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  1. #21  
    Bottom line on this is to put a protector on the screen.... I do this with my Treo 300, even though there is a flip cover. Purple Moo does the trick nicely. I expect to be slapping it on my Treo 600, when I get it.

    What is this Purple Moo of which you speak and does it make the screen harder to see?
  2. #22  
    I'm beggining to think that JakeE and purplex are the same people. px only replies to JE and vice versa.
    And if not, I don't think you, JakeE, are that great a learner. The reason I say that is that although a handful of us (including the mod) have more or less yelled at you to stop replying to this foolio (if it is indeed not you) you have not. STOP THE MADNESS

    TheHandlessKing

    By the way, I didn't realize how small the 600 really is. I want.
    Latest moBlog shot:
  3.    #23  
    TheHandlessKing

    You said "I don't think you, JakeE, are that great a learner."

    I will remind you what the great Greek philosopher Plato said on this subject: "There is no learning without pain."

    I completely understand and agree with your points but I believe every coin has a flip side.

    In the thread “Adieu to the Treo” which ended up being “Adieu to the Troll”, PurpleX showed us his true colors and got COMPLETELY BUSTED being a troll.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...threadid=34792

    At that point I decided to ignore the troll.

    I completely understand PurpleX made many people in the forum including myself very uncomfortable. I chose to attempt to answer his belligerent silliness with real answers. After he showed his true colors I decided to ignore his silliness.

    Here is what I have decided. I am a forgiving person and I am willing to go onward and upward ONLY if PurpleX decides to become a productive member of this forum. If he insults anyone, or writes belligerently, I will ignore him. If he asks a question which I believe merits an answer, I will dignify it with a response.

    I know it may seem highly counter-intuitive but there is a great quote which I believe is perfectly on-point for this set of circumstance: “He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skills. Our antagonist is our helper.” In my mind PurpleX has actually helped me cement in my own mind what I originally believed.

    I know that in my own experience, especially when I was younger, I had to often hate something before I could love it. Strange perhaps…but true. If PurpleX or any other Treo dissenters end up having a stunning revelation or epiphany which results in them getting a Treo 600 there will be no doubt in their mind why they have what they have.

    I do not know what PurpleX’s gig is? But vehement defense on the PPC post actually added to the value proposition of my argument. In my personal opinion the discussion on Universal Design was fascinating and invaluable:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...threadid=34747

    HandlessKing:

    With all due respect and sincerity I hope you feel comfortable with my answer.

    What do you think?

    Jake
    Last edited by JakeE; 07/10/2003 at 09:05 PM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  4. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #24  
    In my personal opinion the discussion on Universal Design was fascinating and invaluable.
    actually i have no idea what I was talking about, and just made up the whole thing. But if you fascinated by it, suits me just fine.
  5. #25  
    now that's funny.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    actually i have no idea what I was talking about, and just made up the whole thing. But if you fascinated by it, suits me just fine.

    Showing once again that you are nothing but a troll on this board, and we should all quit responding to you. Anything else rewards that fact that all you do is drop in buckets of negativity with no real value. You wind up detracting from every thread you respond to.
  7. #27  
    Could we get back to the issue...

    What is Purple Moo... NOT purple x?


    Bottom line on this is to put a protector on the screen.... I do this with my Treo 300, even though there is a flip cover. Purple Moo does the trick nicely. I expect to be slapping it on my Treo 600, when I get it.
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #28  
    Originally posted by Treo_Ken

    Showing once again that you are nothing but a troll on this board, and we should all quit responding to you. Anything else rewards that fact that all you do is drop in buckets of negativity with no real value. You wind up detracting from every thread you respond to.
    ...eh? a bit convoluted isn't it?
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by CmdrGuard
    Could we get back to the issue...

    What is Purple Moo... NOT purple x?


