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  1. #21  
    Notice how Motorola has stubs too?

    Design is not always abt true function follows form but many atimes it's an intricate balance between the two...

    And in "inventing" a new product, it gets worst... you gotta worry abt not only designers per say but also stupid engineers who practicality rules their mind (if it could be done easlier, GOOD!), bosses who thinks they know design more then designers when they are spotting a Business cert., etc...

    And so this is to say the least... in the whole cycle in inventing a new product...
  2. #22  
    oh ya forgot to mention...

    Motorola has stubs as indemity as most inbuilt antennas are near the earpiece of the phone, it emits radiation...

    and all the hype over that has got motorola edgy...
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by PHO
    battery -

    I use 5000 minutes a month on the phone, not including internet adn PDA time. I easily go through both of the i330 batteries a day.


    The internet HOGS battery to no end (at least it does in teh samsung models.

    So, yes, for some its an issue, an no i am not near an outlet or a car charger to fix it. I'm on the go moving from office to office in the capitol lobbying. .......

    I also use a lot of minutes a month (about 4000). I have to switch batteries on the i330 maybe 2 to three times a week (I don't talk as much as PHO, and I keep it in the cradle when I talk on it at home, since I am usually sitting in front of the computer anyway). I think the only thing that is giving making me wary of punting the i330/i500 from my life forever is the lack of replaceable battery. I guess I'll have to wait and see like everyone else.

    On a different note, glad to see so many i500 people coming over here to check the 600 out. Choice is a wonderful thing!
  4. #24  
    When PocketPC hit market, I bought a CASIO. After 6 months, its out. No MIPS programs available anymore, Battery and screen sucks, and its bulky. Then I bought a Visor. Very happy at it. Carry it daily for almost 2 years. It delivers and well meets my needs.

    Now I am planning to upgrade to a Treo 600 when it is available and use it for 2 years. I cannot predict if Palm is still in the arena after two years. But I dont mind it. I trust only Mr. Hawkins. If he is in arena after 2 years, I will upgrade to another Hawkins design. If not, I will pick up a pencil and a notepad. But never Pocket PC.

    Originally posted by purpleX
    Will there be Palm two years from now? Handspring doesn't even exist anymore if two years rule is applied to previous treo models (270/300)

    They can easily say, we don't support Handspring product anymore. We are new company, we will grandfathered all previous policy within 6 months. Oh btw, we'll give you discount if you upgrade to our newest model.

    ........ anybody want to bet this scenario is going to happen within a year amid continue deterioration of Palm in balance sheet?

    (to be honest everybody does that, just some are more obvious than other.)
  5. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #25  
    Originally posted by UGlee When PocketPC hit market, I bought a CASIO. After 6 months, its out. No MIPS programs available anymore, Battery and screen sucks, and its bulky. Then I bought a Visor. Very happy at it. Carry it daily for almost 2 years. It delivers and well meets my needs.
    Casio battery and screen sucks? lol
    Even by today standard it has one of the better screen quality.

    And I suppose your subsequent Visor has better screen and battery life? (assuming Prism)

    and, btw, where are Visor line and its springboards dohickeys now?

    There is no doubt early models such as E100 have problem in context of overall OS directions, but screen and battery?? That's like complaining Lexus has terrible interior with lousy leathering and wood varnish. From all the things...get real eh...

    Now I am planning to upgrade to a Treo 600 when it is available and use it for 2 years. I cannot predict if Palm is still in the arena after two years. But I dont mind it. I trust only Mr. Hawkins. If he is in arena after 2 years, I will upgrade to another Hawkins design. If not, I will pick up a pencil and a notepad. But never Pocket PC.
    Hey I heard a believe is a nice thing to have. Marx calls it "false hope".

    I am willing to bet, by the time PPC incorporates dual/triple wireless plus dual slots, you'll still be marveling over 160 by 160 screen and thinks bejeweled is the ultimate PDA gaming.

    ... but then again the neanderthals and their advance stone tools thought they rules the planet too once.
  6. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #26  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    I can't imagine they vary too far from the 6 hours they claim. I know the Treo 300 is pretty much what they claimed, and every independant review (cnet.com, etc) claimed that it made due on it's promises with battery power. So basically we have a reason to believe Handspring. It also makes sense in comparison with the battery in the Treo 300.
    this is the first Handspring phone with ARM. Ever wonder why they are only quoting the "phone talk time" only and never include estimate of PDA aspect or the combined time? Tho' to be honest no other models includes such estimate either. But knowing what we know about T|T and other recent Palm product battery performance.... I'd be plenty cautious swallowing tall claims.

