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  1. #21  
    Discussion is all well and good and some of PurpleX' points would be worth discussing if his/her attitude were different. But JakeE, it's become apparent he or she is baiting you. Probably because of all of us who admire the Treo, you are the most effusive and enthused. Just ignore PurpleX or this forum is going to become a scene where you two go back and forth and the rest of us may just as well leave.
  2. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #22  
    ok so asking if his claims about treo 600 has any substance is considered 'baiting' now.

    If hard questions such as "what is treo performance in standard benchmark and applications" is baiting, then treo 600 doesn't have a leg to stand on. Gadget is all about benchmark and usability, not pseudo religious rapture or rambling about design metaphysics.

    and we haven't even start scratching the surface, but the treo fanboys are scurrying in panic and screaming to stop the scrutiny.

    ...yeah... It's a great products allright, as long as you don't ask hard question.

    We don't need no stinkin' features. It's simplicity and zen. That's what the high costs come from. Who needs replaceable battery, BT, big screen or large memory, they are for suckers.

    I got news for you pal'
    you've been had.
  3. #23  
    I'm gonna **** on you purpleX, c'mon over here.

    TheHandlessKing
    Latest moBlog shot:
  4. #24  
    How about a real world test then... I work for sprint and I have access to the both the treo 300 and the hitachi g1000 both of which are smartphones on the sprint pcs network... true while its like comparing apples and oranges I've made my choice and right now I'm sticking to my trusty obsolete treo... its smaller and I can fit it in my front pants pocket... emails are a cinch with snappermail... I'm even sitting by the BBQ pit typing this now. bottom line is I use it cause it works. PPC doesn't.
  5. #25  
    I have used a smartphones running PPC & POS. I have used many brands of smartphones (i.e. Samsung, Toshibia, Tungsten W, & Treo. I originally purchased these devices to combine my PDA and phone into one device.

    I can not ever recall benchmarking any of these devices. I bought these smartphones for usability. Not for how fast they can go from 0 to 60.

    Currently, I feel the Treo does the best job of a combined device (I have used other phones w/ better benchmarks, but this is the best all around package). It has everything to do with design and usability. I am not a Palm or PPC advocate.

    I am looking forward to the Treo 600 because it looks tobe the next step forward.
    Roger
  6.    #26  
    PurpleX:

    I will answer your questions with real answers, but I find it fascinating that you did not answer the one simple question I asked you: If you think the Pocket PC is better why are in the Treo 600 forum?

    You asked: How can you know a product does something well or not if you don't even know standard activity and terms in area of contention? pOffice rountripping issues is what you cited from Bweek articles. Browser has became very significant app in PDA and price is certainly a major criteria for a PDA success.

    My answer: When an interviewer asked Jeff Hawkins if he thought that the original Palm Pilot could really compete with a computer, Jeff responded by saying, “The Palm Pilot is not designed to compete with a computer it is designed to compete with a paper and pencil.” Bill Gates took the opposite approach with the PocketPC. Microsoft tried to make the PockePC a pocket computer, but a computer whether it is a desktop or laptop has a keyboard for input. That is why I believe to a large extent the TabletPC is doomed to fail.

    PurpleX, you got me. I am not very interested in Office Roudtripping. If I am going to work on an office document or surf the web I would much prefer to do in on my 1920x1200 LCD. Not on a handheld device.

    I like the Treo 600 for simple reasons, like the fact that you can very easily input an appointment or to-do with the thumboard. I never was crazy about stylus input. I like the fact that the Treo which includes Datebook 3 features, allows you to natively display dated to-dos on you calendar. I like the fact it has a camera. I like the fact that it has a telephone built into it, which will allow me to send and receive email and surf the web anywhere. I like the fact that the Treo is very small.

    The new ipaq does not come standard with a qwerty keyboard. You can add one on but it makes the device the length of a Frisbee which defeats the purpose of having a handheld.

    PurpleX, in my last reply to you I said “Speaking of a man who today is considered to be classical but was once considered a brilliant modernist, Leonardo Da Vinci said, ‘Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.’”

    Your response was “sure tell that to the sistine chapel restorer.” Dude, have you ever heard of cognitive dissonance? Because you certainly are exhibiting a very high level of it.

