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  1. #81  
    leftyStrat wrote:

    I still have yet to figure out WHAT IS THE FASCINATION WITH A PHONE THAT TAKES PICTURES? Is this simply because it CAN?


    The phone is incidental. I used to keep my eyemodule2 in my Visor Prism all the time, and I loved the ability to not only take pictures, but be able to show them to others right away. It's much more fun to have a way to carry any number of pictures on you than having to stuff additional prints in your wallet. Regular digicams like my Elph have screens the size of a postage stamp, and aren't as good for showing to people.


    And phones that play MP3's - they're just not at the point where you'd have enough memory to play a serious amount of them (hence the Ipod, et al).

    A $80-100 256 Mb SD card can hold four albums' worth of high-quality MP3, which is far more music than I rotate in a day. Yes, that's only a fraction of what HD-based portables like the iPod can hold. So you can't carry around your entire CD collection. On the other hand, it's like having a portable CD play with a 4-disc changer, but without the bulk. It's a compromise I think I can live with.
  2.    #82  
    Gameboy70

    Plus as somebody mentioned earlier, you don't have to outlay $350-$550 for an iPod. You don't have to carry the additional device (ipod) you don't have to worry about the ipod battery being charged and you don't have to buy or carry extra batteries.

    Plus SD memory will keep getting cheaper.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  3. #83  
    In addition, with the 600 you are not limited to what music you carry with you when you leave home. I make my home music collection available to me over the internet (password protected) so that I can access it from anywhere. With the 600 and an unlimited data plan, it will be so much fun wirelessly grabbing music from home when on the go.
  4.    #84  
    silverado

    How would you make your home music collection available to yourself over the internet so you can access it from anywhere?

    It sound like a cool idea, but how would you do it?

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  5. #85  
    There are many ways of doing it, all depend on having a broadband connection at home (and leaving your computer on). Then you can set up your computer to be a server for an appropriate protocol of your choosing (http, ftp, etc) and set up the computer and router (if you have one) to allow these types of connections to come through.

    I currently do it using sftp (secure ftp). With the Treo 600 I would probably do it using http (since the new Blazer allows downloading files) and I would use a password-protected set of pages that allow me to navigate the hierarchy of my music.
  6. #86  
    You should also be able to transfer MP3s from home to your Treo using Cutting Edge Software's MobileFile ($50). See here: http://www.quickoffice.com/mobilefile/

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  7. #87  
    Silverado, I have to admit that I'm pretty new to MP3s, so I can't remember what the file sizes tend to be. Based on the transfer speeds we know that the current Treo 300 is capable of, how long should it take to download an average-length good-to-high quality MP3 file to your Treo?

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #88  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    Silverado, I have to admit that I'm pretty new to MP3s, so I can't remember what the file sizes tend to be. Based on the transfer speeds we know that the current Treo 300 is capable of, how long should it take to download an average-length good-to-high quality MP3 file to your Treo?

    Scott
    I would say an average decent song is around 3 megs. What rates do people get with the 300? I have a 270, so I would want to see how fast the 600 will be given that it has more GPRS channels. But say if you are getting 70kbps on the 300, that 3 meg song could be downloaded in about 7 minutes. Not exactly blazing speed, but the prospect is interesting, nontheless If you are on a long trip and got sick of your music, you can over the course of an hour in evening at your hotel room get some more music while your treo is safely plugged in and being recharged.
  9. #89  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70
    A $80-100 256 Mb SD card can hold four albums' worth of high-quality MP3, which is far more music than I rotate in a day. Yes, that's only a fraction of what HD-based portables like the iPod can hold. So you can't carry around your entire CD collection. On the other hand, it's like having a portable CD play with a 4-disc changer, but without the bulk. It's a compromise I think I can live with. [/B]
    That isn't actually true, it can hold four albums if your MP3s are encoded at 64kbps, but I would hardly call that hight quality. I think the minimum for good sound is 128 kbps but it usually makes more sense to encode in variable bitrate. At 128 kbps you would still get two CDs, which should be good enough for a normal day unless you really listen to a lot of music. The nice thing about the iPod is that you don't have to keep chaning the music on the device. With the phone, you will need to hook it up and transfer new music each day. It would be nice if companies started to support the OGG file format as it's superior to MP3 both in size and sound quality.
  10. #90  
    Also, a good rule of thumb would be 1 MB per minute for decent audio quality. Of course this all depends on the type of compression and format you use as well (mp3, Ogg Vorbis, etc).