    Then I guess I can't buy any Palm device now. At some point you have to make a stand and pick up something. Most of the people getting a smart phone based on the palm OS don't have a choice of 6.0 and don't currently have 5+, so this is an upgrade of nearly all around. It will be at least before you see a smart phone will OS 6 (I don't think any are even announced), so OS 5 is not obsolete.
    It's called Flash ROM, in case Handspring is telling you it doesn't exist. And just because you like running obsolete products, doesn't mean the general public likes it too.

    But then again observing from the glacial addition to OS 5.0 apps, probably you are right. Palm OS never really develops new apps in the past 3 years. So having OS 6.0 is probably as usefull as having OS 4.2.

    Who need novelty item like native office apps, video conferencing, multimedia streaming, or God forbids online gaming. Wordsmith and Datebk5.0 are all a true gadget would need.

    You are right, I suddenly see the light. Zire m150 is the handheld to have!

    These are smartphones that run on the Palm OS? If they don't run on Palm then the software available for them is suspect.
    really? I suspect the earth is flat too.

    does POS has these softwares. (and please check the hype before starting the cheerleader pom pom. These are not DTG or whatever other outdated software from 3 years ago)

    http://www.softmaker.de/tmpdetail_en.htm
    http://www.westtek.com/clearvue.htm
    http://www.cywrensystems.com/cyproj.html
    http://www.conduits.com/products/slides/
    http://www.pocketinformant.com/gall.php
    http://www.pocketcad.com/
    http://www.tomtom.com/products/platf...=31&Language=1
    http://www.rainer-keuchel.de/wince/maxima-ce.html
    http://www.mpegtv.com/wince/pockettv/
    http://www.pdarcade.com/modules.php?...ontent2&id=224

    Pick any software in this freebie list for PPC, and try to find the POS equivalent.
    http://www.pocketpcfreewares.com/ind...=9&sortby=date

    Good luck, you have 3 years to write them from ground up and maybe achieve parity of features.

    (don't worry about trying to find equivalent, I have checked and none of their equivalent apps with matching features exists. There are parodical attemps however)

    really? so, can you point me where I can find Palm OS equivalent of
    Even more importantly, I don't know anyone with a BT device, so what would I do with Bluetooth? I mean, seriously, what does BT do for me? I'll give you the wireless headsets are kind of cool, but way overpriced for what they are. If Bluetooth becomes important to me, I am at least assured that's possible and probable that I can add it (remember that it's a "strong possibility" that BT comes on some versions of the Treo 600).
    Just because POS is so primitive that it has almost no support to wireless networking, doesn't mean It won't finally catch up and find use of it. (but then again it probably never will)

    BT is just like any form of wireless networking. Its use is general, anything from basic file transfer and point to point connection all the way to ad hoc connection to other gadgets or gaming. There is of course the mundane quick connection to the net along with the usual round of usual suspects. (IM, browser, VPN, email)

    but why do BT when you can bleed through your nose and pay GPRS connection right?...
  7. #27  
    I am using Visor NEO. B/W screen. Great visibility outdoor. Also great visibility indoor after I installed 6 25w bulbs in my room. Its the simplest solution for screen visibility for me.

    I know you are a PPC diehard, just as I am a Palm diehard. Absolutely Pocket PC is more powerful. But I do not need too much power, I need solutions. In my case, 6 bulbs are more practical than any complex LCD technologies.

    I remembered how excited I was about handheld technologies several years ago when I dived into PDA communities. At that time, I believed the PDA is our futural computing platform. Now, however, I changed my idea.

    Most technology guy believes that technologies create market and industry. For example, PC and Internet. It's right. But if extending that expression into "technologies create user requirement", its totally wrong.

    Many people buy a PDA cause they need an address book or datebook or memo pad. Others buy a RIM cause they need email. And others choose a MP3 enabled device cause they carry a walkman daily and they prefered a combo solution. They buy a PDA because the PDA meet their need rather than creating their need.

    Pocket PC is more powerful than a palm. But what does the extra power do? movie player? Their are some stand-alone movie players in market, but fewer people choose them. Its not a huge market. document editor? Yes, there are a lot of people need to work on their document here and there, but how many of them wish to do the work in such an inefficiently way? On such a small screen using a crippled input method? OK, even if some people prefered this way, could the community is large enough to support an industry?