    From what I can tell you seem to be consumed with quantity over quality.

    PurpleX, you ended your last response to me by saying: “if you think treo 600 is so superior, what's the worry? you are not trembling are you? tho' I have the feeling we are going to hear massive whining soon.”

    You know you remind me of Bagdad Bob, the former Iraqi Minister of Information, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf. Remember when he said "I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly…Their infidels are committing suicide by the hundreds on the gates of Baghdad. Be assured, Baghdad is safe, protected."

    Oh, I figured it out! You are Baghdad Bob in disguise, but since you got fired, you decided to go to work for Microsoft as their Minister of Information for the PocketPC.
    Last edited by JakeE; 07/05/2003 at 07:32 AM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  7. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #27  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    I will answer your questions with real answers, but I find it fascinating that you did not answer the one simple question I asked you: If you think the Pocket PC is better why are in the Treo 600 forum?
    no, that's not quite right. I think treo 600 is overhyped, specially if compared to PPC. So there is no better place to do it than here.

    Q: .... pOffice rountripping issues is what you cited from Bweek articles.

    A: ... Jeff responded by saying, “The Palm Pilot is not designed to compete with a computer it is designed to compete with a paper and pencil.”
    mmm, so you really don't know the round tripping hype you are referring to.

    Try this:"But I can’t think of any excuse for Microsoft’s failure to remedy Pocket PC’s miserable handling of Microsoft Office files….The mishandling of Word files is shameful…."

    at least if you try to bash PPC try to know what it is that you are bashing.

    I like the Treo 600 for simple reasons, like the fact that you can very easily input an appointment or to-do with the thumboard. I never was crazy about stylus input. I like the fact that the Treo which includes Datebook 3 features, allows you to natively display dated to-dos on you calendar. I like the fact it has a camera. I like the fact that it has a telephone built into it, which will allow me to send and receive email and surf the web anywhere. I like the fact that the Treo is very small.
    all that from holding treo 600 for 5 minutes? or are you referring to current models of treo? In that case, you are full of it. Since i700 can do all the above and have relatively close form factor.

    If you are referring to September release of treo 600, than I only need to point out what the competing product can do close to treo launch date. (PPCPE 2k3, TI Wanda, various smarphones model wordwide)

    You know you remind me of Bagdad Bob, the former Iraqi Minister of Information, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf. Remember when he said "I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly…Their infidels are committing suicide by the hundreds on the gates of Baghdad. Be assured, Baghdad is safe, protected."
    I am not the delusional one saying how treo 600 is the ultimate handheld with capability surpassing other competitor.

    Oh, I figured it out! You are Baghdad Bob, but since you got fired, you decided to go to work for Microsoft as their Minister of Information for the PocketPC.
    sure, let's see if I or you make the biggest hot air claim.

    I am not the one writing pages of article after only a short encounter with a device, then proclaim it's the second coming of handheld.

    coming up next: app capability comparison.
  8.    #28  
    Baghdad Bob:

    Time will tell.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  9. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #29  
    Ok Bob, let's compare your holy grail and sketch it next to what probably will kill it.

    -now. SPV E100, GP600, mio 8380; i700, Lenovo, nokia 6600.
    -Sept. treo600
    -End of year. TI WANDA.

    we'll see how advance this treo 600 actually is. bbl.
  10. njchris's Avatar
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    #30  
    It only takes one person to totally disrupt a forum. One troll, that is. Their purpose is to flame, and inflame. I suggest you not reply to a troll. Stop feeding the troll. It will stop quicker than you think.
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by njchris
    It only takes one person to totally disrupt a forum. One troll, that is. Their purpose is to flame, and inflame. I suggest you not reply to a troll. Stop feeding the troll. It will stop quicker than you think.
    I've said my piece. This entire thread has dissolved into a total waste of time. I'm out of it.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    ok so asking if his claims about treo 600 has any substance is considered 'baiting' now.

    If hard questions such as "what is treo performance in standard benchmark and applications" is baiting, then treo 600 doesn't have a leg to stand on.
    This will be my last post to you on this topic, just so you wouldn't mistake any dead silence for "scurrying". I really would not have bothered to respond, but I don't want to see this sort of thing continually crop up on the various topics here.

