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  1.    #1  
    I have been looking for a phone/PDA combo for some time now, and have looked at many different options. After much searching, I decided on the Kyocera 7135 but I need to wait for my Telus contract to expire (I'm in Vancouver, BC, Canada). The Kyocera has been released up here on the Bell Mobility network, I'm willing to jump ship to get the phone.

    Now, a wrench has been thrown into the works with the upcoming release of the Treo 600. I heard that the US release date on the Treo 600 is November 2003, is that correct? Even so, I had to wait 5 months after the US release date for the Kyocera 7135 to get to Canada. I'm thinking a similar thing will happen to the Treo. Also, I have no idea which carriers in Canada will be offering the phone, any news on that? Since it will be available both in CDMA and GSM I hope that more carriers than just Rogers will offer it. I will not switch to Rogers to get the phone, their network sucks.

    So, assuming that the Treo is available when my contract comes up, I still need to decide if it's the phone for me. The major differences I see between the two:

    Kyocera:
    + flip design - protects the screen
    + replaceable battery

    Treo:
    + fast StrongARM processor (144 MHz vs the 33 MHz of the Kyo)
    + Palm OS 5

    I don't care about the camera, but the fact that the Treo does not have a replaceable battery is a big drawback in my mind. I always buy a spare battery for my phone when I purchase the phone. With the Treo, if you are out and it runs out of juice, both your phone and PDA are dead until you can recharge them. This is not good. With the Kyo, I could just pop in a fresh battery and I'm ready to go. The current processor and OS are a big plus for the Treo however, my Palm Vx has a faster processor than the Kyo does, and the thing is several years old.

    Tough choice. But if the Treo is available on Bell or Telus in a reasonable amount of time then I can't see what else I would buy.

    Any comments or answers to the above questions? Thanks for the input.

    Mike
  2. #2  
    The Treo 600 will have an external battery sled of some sort as an option so if you are willing to add a bit of bulk to the phone, that may be something to consider.

    These are the reasons why I will likely not be upgrading to the Treo 600 from my Kyocera 7135 (wil make a final decision after I get a chance to play with the Treo 600):

    - no top caller ID
    - no mp3 ringtones
    - no Stowaway keybopard that can be used during a data call
    - no removeable battery
    - no 320x320 screen (I know, 7135 doesn't have one either but I've had 4 160x160 screens already and I'm not dropping $500 again for another 160x160 screen)
    - no true hard phone keypad (the mini one doesn't count)
    - poor reception? (my Treo 300 wasn't too good at this, I hope HS addressed this issue in the Treo 600)

    OTOH, PalmOS5, a camera, and the speed of Sprint's Vision network are making the decision somewhat difficult. I guess I'll just wait it out and see.
  3. #3  
    No one really knows when the 600 will be released, other than Handspring and there partners.

    Handspring only says that it wil be released in the fall. We, the ppl who want one, hope it is early fall and not late fall.

    The current treos dont have a replaceble batteries, but there are options to charge the phone on the fly. If you are going to carry an extra battery, you can carry one of these. BTW, the 600 come with better battery life.

    One other you may want to consider is the Key board. One has one the other doesn't.

    I'm sure which ever one you get, you will be enviuos of the other.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
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    #4  
    More advantages for the Treo 600:

    Built-in Thumbboard If you use direct entry (as opposed to synchronization with a PC) to update your PDA, the thumbboard is a huge advantage. If you use your PDA/phone for email or SMS messages, again, the thumbboard is a huge advantage.

    D-button replaces jog wheel and stylus I know it's not called a D-button, but the navigational button allows you to go left, right, up, down, and select, all in one button. It replaces the stylus, which is huge. Locating the navigational button in the center of the phone allows you to retrieve, navigate, and dial with one hand.
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    #5  
    Originally posted by Marty1781
    - no Stowaway keybopard that can be used during a data call
    -
    You're kidding, right? The whole point of the Treo is the built-in keyboard.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by Iceman6