    In the other hand, PDA is now more targetting at Consumer Electronics market rather than a Computing device. CE arena is so different than computing industry. Manufactures strive to make their device funtion better and better, rather than make them more and more powerful. Computing power helps to do so, but not every improvement depends on computing power. For example, Nokia makes the phone operation more intuitive, removes the protruding antenna and got a big success. Such improvement has nothing to do with the computing power. Right?
    Ericsson definity outperforms Nokia in technologies, but it is a loser. Furthermore, have you ever heard any mphone reviews benchmarked the phone's computing speed?

    Computing Power is NOT everything.

    You have mentioned some advantages of PPC in your previous posts. I would like to mention some disadvantages here:

    1. Not as intuitive as palm. For a computer user, PPC is okey, but most people, palm is better. When I taught my mother how to use a pocket pc as a e-book reader, I told her how to launcher a program, how to close it, how to switch between them, how to open a file, what is the file format, what is directory. But when I taught my mother how to use a palm as a ebook reader, I just say, hit the icon and choose the book.

    2. Win32 architecture is bulky and cumbersome. Palm is more efficient and more agile. Many apps on Pocket PC is unbelievably slow, say, MS Reader. Cannot imagine how MS realized it. OS5 palm is much faster in most traditional PDA apps, and keep in mind that there are a simulation layer in Palm (PACE) translating 68k instructions into ARM ones. With more and more usage, PPC gets slower and slower due to memory leakage. On palm, never. The storage and memory heap usage on palm is far better implemented than that on Pocket PC.

    3. Small market for so many licensees. IPAQ is the only Pocket PC making profit on international market, at the cost that casio dies. Toshiba has merely 5% market share and make almost no profit. Now Dell is coming. I dont know if dell will kill ipaq or they both survives. But other manufacturers, such as toshiba, nec, viewsonic etc. will be blown away in consumer market.

    4. The future of Pocket PC? MS has too many OS product line: Windows, HPC, PPC, smartphone, XBOX etc. It's stupid to maintain such a long product line for a long term. Now HPC is destined to die. If the smartphone get a success as most analyst predicted, PPC will have the smallest market comparing to other OS product. Keep in mind that PPC OS never profit since its launch, and the whole PDA market is shrinking rather than inflating. Where will PPC go? Meanwhile, MS wont let a ppc evolve to a notebook replacement, no matter how many third-party developpers or licensee strive to do so. In wince 2.11 era, several sub-notebook emerged in market and MS killed them by locking the screen resolution of PPC to 240x320. MS wont let PPC apps hurt their windows/office market.

    Palm is a small company, while ms and its licensees are all giants. Any of them can kill palm if they want to do so at any cost. But, they are in a commercial world. They strive for profit rather than a championship. Right?

    Originally posted by purpleX


    Casio battery and screen sucks? lol
    Even by today standard it has one of the better screen quality.

    And I suppose your subsequent Visor has better screen and battery life? (assuming Prism)

    and, btw, where are Visor line and its springboards dohickeys now?

    There is no doubt early models such as E100 have problem in context of overall OS directions, but screen and battery?? That's like complaining Lexus has terrible interior with lousy leathering and wood varnish. From all the things...get real eh...


    Hey I heard a believe is a nice thing to have. Marx calls it "false hope".

    I am willing to bet, by the time PPC incorporates dual/triple wireless plus dual slots, you'll still be marveling over 160 by 160 screen and thinks bejeweled is the ultimate PDA gaming.

    ... but then again the neanderthals and their advance stone tools thought they rules the planet too once.
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #28  
    So to basically, you can't back up what you are saying about PPC application, screen and battery, then backpaddle and start rambling about unrelated stuff, like the state of the economy, consumer habit, morality plays of corporate rivalry and some futuristic musing about what a company can or cannot do in the future.

    nice.

    ... full of it too.

    (but At least you don't toss around word like universal design or bridge to the future.)

    I start to get the feeling what the major profile of treo user are: sucker.

    PS. why do you think the link I include contains almost no multimedia apps but heavy duty office apps? (but yet you still rambling and imply POS has better office apps. This is truely amazing)
  9. #29  
    Screen:

    Visor NEO: B/W STN
    CASIO EM500: Color TFT, no outdoor visibility

    Battery:

    Visor NEO: AAA Alkaline or NiMH.
    CASIO EM500: less than 5 hours

    Originally posted by purpleX
    So to basically, you can't back up what you are saying about PPC application, screen and battery, then backpaddle and start rambling about unrelated stuff, like the state of the economy, consumer habit, morality plays of corporate rivalry and some futuristic musing about what a company can or cannot do in the future.

    nice.