    Calm, articulate, measured, mature discussion/compare&contrast of competing/parallel technologies=interesting.

    Attempting to convert someone to your point of view = zzzzz and crosses the line into baiting. Particularly at the rate this sort of thing is chewing up screen real estate.

    If a participant in this forum is intelligent enough to understand and discuss the technology, I would hope they are intelligent enough to see the above distinction. Maturity also comes into play. And security. Nobody's self worth should hinge on converting another person to their point of view to the point it gets to non-stop back and forth. If that is the case, exchange e-mail addresses and take it there. You don't need an audience for this sort of thing.

    If you pull this crap again on another part of the forum, most of us likely will be unwilling to address you. Do not mistake that for being unable to address you. You're not stupid. You know exactly what you are doing.
  13. #33  
    First JakeE, how were you able to test the Treo 600 out? Do you work for Palm/Handspring? From reading your Treo 600 review you seem to be extremely partial to the product for some reason. I'm also kind of curious as to why you felt the need to bash the new HP IPAQ Pocket PC's. I like when people compare products, however I don't like it when they draw conclusions for you. That job should be left up the reader.

    The only way the new Pocket PC's are threats to the Treo 600 is if you pair them with a Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. I currently own a Treo 300 and I have to admit it is both my first PDA and mobile phone. I bought it because I always wanted a PDA and because it was also a phone, why not kill two birds with one stone? Having owned the Treo for a full 10 months now I can come to the conclusion that the Treo is first a phone and a PDA second. Using the Treo 300 as a benchmark I now know what I want in my next PDA/Smartphone. I find that I use the Treo mainly for web browsing and as many Treo users know, Blazer and other 3rd party browsers are not affective in browsing normal websites. So therefore my next device needs to be able to browse websites relatively fast and format the site correctly so I can make sense of the output. The HP IPAQ 2215 has 4 main features that enable it to be great for web browsing, Pocket IE, Bluetooth built in for connect to a mobile phone, and a compact flash slot for connecting to a WIFI access point, and probably the most important a hi-res screen! The Treo 600 only offers a 160 x 160 display and internet access through the wireless provider. I've come to realize that there is a distinct difference between Pocket PC's and Palm OS devices. Pocket PC devices are just that, Pocket (mini) personal computers, whereas Palm devices are mainly organizers with computer like features.

    The Treo 600 looks like it will be a nice product if you are looking for a mobile phone and organizer, but any function beyond that will not be affective other than an email client if you buy snappermail. It's clear that the main role of the device is to be a phone, but even if it had a 320 x 320 display I don't think I would be interested. And the addition of the built in digital camera establishes exactly who the device is targeted to, the same consumer that ran out to but the first phone with a built in camera.

    So I think I'll wait to see if Sprint releases the SonyEricsson T608. If so I'll switch to that mobile phone and pair it will a HP IPAQ 2215. If the T608 doesn't come out I'll probably get the 2215 anyway and switch to T-mobile. I can just give my Treo 300 and Sprint account to a family member to avoid the early term fee.

    BTW have you read any of these reviews...

    http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/arti...n=expand,13980

    http://www.brighthand.com/article/iPAQ_h2210_Review

    I trust the Pocket PC community more than a Business Week writer!
  14.    #34  
    Hi Lemieux66!

    I do not, and have not, ever, worked for Palm or Handspring in any capacity, nor am I affiliated with them in any way except that I own a Treo 270. The way I ended up being able to spend a few hours playing around with and receiving a tour of the Treo 600s features in person was literally a random act of the Universe. My viewing of the Treo 600 was completely above board with a high ranking Handspring executive. I gave them my word of honor I would not divulge certain attributes including who showed it to me.

    You are correct; I am extremely partial to the Treo 600 for many reasons. First of all I am not bashing the Pocket PC; I was simply passing on what The Technology Editor for Business Week Magazine, Stephen H. Wildsrtom said. Wildstrom said, “I’ve never really gotten comfortable with the Microsoft Pocket PC software that ran on them. It has always seemed to try too hard to be a mini-Windows, in the process sacrificing the simplicity that remains the hallmark of Palm-based handhelds...Pocket PCs come with a lot of off-putting complexity…”

    Lemieux66, you said you like it when people compare products, but you said you don’t like it when they draw conclusions for you and that job should be left up to the reader. Unlike most people, I do not lack the courage of my convictions. I said what I said because I believe it.