    How would you make your home music collection available to yourself over the internet so you can access it from anywhere?
    In addition to what Silverado/Scott said, another option in the future will be streaming audio to your wireless PalmOS handheld. A mobile player called , MMPlayer, has already stated they will soon support HTTP/RTSP protocols which is necessary for streaming...
  11. #91  
    Originally posted by kazinvan

    It would be nice if companies started to support the OGG file format as it's superior to MP3 both in size and sound quality.
    Pocket Tunes is a PalmOS player that supports Ogg Vorbis and mp3...
  12. #92  
    Thanks, I have not investigated mp3 players for PalmOS as my current device does not support this nor could the processor even handle the decoding of anything over 128kbps. I would likely have to re-encode everything as all my mp3s are variable bitrate with peak at 320kbps. I do have a separate mp3 player that I use but having it in the phone is not something I'm likely to use too much. The reason is that I usually use the mp3 player when working out and the phone is an expensive device that I do not want to drop, step on, crush with weights, etc. So, I'll stick to the cheaper mp3 playback device that I already havea bunch of SmartMedia cards for, and use the phone/pda for everything else.
  13. #93  
    I'll have to disagree with you Jake on the width of the phone being perfect or just right. I still think the treo 600 could have been made narrower. Just look at all cell phones. They are narrow, not "fat" like the Treo 300. The treo 300 is the fattest phone you've ever seen. Yes they did improve on that in the Treo 600, but I looked at the specs of the Samsung I300 and I330, and the I300 is 2.28", and the I330 is 2.3". When you go into the store and see the I330, it looks like a big bulky pda device. The I300, is also still fat, especially when it first came out...it was one of the first smartphones on the market. If you look closely at the I300, while it is only 2.28" wide, see here:
    http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen...sung-i300.html

    there is still room on either side that the screen is not stretching to, and those sides could be shaved off like the way it is on the Treo 600. That would bring the Treo 600 down to maybe 2" wide, which is a noticible improvement, and that would be a perfect form factor. Now making the querty keyboard that narrow would be the problem...Jeff Hawkins would have to make the keys smaller, and that would only work for smaller hands..but I think its still doable within reason. At least the phone would look much more like a phone, a true miniature cell phone, while retaining full pda capabilities. I think the ideal width, then, should be like 2.1" or 2", and then this would all be possible. I think the phone would sell a lot more, even though the width of the screen would be comprimised a little. I think it could still work. I think the keyboard keys would have to be made more "vertical", skinnier that is, yet still be domed so you have good contact to press down on it. So 2 inches wide. That's what the next future Treo should be aiming for.
  14. #94  
    I'm certainly glad that they didn't make it any narrower than they already have. IMO, making the screen any smaller than the Treo 300's will already result in decreased usability in terms of positioning cursors, tapping on buttons, etc. I'm hoping that this d-pad works as well as people are claiming it will and I won't have to use my stylus for too much. It's worth noting, however, that a stylus-based input system does have definite advantages. It's a lot quicker for me to tap on a menu bar and select a menu option and then tap on an "OK" button than it is to cycle through all of these things using a d-pad until I get to what I want and then have to press the d-pad to select it. Again, I think integrating the d-pad more into the OS is great, but there will be times when I'm sitting and using my smartphone that I may want to pull out the stylus and use it that way.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #95  
    They can put Fossil screen, now that they cancel the fossil.
  16. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #96  
    Originally posted by josephtse
    I'll have to disagree with you Jake on the width of the phone being perfect or just right. I still think the treo 600 could have been made narrower. Just look at all cell phones. They are narrow, not "fat" like the Treo 300. The treo 300 is the fattest phone you've ever seen. Yes they did improve on that in the Treo 600, but I looked at the specs of the Samsung I300 and I330, and the I300 is 2.28", and the I330 is 2.3".
    So you want it even narrower? I don't think many PDA users will agree with you. One of the biggest criticisms of the Treo 600 is, the pixel count of 160 x 160 is too low, and the screen ought to be at least 320 x 320. This is important for both PDA use and web browsing with your phone. You will lose most of the benefit of a higher pixel count if you make the screen smaller.
    Last edited by Iceman6; 07/02/2003 at 11:56 AM.
  17. #97  
    I don't want the screen to be any smaller either. Of course we all want our phones to be the smallest possible, but we also want a usable screen and keyboard. I think having lost the flip and making it 1/2" narrower will be perfect for me. Sure it's not as slim as other phones, but those other phones can't do what the Treo does. Everything has a price.
  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #98  
    if you make the screen narrower and have higher resolution, things will look very sharp.

