpleX, blurping complaints without thinking. Handspring has been very thoughtful about every aspect of the phone from software integration amongst keyboard/phone/camera to the key shapes on the keyboard. In the end, Hawkins had to make some hard decisions and was forced to give up on high-res screen, and the replacable batteries, and we should just respect that.
    You are naive.

    First of all, I approve of the overall design of the Treo 600 -- otherwise, I wouldn't be reading these messageboards. But the fact that people buy Hawkins' spin about "being forced to sacrifice" a high-res screen, as if he were Solomon, is laughable.

    The man wasn't forced to do squat. These devices are going to be used for data/web. That's the primary reason I am interested in the unit. Who wants to view the web in grainy 12-bit color? I don't care if I get 15 minutes more battery time... I would guess most people charge their units every day.

    In other words, his excuse is bogus spin. He is doing what any red-blooded capitalist would do... get early adopters' money by selling first generation Treo 600s at a "premium price"... then somehow (as if by magic?) add a high-res screen for Rev B, thereby creating new demand. Do you really think a high-res screen would add $300 in cost? Uh no. But if you're spending $500 on a cell phone, an extra $50 or whatever really shouldn't be that big a deal.

    I mean, we all like most things about the Treo 600, but don't be gullible to think Handspring had a moral dilemma about the screen resolution. They didn't "choose" to go low-res for technical reasons. They did it so that Treo 600 owners will "just have to have" the Treo 610 or whatever it will be called.
  19. #39  
    PurpleX:

    First I say:

    "... All with the attitude of "My dad can beat up your dad". How about some grown up discussion about merits without trying to "win" and show that what you like (or that those who pay you) are so much "better", always and at all costs? How credible does that make you in the eyes of those whom you are trying to convince? Not very."

    To which you reply:

    "... PS. don't cry mommy when somebody point out your toy is not the fastest after bragging about how fast it is. "

    I rest my case.

    It's useless trying to "debate" anyone with this attitude. Do you know what I would do if someone showed me a that their "toy" is really better than mine? I would dump mine and go buy the better one. It's as simple as that. It's not a battle. We're not children. But we now all know that that's the only "game" you know how to play.
  20. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #40  
    ..well well... lookie here, somebody lose his marble again.

    ...even if you guise it with 'adult decorum', the talk is essentially the same. ie. My toy is better/faster/cooler than yours. Yes there is criteria, but what it comes down to it's still the same, how the device performs within given criteria.

    If you are really not interested in finding out if your toy is really the best/latest/coolest you wouldn't chime in and get all work up about this or that feature arguments. If you think treo 600 is the best toy in the world bar none, then you'll be just smirking and merrily go your way with the thought. But since you get all crazy when told it isn't the fastest/coolest/best, then well .... you know what you are thinking, it's pretty transparent.
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