    I give the Treo a high thumbs up! To borrow a phrase from Ebert, “Way up!” The job is still up to you. Don’t take my word for it. Do your own homework. You can and should still draw you own conclusion.

    Lemieux66, I read both of the reviews you linked. Keep in mind these are not unbiased reviews because both pages have Microsoft Pocket PC banner ads right next to their reviews.

    I have known Jason Dun at PocketPCThoughts.com and Dale Coffing at PocketPCPassion.com for a long time. As a matter of fact I came up with the name PocketPCPassion.com for Dale. I actually thought Jason’s review sounded like on the one hand he was impressed but on the other hand he thought it left a lot to be desired. Jason said, “You’ll definitely want a case for this device – I can’t imagine it taking much of a beating and still looking good afterwards.” Once you add a case to this thing it is going to me a monster!

    Jason then mentioned the problems he had with Bluetooth on the iPaq. He said, “Bluetooth is one of those technologies that I keep trying to love – really! I seem to have a 50/50 success rate with it and I tend not to be successful when I really need to be. The worst part about Bluetooth for me is how arcane the troubleshooting is.” It makes sense to me that Handspring left Bluetooth out until it is no longer arcane.”

    The Treo 600 has a built-in QWERTY keyboard-thumboard. With the new HP iPaq if you want to use a keyboard you have two options: You either carry around a full size keyboard in which case I would rather bring a laptop or you can add on an HP accessory slip on QWERTY thumboard which make the iPaq huge.

    Lemieux66, you said “I currently own a Treo 300 and I have to admit it is both my first PDA and mobile phone. I bought it because I always wanted a PDA and because it was also a phone, why not kill two birds with one stone?” I agree! In case you have never used graffiti, it is awful. If you don’t believe me try to adding a new phone number to a contact record with a new iPaq and then try it on a Treo 600. Even better, try doing it with one hand?

    The iPaq has a 900 mAH battery? Yeah that’s real innovation alright. The Treo 600 has double the capacity at 1800 mAH.

    To address you issue of performance with blazer on your 300 the new blazer version for the Treo 600 is a proxyless browser. This should overcome your challenges.

    There is a Confucius proverb that states, “The paths are many but the way is one.” With regard to handheld PDAs I strongly believe this. There was a time when Microsoft was trying to figure out whether they should have one or two categories of device. In my opinion Microsoft made a terrible mistake when they split their focus and decided to create two distinct platforms; the PocketPC and Smartphones. I found this decision to be particularly bizarre because in Bill Gates wonderful book, “The Road Ahead” he said he believed it was inevitable that we would all end up carrying around ONE device that would do everything. What happened?

    For me personally these are some of the things that are important to me that lead me to conclude that the Treo 600 is better than the PPC: The Treo 600 has a camera, QWERTY keyboard, Stylus free operation, does not need a case and can surf the web anywhere you can get a phone signal. The new iPaq can not do any of these things.

    Lemieux66, the main question I have for you, is what are you going to do? Are you going to get a PocketPC and keep using your Treo as your phone? Do you want to carry two devices around with you; and of course you have to have a case for the iPaq? And you said “I find that I use the Treo mainly for web browsing.” The iPaq PocketPC does not have a phone built in to it so how are you going to surf the web? Rely on Hi-Fi hotspots? With the Treo 600 you can surf the web one-handed without a stylus anywhere you have phone reception.

    You also said, “And the addition of the built in digital camera establishes exactly who the device is targeted to, the same consumer that ran out to but the first phone with a built in camera.” I am not certain what you mean by this, but let me state for the record, as I have before, that I would be willing to bet you that after you have had a camera built in to your PDA for a couple of months you will have found it indispensable. The mere fact that you can take a photo and MMS it around the world in thirty seconds is unbelievable and invaluable.