    ... full of it too.

    (but At least you don't toss around word like universal design or bridge to the future.)
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #30  
    Color screen >< sucks
    B/W screen == sucks



    And not even Palm inc believes B/W is the thing to put on their handheld. The only reason Plam crowd says color screen sucks is because Palm didn't have the technology yet at that time to do color screen. Their best shot is Prism and IIIc, and we know how those go in annal of botch gadget.

    And remember treo 600 uses transreflective color. not exactly the latest technology either, considering the latest and greatest phone will either use semi transreflective or OLED.

    but hey... never under estimate mass delusion.
  11. #31  
    You are always emphasizing a nucleus is more powerful than a bullet. I admit it. But I just need a bullet, understand?

    Originally posted by purpleX
    So to basically, you can't back up what you are saying about PPC application, screen and battery, then backpaddle and start rambling about unrelated stuff, like the state of the economy, consumer habit, morality plays of corporate rivalry and some futuristic musing about what a company can or cannot do in the future.

    nice.

    ... full of it too.

    (but At least you don't toss around word like universal design or bridge to the future.)

    I start to get the feeling what the major profile of treo user are: sucker.

    PS. why do you think the link I include contains almost no multimedia apps but heavy duty office apps? (but yet you still rambling and imply POS has better office apps. This is truely amazing)
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #32  
    then stop comparing which bullet can kill bigger tank.

    Just because you have a spit ball doesn't mean you can call it non lethal form of warfare.

    if you make comparison claim about hardware capability, softwares features or price performance, then you better bring real items instead of pranching around with what you want to believe.

    If you want to believe your Visor is the best PDA for you, then don't make claim Visor is the best PDA in the market, because You are NOT the market.

    If you think B/W screen is the gratest invention man ever put in PDA, then that's just YOU, not the general public.

    if you think treo 600 is the ultimate smartphone, it's just YOU who trying hard to believe the spin, not the market.

    if you say, you don't need this or that feature in a PDA, that is just YOU who have lack of imagination, not the general market.
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by UGlee

    4. The future of Pocket PC? MS has too many OS product line: Windows, HPC, PPC, smartphone, XBOX etc. It's stupid to maintain such a long product line for a long term. Now HPC is destined to die. If the smartphone get a success as most analyst predicted, PPC will have the smallest market comparing to other OS product. Keep in mind that PPC OS never profit since its launch, and the whole PDA market is shrinking rather than inflating. Where will PPC go? Meanwhile, MS wont let a ppc evolve to a notebook replacement, no matter how many third-party developpers or licensee strive to do so. In wince 2.11 era, several sub-notebook emerged in market and MS killed them by locking the screen resolution of PPC to 240x320. MS wont let PPC apps hurt their windows/office market.

    Palm is a small company, while ms and its licensees are all giants. Any of them can kill palm if they want to do so at any cost. But, they are in a commercial world. They strive for profit rather than a championship. Right?

    UGlee,

    Very nice insights. I completely agree with you regarding the M$ future intentions with PPC2003. I really don't see M$ pursuing the advancement of its PPC line at the expense of it lucrative PC/tablet market dominance. Frankly, as much as some M$ diehards might not want to admit, I don't think BG puts much importance to the pda segment at all. Of course, smartphones are a completely different enchilada. However, M$ monopolistic ways won't cut butter with headset OEM's, wireless providers etc. Furthermore, there lots of potent players like Nokia, Symbian consortium, linux that won't make life easy. As far as PalmOS and the treo ar concerned, they must focus on their specific niche for long term success. The potential market for smartphones is soo huge (350-400 million headset/yr by 07) that achieving even 2-3% would be great success for the treo line...

    Anyway back to the original topic: The negatives are I percieve ar basicaly the same as others have metioned. 160x160 screen, and lack of replaceable battery.
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    Color screen >< sucks
    B/W screen == sucks



    And not even Palm inc believes B/W is the thing to put on their handheld. The only reason Plam crowd says color screen sucks is because Palm didn't have the technology yet at that time to do color screen. Their best shot is Prism and IIIc, and we know how those go in annal of botch gadget.