    See: http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=3278

    and PurpleMoo.com
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by TheHandlessKing
    (Snip)...although a handful of us (including the mod) have more or less yelled at you to stop replying to this foolio (if it is indeed not you) you have not. STOP THE MADNESS

    TheHandlessKing

    By the way, I didn't realize how small the 600 really is. I want.
    Amen, topic after topic...and the tons of screen real-estate devoted to this nonsense is ridiculously annoying. JakeE, if you took a break and decided to ignore Purplex, I must have blinked and missed it.

    I've had enough. I'm outta here until the Treo is actually on the market and I can contribute something more solid than opinion myself, and get help and advice from others on the actual use of the thing. I extend my thanks to the people here who answered my questions, put up that great cut-out version of the Treo, and whet my interest in the 600. See you in the fall, I hope.
  11. #31  
    I'm fascinated by the Head-in-Sand style of discussion by early-adopter-geeks here on TreoCentral - purple-etc has pointed out a BOATLOAD of problems relative to the TREO 600, most valid, a few not, and the written (albeit not necessarily consensus) opinion is "Stop paying attention to him"!

    IMHO< that's why, literally, only early-adopter-geeks buy TREOs - someone didn't pay attention to the "kid" yelling out "But the Emperor's not wearing any clothes!".

    Interesting from the future-financials-of-PALM POV.
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    I'm fascinated by the Head-in-Sand style of discussion by early-adopter-geeks here on TreoCentral - purple-etc has pointed out a BOATLOAD of problems relative to the TREO 600, most valid, a few not, and the written (albeit not necessarily consensus) opinion is "Stop paying attention to him"!

    IMHO< that's why, literally, only early-adopter-geeks buy TREOs - someone didn't pay attention to the "kid" yelling out "But the Emperor's not wearing any clothes!".

    Interesting from the future-financials-of-PALM POV.
    Seldom,

    I think the "don't listen to him" message came out after a number of real attempts at discussions. I certainly tried very hard to have one. He does bring up valid points individually but, IMO, his points don't tie up into one argument. He criticizes the Treo 600 for every missing feature compared to all aother types of devices, regardless of who it is meant for. You generally can't get a big picture discussion with him. Many other times he is just making undeserved jabs and sarcastic remarks that can serve no purpose. Because of all of this, I stopped participating.

    I think the majority of people here (including you) agree that we have an Amiga-like device on our hands aiming for a certain segment of users that can sustain it. However, it needs a very smart marketing strategy so that it doesn't have the same fate as the Amiga.
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    I'm fascinated by the Head-in-Sand style of discussion by early-adopter-geeks here on TreoCentral - purple-etc has pointed out a BOATLOAD of problems relative to the TREO 600, most valid, a few not, and the written (albeit not necessarily consensus) opinion is "Stop paying attention to him"!

    IMHO< that's why, literally, only early-adopter-geeks buy TREOs - someone didn't pay attention to the "kid" yelling out "But the Emperor's not wearing any clothes!".

    Interesting from the future-financials-of-PALM POV.
    With regard to "trolls"...

    I don't have a problem with honest, frank discussion on the merits or shortcomings of a device when the participants have had first-hand experience with it. I'll be the first to state disappointment if a feature that I was hoping for isn't included (once I have a chance to see the device for myself and actually USE it).

    But I'm not going to go on a campaign to berate a device which I've never had a chance to use. I also won't resort to personal attacks (as both sides have stooped to) over who uses (or wants to use) a particular device.

    As to whether the problems that have been pointed out amount to a "BOATLOAD", that's debatable. What some see as a problem, others don't see as such.

    Is it your opinion that if an enthusiast for a particular device extolls the virtues of the device and downplays the shortcomings, he's "sticking his head in the sand"? I respectfully disagree. Every device out there has an audience and a following. To come to a forum and act as "Devil's Advocate" is one thing, but to insist that the people in it are uninformed (to put it mildly) because they don't share a particular opinion of yours is insulting.

    Express your opinion. People will agree or not. That's fine, but don't harp on it and be disruptive when someone is trying to have a discussion on a particular topic.

    In the case of the Treo 600, we had a user get a hands-on review of the product. He gave his opinion on what he thought of it. That's fair enough. To have someone who is bearly a Treo user (if at all) come in and try to shoot holes in his opinion and introduce "shortcomings" in the device, when he hasn't ever held it in his hands (or seen it first-hand) is argumentative.

