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  1. #21  
    Potatoho, that was a great rant. I agree with every bit of it. You nail right on the head the experience on my Blackberry and then the experience on my Treo.
  2. #22  
    Potatoho,

    I agree. Palm OS has not put the effort in making wireless network connectivity seemless. I think there are a few reasons for this. The net library was an add on to Palm OS from the beginning and I guess it was always thought of that way. I guess it is hard to change the fundamental way someone thinks about something. Blackberry's were concieved from the beginning for this one purpose, so that aspect was streamlined from the beginning. It is time for the Palm gang to start streamlining that aspect of the OS.
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by silverado
    Potatoho,

    I agree. Palm OS has not put the effort in making wireless network connectivity seemless. I think there are a few reasons for this. The net library was an add on to Palm OS from the beginning and I guess it was always thought of that way. I guess it is hard to change the fundamental way someone thinks about something. Blackberry's were concieved from the beginning for this one purpose, so that aspect was streamlined from the beginning. It is time for the Palm gang to start streamlining that aspect of the OS.
    OS 5 and 6 are each (independent) tear-down and rebuilds. Are the net libraries in those any better?
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    OS 5 and 6 are each (independent) tear-down and rebuilds. Are the net libraries in those any better?
    Last version of Palm OS that I programmed was 4.x, so I'm not sure if things are different on 5 or 6.

    By the way, a program could replace the connection progress dialogs with its own, but, if I remember correctly, you couldn't get rid of them completely. So a program could provide the user with a simpler connection progress and error reporting. In our case that worked nicely because the programs we were writing took over the palm device completely for one special purpose use, so the user couldn't connect any other way.
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by silverado
    By the way, a program could replace the connection progress dialogs with its own, but, if I remember correctly, you couldn't get rid of them completely.
    Do you remember if it required using hacks? I haven't researched it, but I have seen some reference to being able to do that. I'm thinking it was just some OS traps that had to be overridden.

    As for OS 5-6 network stack behaving differently, I kinda doubt it. From what I can see in the OS 5.2 simulator, the network section of Prefs looks pretty much the same. FIRST, Palm etc has to recognize that there is a problem. I think Handspring started moving towards a quiet network connection, in that they are using the always-on buzzword. They just didn't follow through enough to realize that networks would be pathologically kicking us off or there'd be turbo drain and RBOD and whatever other network problem. They designed it for perfect conditions, rather than the worst of conditions. I believe the proper term is "robust", which Palm's networking is clearly NOT.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by potatoho

    Do you remember if it required using hacks? I haven't researched it, but I have seen some reference to being able to do that. I'm thinking it was just some OS traps that had to be overridden.
    I seem to remember that you supplied your own form ID (or some other descriptor of it) as part of some of the API calls you make to connect. I think there were a few opprtunities for you to do that along the stages of connecting (dialing, establishing the IP connection).
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    Potatoho, that was a great rant. I agree with every bit of it. You nail right on the head the experience on my Blackberry and then the experience on my Treo.
    I got another one First off, I actually love PalmOS and I hardly ever have issues with it programmatically -- It's been a can-do platform from day one for me. But IMO they really need to optimize some stuff.

    Remember how PalmOS was always anti-hourglass, and how it didn't have any unresponsive screens or "Busy" indicators. Umm, what the hell happened to that concept!?

    Nearly every time I go to use my Treo, I'm seeing delay after delay. I'm either looking at "Please wait.." when I go to beam or delete and app, or the first time I enter the Launcher after a reboot. It's "Searching.." or "Connecting.." or "Please wait.." all of the time! I didn't notice it until I started demoing it to some friends. That's when all of the delays start showing up. And it's not about processor speed, it's just crap code and design. Apparently the Sprint guys didn't tell the Launcher guys that the phone was going to cause spontaneous reboots several times a day -- such that going into Launcher will be an agonizing "Please wait.." every. single. time.

    And then there's the insufferable Service Connection Progress dialog. Okay fine, I'll wait a few seconds while it tries to connect. Okay I'll hit OK on a stupid error dialog. But check this out.. No no, I'm in too much of a hurry and hit Cancel during a connection attempt, and it's "Canceling.." for another 5 stupid seconds! Agh!!!!!! What is the purpose of that nonsense. It's canceling in a completely other thread, it already has the result code (user canceled), and yet it's sucking up the UI during the whole time for no purpose.

    Maybe the Treo 600 doesn't "Please wait.." in 10 different places, but I'll bet soup to nuts that it still takes 5 seconds to cancel a connection attempt. Those things bug the hell out of me because they stay in the system forever. Kinda like drive letters or something.
  8. #28  
    Potatoho,

    I don't use a Treo 300, but how often does one usually have to establish a data connection during a day? I only did it 2-3 times a day with my 270. Is it because of this turbo drain issue that people have to keep disconnecting so that battery power would last?

    This thread is turning into a private discussion thread
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by silverado
    Potatoho,

    I don't use a Treo 300, but how often does one usually have to establish a data connection during a day? I only did it 2-3 times a day with my 270. Is it because of this turbo drain issue that people have to keep disconnecting so that battery power would last?

    This thread is turning into a private discussion thread
    Honestly it depends entirely where you live. I live near the tower of terror apparently, and it does everything from drain my battery to cause spontaneous reboots all the time. We have another nice tower which is closer, but Sprint doesn't use it though everyone else does.

    Even their site makes my PC take a dirt nap:
    http://www.sprintsitesusa.com/tower/combinedsearch.cfm
  10. #30  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by silverado

    The fact that email gets delivered very often instantiously does not make email an instant delivery medium. Making such a sharp distinction and putting the two methods in different leagues is buying into marketing hype. "Mission critical email" is an oxymoron.