    but on the downside, touch screen will be pretty useless for stylus tips or finger operation. One would need needle point to operate standard unaltered PDA application interface.
  19.    #99  
    kazinvan

    Actually, kazinvan I believe it is you that stands corrected. All of my MP3s are encoded at 256kbps which is considerd by many experts to be true CD quality. The AVERAGE file size of an my MP3 files is 6MB. Assuming the average album has ten songs which would be 60MB, then it stands to reason that four albums would take up 240MB. If the songs were encoded at 128Kbps, which I would never do, you would be able to hold 8 albums worth of music on a 256Mb card.

    Originally posted by kazinvan


    That isn't actually true, it can hold four albums if your MP3s are encoded at 64kbps, but I would hardly call that hight quality. I think the minimum for good sound is 128 kbps but it usually makes more sense to encode in variable bitrate. At 128 kbps you would still get two CDs, which should be good enough for a normal day unless you really listen to a lot of music. The nice thing about the iPod is that you don't have to keep chaning the music on the device. With the phone, you will need to hook it up and transfer new music each day. It would be nice if companies started to support the OGG file format as it's superior to MP3 both in size and sound quality.

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Gameboy70
    A $80-100 256 Mb SD card can hold four albums' worth of high-quality MP3, which is far more music than I rotate in a day. Yes, that's only a fraction of what HD-based portables like the iPod can hold. So you can't carry around your entire CD collection. On the other hand, it's like having a portable CD play with a 4-disc changer, but without the bulk. It's a compromise I think I can live with. [/B]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  20. #100  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    kazinvan

    Actually, kazinvan I believe it is you that stands corrected. All of my MP3s are encoded at 256kbps which is considerd by many experts to be true CD quality. The AVERAGE file size of an my MP3 files is 6MB. Assuming the average album has ten songs which would be 60MB, then it stands to reason that four albums would take up 240MB. If the songs were encoded at 128Kbps, which I would never do, you would be able to hold 8 albums worth of music on a 256Mb card.
    JakeE,

    Partially yes, you could fit four CDs on a 256 MB card if they are encoded at 128 kbps, but not at 256 kbps.

    I do agree with you that 256kbps or higher is needed for good quality sound. In the case of mp3 players it doesn't make too much of a difference as no one that I know uses ear phones of sufficient quality to tell the difference between 128, 256, and 320 kbps mp3s. Having said that, you may want to use the files elsewhere (like your hifi system at home) thus encoding at high bitrate makes sense.

    Now to how I arrive at my numbers. Say you have a 256 kbps (kilo bits per second) mp3, that converts to:

    32 kBps (kilo bytes per second)
    1920 kBpm (kilo bytes per minute)
    115200 kBph (kilo bytes per hour)
    112.5 MBph (mega bytes per hour)

    So, one hour of mp3 playback at 256 kbps will use up 112.5 MB of space. Two times that is 225 MB. So on a 256 MB memory card, you can fit 2.28 hours of mp3 audio at 256 kbps.

    CDs can fit 80 minutes of music, but most commercial CDs are not full. Assuming 60 minutes of music on a CD, that will allow you to fit two CDs on one 256MB memory card.

    If you drop the bitrate down to 128 kbps, it requires 56.25 MB for an hour of music. In that case, you could fit
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