    To go from post to post (regardless of the topic) and shout about the shortcomings of a device is disruptive. People come here to learn about the Treo and what it can do. Not to be told what it CAN'T do to the exclusion of what it can. If someone doesn't like the Treo they have the option of not buying it.

    All of the above is what a "troll" does. A "troll" is a "troll" no matter what clothing he wears.
    Last edited by Insp_Gadget; 07/11/2003 at 07:55 AM.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  14. #34  
    > ...I think the majority of people here (including you) agree that
    > we have an Amiga-like device on our hands aiming for a certain
    > segment of users that can sustain it. However, it needs a very
    > smart marketing strategy so that it doesn't have the same fate
    > as the Amiga.

    True.

    As the geek-proud owner of three, now two, Amigas I think they're really cool devices and in some ways STILL ahead of the state of the art.

    Total financial failures, however.

    The TREOs appear to be cool devices, no doubt, but really are WAY too expensive to sell - Handspring has essentially abandoned the corporate market as well, having realized that corporations - at least nearterm - REALLY aren't interested in anything other than desktops, laptops, and plain-jane cell phones (in any meaningful quantity) (*). And that means Hndspring (or perhaps PALM) ==has== to get that price down.

    On another thread some geek said, paraphrased, "Yeah, $450 would be an ideal price for the TREO 600".

    Clue: $450 is so outrageously expensive that it is SO NONideal as to be laughable. $100 is a well-known pricepoint in the cell phone field and PALM sure better get to that price soon.

    But...

    I don't wanna discuss - too much - the financial side of things here on Geek Central - prefering to do that elsewhere. This place is for Cool Stuff discussions that don't necessarily have any foundations in Real World issues...

    ((*) Handspring said a fairly long while ago (at intro of TREO 180) that they were going to concentrate on the Enterprise - that obviously didn't work since there essentially are NO enterprises that have bought the TREOs. More recently, post-merger-news, they said they were going to concentrate on the retail market. While this is probably a necessary and GOOD move on their part, hand-in-hand with "retail market" goes "retail prices" - and they're not there yet)
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    [B$100 is a well-known pricepoint in the cell phone field and PALM sure better get to that price soon.
    [/B]
    There is no way that is going to happen (perhaps ever). Palm can barely sell a Zire at $99. Snowball's chance in B. Clinton's boxers they can put a phone in there.
  16. #36  
    > ...There is no way that [$100 price] is going to happen (perhaps ever)...

    Yes, that is what I think as well.
  17. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #37  
    Originally posted by silverado

    Seldom,

    I think the "don't listen to him" message came out after a number of real attempts at discussions. I certainly tried very hard to have one. He does bring up valid points individually but, IMO, his points don't tie up into one argument. He criticizes the Treo 600 for every missing feature compared to all aother types of devices, regardless of who it is meant for. You generally can't get a big picture discussion with him. Many other times he is just making undeserved jabs and sarcastic remarks that can serve no purpose. Because of all of this, I stopped participating.

    I think the majority of people here (including you) agree that we have an Amiga-like device on our hands aiming for a certain segment of users that can sustain it. However, it needs a very smart marketing strategy so that it doesn't have the same fate as the Amiga.
    hmmm,

    1.Screen. The argument was: It has to be 160 by 160 otherwise it will be super large and eat up battery like nothing. I post bunch of links of pictures from various brands and products to prove that large screen is NOT exotic, albeit cutting edge. It does not cause device to be big, nor the battery to ebcome impossibly large.

    2. but but... big screen and thumpad won't fit. thumpad is devine, you can't have a handheld without it. I believe this one you try to argue, and I bring numerous instances which basically argue: Thumbpad is overrated. The large space sacrifice does not warrant the small convinient it gives. Typical soft input solutions can conver more than enough what TB supposedly can do. Real life examples exists and they work, this is not just utopian day dreaming. So in the end, one can just yelp... It's tactile, it's the tactile... (yeah well with such tiny tic-tac size key who care if it has tactile or not. You'll still be fumbling around in the dark trying to position your tumb correctly on it)

    3. Treo 600, need to answer serious question about battery performance in light of what we know about T|T. And handspring need to damned well answer why they don't put replaceable.