    You're kidding, right? The whole point of the Treo is the built-in keyboard.
    No, I'm not kidding and if you took a moment to think about it, you would understand. When I travel on short business trips, I like to leave my laptop behind. However, trying to poke out anything but a short email on any thumbboard is extremely time consuming and frustrating. The Stowaway keybpoard gives me the option of carrying a full-size keyboard in a compact design w/o the bulk of a laptop. I can respond at length to any email I wish. Thumbboards are great for day-to-day data entry, IMing, and quick email replies but for anything more than a short reply, I need a keyboard and I don't want to carry my laptop around everytime I travel. Thumbboards are obviously not full-size keyboard replacements. There are just certain things you can't do (at least not very efficiently) with a thumbboard (like reply at length to an email) that are best suited for use with a full-size keyboard.
    Last edited by Marty1781; 07/01/2003 at 12:37 PM.
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    #7  
    Originally posted by Marty1781


    No, I'm not kidding and if you took a moment to think about it, you would understand. When I travel on short business trips, I like to leave my laptop behind. However, trying to poke out anything but a short email on any thumbboard is extremely time consuming and frustrating. The Stowaway keybpoard gives me the option of carrying a full-size keyboard in a compact design w/o the bulk of a laptop. I can respond at length to any email I wish. Thumbboards are great for day-to-day data entry, IMing, and quick email replies but for anything more than a short reply, I need a keyboard and I don't want to carry my laptop around everytime I travel. Thumbboards are obviously not full-size keyboard replacements. There are just certain things you can't do (at least not very efficiently) with a thumbboard (like reply at length to an email) that are best suited for use with a full-size keyboard.
    That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
  8.    #8  
    Originally posted by Felipe
    The current treos dont have a replaceble batteries, but there are options to charge the phone on the fly. If you are going to carry an extra battery, you can carry one of these. BTW, the 600 come with better battery life.
    Most phones have travel charger, desktop charger, car charger avaiable, howerver there are many times when you can't sit there and wait for a charge. If I'm going from meeting to meeting and using my PDA a lot, I can't just sit somewhere with the thing plugged into a wall. Also, when taking a cab, does it make sense to ask the cabbie to plug my phone into his lighter so I can charge it?

    I want the ability to swap batteries and go about my busniess as usual, not plan ahead and look for a power source. Any way you look at it, charging options are not a replacement for a battery swap.

    I suppose some big sled would be an option, but not a very good one. Every phone has some drawbacks, this is the Treo's biggest in my opinion.

    Mike
  9. #9  
    Not an exact comparison in choosing btw a 7135 and a Treo300, but the overall concepts are similar.

    What I used to like about the 6035, and how the Treo overcame them:

    1. Battery life. Hasn't been a big deal to me, not at all like I thought it would be. And yes, I had two batteries for the 6035 - the whole thing. Bottom line - if you're near a car or wall socket at least once a day, you'll be fine. I did buy one of the $9.95 AA battery charger things, but I don't use it as much as I thought I would.

    2. The Stowaway keyboard. I LOVED my Stowaway. Loved it. Thought I could never do without it. Now, I could never go back, since the Treo has its thumbboard always there. No more do I have to lug around that crazy neoprene case thing to hold the keyboard and cheesy adapter thing. No way would I ever use an external typewriter - having the thumbboard always there fundamentally changes how you will use the device.

    3. Hard keypad. Thought I would miss that. Nope - not at all. Being able to dial one or two letters on the (always there) thumbboard and bring up that contact means I almost never use the dialpad.

    4. Thought I wouldn't dig the big flip thing on the Treo. It's not bad at all, and certainly has some function. But, I'm really looking forward to the updated Treo600 candy bar style - since, again, the thumbboard is always there, having it available via no flip will make things much simpler.

    There are a million reasons I love the Treo, and I miss nothing on the 6035. The Treo and the Kyo devices are simply different - and the main issue is the thumbboard. I needed a Blackberry-type device, and I haven't missed the Kyo at all. Not everyone has the same needs, though...some who need a phone primarily, with minimal data entry/text msg'ing/IM/email, etc would probably do fine with the 7135. That's not me, though.
  10. #10  
    I completely understand, I am trying to make the same decision but for me it would mean changing over to a new carrier as well and I am truly torn. If our legislators would get on the ball and allow us to take our phone number with us between carriers, I would already be changing (but that's for another thread)

    As far as the hardware itself here is what I came up with:

