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  1.    #1  
    This is a AP article on Jeff Hawkins, holding the original Palm Pilot and the Treo 600.
    article
  2. #2  
    The picture is amazing. It's cool small things have gotten. Reminds me of this picture.
  3. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #3  
    Don't forget 300Million and a busted company in between.

    Palm Inc itself has bleed 800M since IPO. (how can a small company lost 800M in 3 years anyway? you can fly 3 satelites to Mars with that money)
  4. #4  
    purpleX, do you have any idea how much has been lost in WinCE hardware & software? Makes Palm look like small potatoes . . .
  5. #5  
    These companies may have lost $1.1 billion, but what wonderful gadgets that money has b(r)ought us!
  6. #6  
    Pointing out that company W also is a failure changes nothing about facts pointed out about company P.

    Fact is, PALM was a failure (with cool stuff), Handspring was a failure (with cool stuff), and it is highly likely based on financials that the NEW PALM will be a failure (with cool stuff).

    Third time's the charm?

    Mr. Hawkins is sufficiently rich now (from all his failures!) that he can concentrate on cool stuff without worrying about financial success.

    Which, of course and IMHO, is why he's a part-timer with Handspring right now and with the new PALM in the future (according to the S-4 filed by PALM).
  7. #7  
    My point really was that how much money may have been lost is not necessarily the relevant measure for success or failure. Microsoft has shown us that it often takes two or three tries before success comes, and that the money invested in the first couple of efforts is not really "lost," as the later successful efforts could not have succeeded without the groundwork laid by the previous "failures." I think the jury's still out on this one. I truly hope Palm and Microsoft are both successful, as the competition that arises from having both in the marketplace drives better and less expensive products and services for us, the consumers. As to the investors, caveat emptor.
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #8  
    definitely nowhere near 1.1B.

    the microsoft CE group current quarterly lost is in the range of 20M, with shrinking trend. I would guess Microsoft is throwing about a third of what Palm inc is shinking since inception.

    My point really was that how much money may have been lost is not necessarily the relevant measure for success or failure.
    It's a business enterprise, of course in the end it's about making money.

    what's more, observing the trend, It is not getting easier for Palm. New product is behind the curve, less and less manufacturers in the group, diminishing market share and shrinking cash.

    Microsoft can afford, if we fail with CE, try try again. They have the money to burn. But with Palm? they can't afford that.
  9.    #9  
    ...and Microsoft, where do their ideas come from? hummmmmm

    Windows - the Macintosh
    Windows CE/PPC - the Palm
    X Box - Play Station, Game Cube etc.

    the funny thing is they don't even make good copies. Microsoft is a brand name. Yes, they are the biggest and have the most $$$ but they don't have the best or coolest stuff.
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #10  
    Palm OS and hardware don't exist in vacuum either. Take a look at newton, and compare it to Palm OS look and feel.

    If Microsoft is just bunch of fools, they sure make a lot of money selling goofy ideas.

    But we will see how Palm/Handspring fare in phone business in the next 12 months.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    definitely nowhere near 1.1B.

    the microsoft CE group current quarterly lost is in the range of 20M, with shrinking trend. I would guess Microsoft is throwing about a third of what Palm inc is shinking since inception.

    Microsoft can afford, if we fail with CE, try try again. They have the money to burn. But with Palm? they can't afford that.
    Are you counting stock losses in this or real cash? If you count stock loses Microsoft is down some 300 Billion in that time period (they were at 60 in $2000 and now at $26). I don't think Palm has lost 1 billion in real cash.

    Losing money isn't necessarily a sign of business when a company like Microsoft can move profits from other products and undercut you until you have no cash to stand on. This is what happened with Netscape. IE coming free meant that Netscape had to be free and hence get no income. Imagine if Netscape and IE had both sold their products for $25-35, back at the beginning. Netscape was winning marketshare and would have had extensive cash to continue innovating.
  12.    #12  
    your right, it was the Newton, another Apple product. Wonder how long it will be before they try to copy the iPod and the iTunes Music Store?

    Hey I'm not bashing them, I just don't think they are innovative, or have really cool products.
  13. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #13  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland


    Are you counting stock losses in this or real cash? If you count stock loses Microsoft is down some 300 Billion in that time period (they were at 60 in $2000 and now at $26). I don't think Palm has lost 1 billion in real cash.
    .
    They have approximately 1B cash around the time of their IPO, now they have about 250M. that's 800M went down the drain.

    Stock? their market cap was once around several B, now it barely 400M.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by imageone
    your right, it was the Newton, another Apple product. Wonder how long it will be before they try to copy the iPod and the iTunes Music Store?

    Hey I'm not bashing them, I just don't think they are innovative, or have really cool products.
    Well there are a handful of iPod like HDD mp3 players already, and BuyMusic.com is trying to muscle in on the iTunes Music Store. Microsoft might not come up with original ideas, but as long as they improve on them or make them more accessable to the masses, they'll be successful. For what it's worth, I think some of the iPod clones out there are better than the iPod, with more features and for less money. But hey, let's not get into an Apple vs. the rest of the world argument.
  15.    #15  
    BuyMusic.com is a joke. They don't even come close to having the library of the iTunes Music Store.

    I guess it's all just a matter of personal preference, and I prefer innovative cool stuff. I don't buy something just because it's cheaper.
  16. #16  
    It's not just about price. One of the iPod clones, while cheaper, can make playlists on the fly, has an FM tuner and can encode mp3s on the fly from the radio or line in, and has an FM modulator to broadcast your mp3s. iPods can't match that. Apple has always been overpriced for what they offer. They might create something, but they charge an arm and a leg and rest on their laurels while someone else improves on it and makes it cheaper.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    They have approximately 1B cash around the time of their IPO, now they have about 250M. that's 800M went down the drain.

    Stock? their market cap was once around several B, now it barely 400M.
    Okay, I'll buy that as being accurate or close enough to accurate for argument's sake. But your argument has to consider that Palm largely lost money on the hardware side of things. They didn't blow 800M in developing the software side. Thus you'd have to add up the lost money on hardware from HP/Compaq, Casio, Dell, etc. over the years to be comparing apples to apples.

    And I'm counting all the years in which WinCE failed miserably while Palm was riding high before the economic down turn.
  18.    #18  
    sorry to inform you but, the iPod can create playlist on the go. It will also sync your calendar and contacts. You can also mount as external HD and use for back up, add notes and read with the built in text reader. No it doesn't have a built in FM modulator, but for $35 the best one is the iTrip.

    Also look for Bluetooth in the next model.

    And remember, you get what you pay for.
  19.    #19  
    Hey, maybe we should just end this thread.

    I started it by simply posting a link to an article about Jeff Hawkins and Palm. And it's turned into the "is the iPod a better MP3 player" and "Microsoft is kicking Palm's ***".

    I'll take the blame for it all.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by imageone
    Hey, maybe we should just end this thread.

    I started it by simply posting a link to an article about Jeff Hawkins and Palm. And it's turned into the "is the iPod a better MP3 player" and "Microsoft is kicking Palm's ***".

    I'll take the blame for it all.
    Yeah, we got way off topic here, but I'll take some of the blame too. So uh... how bout that Jeff Hawkins article... neat huh?
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