    Well said. I completely agree; email is riddeled with holes. A previous user reported his "instantanious" email at his work. What he forgets to mention is that his email is most likely traveling on his corporate intranet, and never sees the light of day on the real internet.
  11. #31  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by daftgem
    [B]
    Originally posted by silverado


    Well said. I completely agree; email is riddeled with holes. A previous user reported his "instantanious" email at his work. What he forgets to mention is that his email is most likely traveling on his corporate intranet, and never sees the light of day on the real internet.
    Didn't mention it because it was obvious. My point remains: why are we to settle for a standard instead of making the standard conform to our needs? Just because some people have slow email doesn't mean that those of us accustomed to instant email (basically the whole Blackberry community) should take a giant step backward. At the very least a company trying to sell email solutions to us should realize as much--should, that is, if they want to survive.
  12. #32  
    PDABuzz is reporting now, through a source, that Verizon will indeed be offerring the Treo 600:

    And, according to "Stan", "I spoke to a Verizon Wireless rep in NYC who says that the Handspring Treo 600 will be offered by Verizon Wireless sometime in October. With the best cellular network in NYC, this is excellent news! Looks like Sprint PCS is all but confirmed as a carrier as well (see the Good news snippet.)
    http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread...threadid=47392

    Varipapa, you must be pleased!!
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       #33  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic
    Varipapa, you must be pleased!!


    Yes, I am. Thanks for the news!

    Please continue to support and sign the petition to keep the pressure on Verizon. As one who waited months for the Kyo 7135, I know the meaning of 'will be offered sometime in October'!
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by varipapa




    Yes, I am. Thanks for the news!

    Please continue to support and sign the petition to keep the pressure on Verizon. As one who waited months for the Kyo 7135, I know the meaning of 'will be offered sometime in October'!
    varipapa - I wanted to give you credit for taking the initiative to come up with an online petition for Verizon to support the Treo 600. I've copy-jacked from your idea to create an online petition for T-Mobile to support the Treo 600.
    BAG's Treo-Hip-Lography**Treo 600>SideKick #6****Signup for UPOC-Handspring Treo 600
    <a title="Subscribe to BAG's TextAmerica Blog" href="aim:goim?screenname=blogchangebot&message=subscribe+http://www.bustagroov.textamerica.com"><img src="http://www.neuronwave.com/bcb/bcblogo.gif" border="0" vspace="2" hspace="2"/></a>
  15. #35  
    If this thread is about Verizon, why? Is that service better than the others and if so how?
    As far as Blackberry and push technology, Once again didn't Palm already sign an agreement w/ Balckberry so all of thier units would have the tru push capabilities? Furthermore, since Palm is purchasing Handspring wouldn't this include the T600 line?
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by cque
    If this thread is about Verizon, why? Is that service better than the others and if so how?
    As far as Blackberry and push technology, Once again didn't Palm already sign an agreement w/ Balckberry so all of thier units would have the tru push capabilities? Furthermore, since Palm is purchasing Handspring wouldn't this include the T600 line?
    You're right about RIM, but technically it was Palmsource (not Palmm SG) that made lisencing agreements with RIM and Good Technologies both:

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5327
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4241

    However, I don't know if these lisences have been implemented yet by either Palmsource or any of its lisencees. Perhpas we won't see something substantial until the release of OS 6.

    Also regarding Verizon. Their overall coverage, especially cellular, is one of the best in NA. Thus if you depend on a muti-mode phone, they have one of the best coverge areas. However, The Treo600 will not have any AMPS, only digital. Thus the advantages of Verizon's converage will be lessoned IMO. SprintPCS digital cdma coverage has been historically better than Verizon, but Verizon has been gradually filling in the gap and probably has just as good and if not better coverage in many areas today. The main difference of course is rates, where SprintPCS is much superior...
  17. #37  
    Thx, I've got AT&T tring to figure out if there is the ned to change. Read in another forum that AT&T just started to support T270 so either the T600 will be on AT&T or once agin they will be last to adopt/support this unit w/ a service plan.
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic

    SprintPCS digital cdma coverage has been historically better than Verizon, but Verizon has been gradually filling in the gap and probably has just as good and if not better coverage in many areas today. The main difference of course is rates, where SprintPCS is much superior...
    I don't agree with this. I think it is the other way around, I think Verizon has always had the larger CDMA network and Sprint has been playing catchup (successfully too). But I don't want to get into who has the most CDMA coverage, already did that in another thread. I hope we can agree to just disagree on this one.

    cque,

    check out this thread where the Sprint vs. Verizon coverage issue was debated:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...5&pagenumber=2
  19. #39  
    I believe I mis-understood, I have AT&T which is GSM not CDMA, I thought Verizon was GSM. This would be a moot point to compare them. However, I would be willing to change carriers if the deal is great on voice and data. AT&T's plan i believe is outta control. (Plus i could get the black T600 right JakeE?)
  20. #40  
    Just because some people have slow email doesn't mean that those of us accustomed to instant email (basically the whole Blackberry community) should take a giant step backward.
    I completely agree with Kurt on this. Whether it's because of our generally reliable corporate network or whatever, all I know is, I rely on my BlackBerry to get me every e-mail I receive within a few seconds of my receiving it, as long as it has coverage. In my work (at a daily newspaper), even pulling down e-mails every five minutes would be far too long a delay at many times of day. I love my Treo, but until some Treo version can exactly match BlackBerry functionality, I'm not giving up my BlackBerry.
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