    At the end of the day it is all about innovation. In the PPC arena I have seen little true innovation. In the Treo 600 I see extreme levels of innovation.

    What do you think Lemieux66? Is the grass greener on the other side? Or is it just all weeds?

    Cheers,
    Jake
    Last edited by JakeE; 07/05/2003 at 08:45 PM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  15. #35  
    JakeE, you should just change your name to "Treo600evangelist"!

    I am thinking your way though... I want all my synced contacts, my full schedule and tasks, my time and billing apps, and other palm progs that I currently use, to be in a great phone. I look forward to having better email and web, but I don't use them much now.
    I want it to be fast, smooth, and easy to use though.

    I will get a 600 when they come out.
    MTT
    Handspring Visor, Palm V, HS Treo 180, HS Treo 90, P1 Treo 600, P1 Treo 650, Palm Treo 700p... still hanging tough with Palm OS
  16.    #36  
    mtt

    There is nothing evangelistic about my passion for the Treo 600—it's purely scientific.

    Jake
    Last edited by JakeE; 07/05/2003 at 09:11 PM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  17. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #37  
    Oh look, an iPAQ expert....

    just updating your expertise:

    1. h2210 900mAh has up time log posted somewhere between 4.5 to 6hrs. continuous. That is a real life battery log, with .mpeg, SNES, PIM or whatever else people do on their handheld, not some dreamy corporate published spec. The spec posted by HP is 12hrs.

    T|T which uses OMAP1510 is rated 10 days, but actual report is around 4.5hr with 900mAh battery. Unless Handspring did a major tweak with OS 5.0, it won't perform significantly different. 1800mAh will give about 8 hrs PDA, without phone capability.


    2. How do you browse with h2210?

    -make connection with your phone, turn on Bluetooth on both devices, put phone on your pocket and start browsing with your PDA. try not to hit somebody while walking and browsing.

    PPC2k3 has browser, treo600 does not. (no Blazer is not a browser)

    -pass through
    -CF (WiFi a/b/g, modem, GPRS
    -Ir


    3. Palm OS is simple?
    And earth is flat as a pan cake. How easy can you change SIM/phone profile with your treo? Can you dig around your 200MB mp3 files easily? how about 50MB worth of office files? Can your treo read attachment without going through 3rd party server for conversion?

    4. Can treo have folding keyboard? hmmm. ..

    5. Biggest treo innovation: how to keep selling the same stuff without adding feature and charging more.
    -------------------------------

    Size comparison

    Small PDA
    XDA = (5.8" x 2.90" x 0.70")
    iPaq 2200 = 8.3 (4.54" x 3.00" x 0.61") 5.1 oz.
    iPaq h1945 = 6.71 (4.46" x 2.75" x 0.50") 4.23 oz.

    Smartphones
    treo 600 = (4.41" x 2.26" x 0.87") ~6 oz.
    TI Wanda = (4.63" x 2.93" x 0.79") 6.1 oz.
    SPVE100 = (4.73" x 1.97" x 0.91") 4.23 0z.
    T610 = ()

    As you can see Treo is about the size of small PDA, it is nowhere near average cellphones.
  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #38  
    Picture Galore:

    The big slide Road map, SPV, treo600, Nokia 6200, SPV2. motos
    http://www.coolsmartphone.com/images/slide.jpg

    SPV photo, various comparison photo
    http://www.howardchui.com/modules.ph...tid=135&page=2
    http://www.howardchui.com/modules.ph...tid=128&page=2

    SE T610 (Yes virginia, treo 600 is **** ugly compare to T610)
    http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/ar...rtphone&id=283
    http://www.howardchui.com/modules.ph...icle&artid=136
  19.    #39  
    purpleX

    Before I respond, let me ask you a few simple questions. Please reply to them directly by first answering Yes or No:

    1. Do you agree with anything I have said? Yes or No? If the answer is Yes, what do you agree with?

    2. Have you ever owned any Palm based PDAs? Yes or No? If Yes, which?

    3. Have you ever ownded any PPC based PDAs? Yes or No? If Yes, which?

    bbl
    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  20. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #40  
    You are not channeling g'funk are you? lol

    let's just say, you dont' have the brain to come up with such questions.
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