    Treo 600
    + Faster processor
    + More RAM (I'm almost full on 16 meg on my 270)
    + SDIO slot (not sure if the Kyocera's is SDIO or just SD)
    + OS5
    + Better thumb pad (I like the 4 way rather than the 2 way)
    + Camera - after thinking about it, I kind of like the idea...but it's not a deal breaker for me)
    + Upgrade $ like when I converted from the Visorphone to Treo, nothing from Verizon (our Kyocera carrier)

    - NOT OUT YET!!!! (this is a big one for me if you can't tell...I need to maintain the alpha gadget status in my office)
    - No flip lid - I'm sure there will be a good case, but that's extra
    - No graffiti area, but I think I can live without that
    - Need 3rd party software for MP3 and voice recording...extra $$$

    Kyocera
    (switch the negatives and positives around...no more typing)

    that's enough for now....I'm sure I'll think of something later

    Hope that helps, thanks for letting me rant for a while.
    Good luck....I think I'll wait for the 600....it's gong to be a long summer!!!!!
    Geek.....me????!!!!
    Thanks for the compliment, geeks run the world after all!
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by trainman

    + SDIO slot (not sure if the Kyocera's is SDIO or just SD)
    The 7135's slot is SDIO. The CNET review that states that it isn't is wrong.
  12. #12  
    I thought I read somewhere the Treo 600 will have a piggyback battery available that clips onto the back. That would add bulk, but on most days you probably won't need it.

    How is the phone/pda integration on the Kyocera? I don't recall offhand, but I remember reading some forum discussion (elsewhere) that it was not quite as extensive as what the Treo 600's is being described as. Is that true? Of course, without an actual Treo out to compare, we all would have to base such a comparison on a lot of presumptions and assumptions, at this point.
  13.    #13  
    First, The Kyocera slot is SDIO.

    Second, you have to keep in mind that the Kyocera is already out (and has been since last year in the US), so the devices are essentially one year apart in release and you can assume that software/hardware will be better in the new device. By the time the Treo is available, I would expect to see savings on the Kyocera so then it will be a choice between a $500 USDTreo or a $250 USD Kyocera (just guessing here).

    The Kyocera software is integrated with the phone, but it sounds like Handspring has taken it to the next level.

    One can assume that one year after the release of the Treo 600, a new/better phone will be available.

    A tough choice, but since I have to wait for my contract to run out anyway, I should be able to get a bunch of real-world opinions when this phone is released.

    Mike
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by monkeywithacold
    I thought I read somewhere the Treo 600 will have a piggyback battery available that clips onto the back. That would add bulk, but on most days you probably won't need it.

    How is the phone/pda integration on the Kyocera? I don't recall offhand, but I remember reading some forum discussion (elsewhere) that it was not quite as extensive as what the Treo 600's is being described as. Is that true? Of course, without an actual Treo out to compare, we all would have to base such a comparison on a lot of presumptions and assumptions, at this point.
    Its as good as any smartphone I've owned. Samsung I300, Treo 300, Kyocera 7135, they all did a good job of integrating phone and Palm. Each has its own pluses and minuses, one of them will excel where the other doesn't. I was pleased with the phone/Palm integration on all of them.
  15. #15  
    I thought I might share my recent experience (~ 2 months ago) in choosing the Treo 300 over the Kyo 7135.

    I had had my eye on the 300 for a while (already had a 180 on T-Mo). The fast, always-on data, the color screen, and the backlit keyboard were the things that attracted me from my 180. But they didn't (to me) justify buying a new device.

    Then I moved, and T-mobile's coverage in my new home didn't cut it. I was pretty sure Sprint and Verizon would be OK. So I was in the market for a new smartphone.

    Although as I said I had had my eye on the 300 for a while, here are the reasons I took a good look at the 7135 before committing:

    -SDIO slot
    -multimedia (MP3, MP3 ringtones)
    -much, much, much more solid feel (I had lost a 180 to the broken flip lid problem)

    The reaons I went with the Treo instead were:

    -thumbboard (I loved it on the 180 - much faster than Graffiti. I can understand the earlier poster's need for a Stowaway, but I don't need to compose anything of that length with my Treo.)
    -Sprint's data pricing structure - can't beat unlimited for $10/mo. on top of any voice plan. Verizon's plans sucked in my opinion - I would have to pay $99/mo. for unlimited data, WITHOUT any voice minutes included. Ouch.
    -Phone price - at the time the Kyo had just been released on Verizon and was more expensive than the older 300, which I got from Amazon for just $150 after rebates.
    -Phone/PDA software integration - I really feel like Handspring did a great job integrating the PDA and phone software. I can't say that I used the Kyo extensively enough to really review it, but it didn't feel as slick to me when I played with it.