    And remember treo 600 uses transreflective color. not exactly the latest technology either, considering the latest and greatest phone will either use semi transreflective or OLED.

    but hey... never under estimate mass delusion.
    First of all the Treo600 has a STN screen, not a transflective. It would be helpful if you at least knew what you were trolling about ska/vispi/blueanon! Secondly, you keep forgetting this is not a pda for goodness sakes! Handspring has made it obvious this is a phone-first device with pda functionality. IF you got that fact into your block head, maybe you would understand no one really cares about editting all their office docs or watching full length movie on a puny phone screen. Thirdly, why the hell are you here? Does the popularity of the Treo600 frighten you so much that you made it you mission to wage one-man jihad against everything treo everywhere?!! You are a very pathetic individual indeed...
  15. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #35  
    How about checking what STN and what transreflective mean?

    or did Handspring told you not to check?

    PS. inc ase you haven't notice , treo 600 is only ONE product. (tho it is true that treo600 is everything treo. It's their last best shot to hold on to the 60K/Q market)
  16. #36  
    OK, Man. To satisfy you, I acknowledge that you are a rocker and I am a sucker. But it is so unfortunate for a rocker living in a sucker world.

    Talking about LCD technologies, I am an expert in this area. I understand almost all kinds of flat-panel displays, including Si-based luminescent material, liquid crystal display, plasma display panel, organic LED, III-V compound semiconductors, field-emission material, as well as the so-called e-ink tech. Its my major. In the past 2 years, I was working on low-temperature polycrystalline silicon materials using for TFT drivers.

    I understand technologies. But I prefer to choose the right technologies for certain applications.

    Originally posted by purpleX
    How about checking what STN and what transreflective mean?

    or did Handspring told you not to check?

    PS. inc ase you haven't notice , treo 600 is only ONE product. (tho it is true that treo600 is everything treo. It's their last best shot to hold on to the 60K/Q market)
  17. #37  
    I hear that a new breed of cancer drug works by eliminating the flow of blood to a tumor. Of course without something to munch on the cancer will die and everyone is happy. I think the same thing happens with trolls. Stop posting (I'm already aware that this is of course a post, but except for this I've kept to my personal pledge not to respond.)
  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #38  
    Originally posted by UGlee
    Talking about LCD technologies, I am an expert in this area. I understand almost all kinds of flat-panel displays, including Si-based luminescent material, liquid crystal display, plasma display panel, organic LED, III-V compound
    Well mister technology.

    there is such thing as incorporating cutting edge technology as oppose to just "do the best".

    All big players are going gaga trying to put the best screen, size, resolution, latest tech screen, they bent backward trying to fit things like VGA, OLED, screen etc..

    and this supposedly "advance" smartphone" is using a 160x160 STN screen? .......... come onnn...... isn't it a bit retro?

    do you actually believe that is the best they can do?

    -------------
    Ok, here is a phone with QVGA screen on a wireless phone. (and space time continuum doesn't rapture like Handspring claim.)
    http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/artic...top/14517.html
  19. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #39  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    I hear that a new breed of cancer drug works by eliminating the flow of blood to a tumor. Of course without something to munch on the cancer will die and everyone is happy. I think the same thing happens with trolls. Stop posting (I'm already aware that this is of course a post, but except for this I've kept to my personal pledge not to respond.)
    I've heard about ostrich hide their small head in the ground thing, but never an actual primate.

    this is a big day in science.
  20. #40  
    Transflective/Reflective TFT definitely has better color saturation and contrast than a reflective STN. But it cost a lot and ourdoor visibility is poor.

    STN consumes less power and cost far less than TFT. But it has a limitation in resolution. STN use passive driving mode. It cannot reach a hi-res otherwise the contrast will deteriorate dramatically and ghost effect will be severe.

    If multimedia apps is more important for you, go Samsung i500/700. But more Treo guys is not interested with such apps. They prefer a longer surf time.

    a simple comparison:

    samsung sgh i500:

    300MHz CPU, TFT, 1100mAH

    samsung sgh i700:

    300MHz CPU, a much larger TFT, 1100mAH

    Treo 600

    144MHz CPU, STN, 1800mAH

    I think you can predict the difference of battery life for surfing. They are designed and optimized for different apps and usage.

    Furthermore, Treo 600 is not a high-end product. It's trying to cut every penny possible to make it a main stream product.

    Originally posted by purpleX


    Well mister technology.

    there is such thing as incorporating cutting edge technology as oppose to just "do the best".

    All big players are going gaga trying to put the best screen, size, resolution, latest tech screen, they bent backward trying to fit things like VGA, OLED, screen etc..

    and this supposedly "advance" smartphone" is using a 160x160 STN screen? .......... come onnn...... isn't it a bit retro?

    do you actually believe that is the best they can do?
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