    4. Is it "very" small? Not really if it is competing against typical highend advance phone. It is however is a small PDA. But is it hardly "very" small, not to mention above 6oz. weight. It pases the 5 oz barrier.

    5. Screen will pose a problem if it has to perform as fullblown PDA. Size wise it certainly cannot compete when it come to displaying text. (eg. web page, docs, text)

    there is also no mention how the screen itself will perform. (does it look nice? is it griddy? how is color depth? does it have blurring problem?)

    6. Palm itself has a problem in high end applications, which what a high end PDA should be able to do. I don't buy the argument it is not a high end PDA if it is priced at $500+

    7. Bluetooth. All recent advance phone has this. for a $500 device, somebody bound to ask "how come I can't use a BT earpiece with this?"?

    from PDA point of view, BT represent a leap of convinience and functionality. (eg. for a $500 device, can treo600 have GPS input and act as voice navigation tool? How about fun and games?)

    8. Is the camera supported by PDA apps to make it at least fun. Or is it an afterthought gimmick to most people?

    Bottom line: treo 600 is great device a few months ago, or even now. But by the time it launches, it is severely under featured. And it will be overpriced at $500.

    By Q1 next year, the supposedly peak life time of this device, treo600 is pretty much one of the bottom performer, knowing what the competiton will come out.

    Is treo a superior all in one device or a dubious niche product for diehard fans?

    Does it make an excellent PDA to compete against 2 pieces solution?

    Does it make attractive phone so people want to cough up top dolar?

    How does it compare to other "smartphones" in term of price, features and performance?

    I fail to see how treo600 can convincingly win the market. It's neither a stylish phone, excellent PDA, or a front runner smartphones. It is certainly is not cheap.

    and no, it is not 'very' small.
  18. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #38  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor ... corporations - at least nearterm - REALLY aren't interested in anything other than desktops, laptops, and plain-jane cell phones (in any meaningful quantity) [/B]
    Wow, I can't believe you said that. Wireless is a really big deal to the business market. Right now, the Blackberry (with thumbboard) rules. The whole idea of 3G is business-data-oriented. OK, the wireless carriers are trying to pitch 3G as a way to send pictures from one camera phone to another, but come on now, do you really think they will be able to finance 3G with picture exchange?

    I do agree with you that Handspring has moved away from the business market with the Treo 600. IMO any smartphone with a camera is aimed at the consumer market.
  19.    #39  
    Iceman6:

    With all due respect, I disagree with you.

    I personally will use the onboard camera much more for business.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  20. #40  
    >> ...corporations - at least nearterm - REALLY aren't interested
    >> in anything other than desktops, laptops, and plain-jane cell
    >> phones (in any meaningful quantity)...
    >
    > Wow, I can't believe you said that. Wireless is a really big deal
    > to the business market...

    Wireless is a communications methodology. Corporations are way interested in it because it gets rid of a major hassle - wire.

    That has nothing to do with what uses it, however. Corporations use desktops and laptops and plain-jane cellphones, pretty much.

    Cool phones are something that have made essentially zero inroads into corporations - the above quoted part from my post is entirely correct.

    > ...Right now, the Blackberry (with thumbboard) rules...

    If one is discussing instant email/messaging, RIMM "rules" is factually correct (they are THE major player), however the actual installed based is miniscule. Thus RIMM is "ruling" a limited domain (and has little to nothing to do with "wireless").

    =====

    Note - HAND and Sprint have apparently made a deal with Good Technology to install software in TREO 600s and hardware/software at Sprint (see today's news). Good Technology is very much an also-ran compared to RIMM, however.

    And, IMHO, this "deal" won't get the TREO 600 into very many more businesses than it would have been in in the first place.
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