    So, as you can see, for me the Treo 600 is the dream device: it retains the attributes that led me to choose the 300 over the Kyo, and adds the things that tempted me about the Kyo - expansion, multimedia, no breakable flip lid. Plus, a much faster processor and more memory. Finally, a camera (at first I thought cell phone cameras were a stupid idea, but now I find myself in everyday situations where it would be nice to be able to snap a photo and email it to someone - and I don't carry a camera with me the way I carry my phone). And they've added the 5-way D-pad, and improved the software even more.

    Can you tell I'm drooling over the 600? Not as much as Jake, maybe, but still psyched. Are there drawbacks? Sure - 160x160 and no replacable battery are the ones that strike me right now, and I'm sure a few more will come to light as more people get their hands on the device. But to be honest these aren't big issues with me anyway, and these were deliberate design decisions by Handspring that involved tradeoffs on battery life or device size. I'm not sure I would really choose to change them given those consequences.

    So that's pretty much why I would (will) do the Treo 600 over the Kyo 7135. But, as many have said, each person's needs are different.

    -'dog
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by skydog

    -Sprint's data pricing structure - can't beat unlimited for $10/mo. on top of any voice plan. Verizon's plans sucked in my opinion - I would have to pay $99/mo. for unlimited data, WITHOUT any voice minutes included. Ouch.
    Since the Treo 600 will definitely be compatible with Verizon, you may wish to consider them as well for your Treo 600 service provider (especially since Verizon will activate just about any US CDMA phone regardless if they carry it or not). Verizon has recently changed all their America's Choice, Local, and National Single Rate plans to automatically include Express Network at no extra charge, useage just simply comes out of your minutes, makes no difference if its voice, high speed, or low speed data. Their unlimited data plan is now $45 for smartphones as well (Sprint is still obviously cheaper though). After using Express Network though, I feel Vision is definitely faster but Verizon's voice network is larger so I guess go with whoever suits your needs best.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by trainman
    + SDIO slot (not sure if the Kyocera's is SDIO or just SD)
    Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between 'SDIO' and 'SD'.
  18.    #18  
    SD (Secure Digital) is for memory only.

    SDIO (Secure Digital Input/Output) is for IO operations which allow you to hook up such things as a Bluetooth adapter, WiFi, GPS, digital camera, etc.

    Mike
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by Marty1781


    Since the Treo 600 will definitely be compatible with Verizon, you may wish to consider them as well for your Treo 600 service provider (especially since Verizon will activate just about any US CDMA phone regardless if they carry it or not).
    AS far as i can tell the Treo will only be dual band digital, CDMA version) no analog and that makes it a lot less desireable on Verizon's network. Verizon had a huge network footprint, but much of it is based on older, analog pieces and the Treo simply will not work.
    Carl
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by CarlGalgano


    AS far as i can tell the Treo will only be dual band digital, CDMA version) no analog and that makes it a lot less desireable on Verizon's network. Verizon had a huge network footprint, but much of it is based on older, analog pieces and the Treo simply will not work.
    Verizon's CDMA footprint is at least as big as Sprint's CDMA network, likely bigger. So whatever coverage you get with the Treo 600 on Sprint, you will likely get that and then some with the Treo 600 on Verizon. Both cover major metropolitan areas great but Verizon's CDMA coverage tends to extend a little further than Sprint's. I remember one example someone pointed out. Look at the coverage maps for NY state. Sprint's map looks like they took a highlighter and highlighted the major interestates while Verizon's CDMA coverage covers significantly more. Indeed, Verizon isn't touting their "great" network because of how much analog coverage they have, its their large CDMA network that has earned them the reputation of having the largest digital CDMA network in the US.
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