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  1. veroi's Avatar
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    #41  
    The screen of the G1000 is the size of the Treo. I can tell you that I do not carry the Treo in my hand all day, so the size DELTA , is no big issue. I will try for Outlook Interface,etc.
  2. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #42  
    The G1000 is a very specialized product. Even in PPC forum nobody is expecting it to be a big seller. It's Hitachi's first clumsy attempt.

    The current PPC phone edition front runner is still the XDA, followed closely by the new Samsung sph i700. But PPC are entirely different class of PDA/phone compared to treo. They are full service PDA. Samsung for eg. has SD and CF attachment giving it ability to do video presentation or WiFi connection etc. This is not just storage or total vaporware of SDIO handpring has been hinting since treo 90.

    ...but what will kill treo 600 is
    Asus AGP600 and mio 8380.

    AGP600
    http://www.pdaavenue.com/news/Images/cebit2003-asus.jpg

    smartphone 2k2
    BT, 200mhz Xscale,
    Java, voice recog, SD
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/448.html

    http://www.etaiwannews.com/news_imag...SMARTPHONE.jpg
    http://www.etaiwannews.com/Business/...1055294609.htm

    Is smartphone even compared to treo?
    well, if British market is any lesson, I would be thinking seriously about the future of treo.

    Treo market is practically gone over night after SPV enter the market. (Well plus Handpsing just gave up.)
  3. #43  
    Hello ska....
  4. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #44  
    Wow, the mio 8380 looks hot! I bet Sony and Motorola are worried. I thought a serious digital camera/phone was a year away, and I bet they did too. That's the smallest smartphone I've ever seen. Available in July in Taiwan. I wonder if they are planning a CDMA version?
  5. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #45  
    CDMA version is made by Compal. That one is basic candybar format just like treo 600, it will hit US later this year supposedly.

    The two phones above are already launching in Taiwan, so it should get market tested by the time they reach US.

    The smartphone OS itself reaches version 1.5 in britain with the introduction of SPVE100. So by the time it hit US, the entire thing should be second or third iteration, instead of raw first generation.

    Motorola is also reportedly building a Microsoft based smartphones, but still sometimes to go, along with TI's WANDA.
  6. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #46  
    My bad! The camera in the mio 8380 is 110,000 pixels. That's right folks, 0.11 megapixels. All together now, booooooo! Someone wake me up when first serious camera/phone shows up. This isn't it.
  7. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #47  
    There are only less then a half dozen flip phones in the world right now that come with one mp+ cams. They are all in Japan. The new 505 class.

    Fuji F505i for eg. has 1.2MP cam.
    http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/artic...age/13537.html

    It'll take a while for 1mp+ cam to get out of Japan since the 505 are just being introduced several weeks ago.
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by Iceman6
    My bad! The camera in the mio 8380 is 110,000 pixels. That's right folks, 0.11 megapixels. All together now, booooooo! Someone wake me up when first serious camera/phone shows up. This isn't it.
    Have you heard of the Sony Ericsson SO505i? It going ot be released by NTT DoCoMo in Japan and will include a 1.3 MP carmera! It also has a wickedly cool flip, swivel screen design like nothing else out there. You can check out more pics here. Also, it should be noted that SE is planning an upgrade to the P800 called predictably the SE P810. It also is supposed to have a 1.3 MP camera and should be available on any gsm/gprs provider....

    However, the SO505i is what caught my eye! It would be interesting to see if Sony ever releases a PalmOS smartphone like this. However, none of these mobile have a thumbboard....
  9. #49  
    They don't have a keyboard, so they won't come close to threatening the Treo, IMO.

    I tried the SPV and I wasn't impressed at all. It is like a glorified modern phone where features like calendar, etc are better than the average phone. It is not a PDA as well as a phone. It doesn't even have a touch screen.

    So I basically believe that these devices compete with each other and have their own audience. Anyone who is a real PDA user and is looking for a converged device will not consider them.
  10. #50  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    ...but what will kill treo 600 is
    Asus AGP600 and mio 8380.

    Purple,

    I am not married to Handspring, but I would choose the Treo over either of those devices. The Asus is something I would look at because of its different appearance, but the Treo has the keyboard. The mio is a good looking device, but again no keyboard.

    Cluemeister
  11. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #51  
    Originally posted by silverado
    They don't have a keyboard, so they won't come close to threatening the Treo, IMO.

    I tried the SPV and I wasn't impressed at all. It is like a glorified modern phone where features like calendar, etc are better than the average phone. It is not a PDA as well as a phone. It doesn't even have a touch screen.

    So I basically believe that these devices compete with each other and have their own audience. Anyone who is a real PDA user and is looking for a converged device will not consider them.
    That is assuming that integrated keyboard is appealing enough factor for treo to hold on to market share.

    which it doesn't seem to be in every market that smarphone enters. Can smartphone do all the thing that treo can do with keyboard? probably not. Can treo do all the thing smartphone can do? most positively not.

    Are they competing for the same audiance? Yes most definitely. The overlap of smartphone and PPC phone edition are currently what drive Microsoft plan in phone market, until they can combined both OS in 2005 or so. All smartphones aim for one goal, a voice phone with full PDA capability.

    for eg. MS smartphones even at this early pre US launch is already well ahead in basic office apps, networking, multimedia and gaming apps, encouraging PPC developer to port their ware to smartphone. Those category appeal young buyers. PIM replacement will come soon enough as demand emerge.

    All in all it would be foolish to think treo is not in the same arena as smartphone and PPC PE. It's a bit like saying Microsoft doesn't aim for low end Zire in handheld market.

    If integrated keyboard turns out to be the very feature that customer wants, you can bet your horse, Microsoft will release one variation with integrated keyboard. But as of now, from about 6 or so initial variations, Microsoft rather aim for what high end Japanese phones form factor. There is no big seller high end phone in the world that comes with a keyboard. Neither of the big 3 phone makes make phone with it. (Nokia, Samsung, moto) (well there is one fold out Nokia phone but it's not out yet)

    Also during the lifetime of treo 600, There will be about 6-12 smartphone variations introduced world wide. One can expect Microsoft gets it right before sucessor of treo 600 comes out.
  12. #52  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    That is assuming that integrated keyboard is appealing enough factor for treo to hold on to market share.

    which it doesn't seem to be in every market that smarphone enters. Can smartphone do all the thing that treo can do with keyboard? probably not. Can treo do all the thing smartphone can do? most positively not.

    Are they competing for the same audiance? Yes most definitely. The overlap of smartphone and PPC phone edition are currently what drive Microsoft plan in phone market, until they can combined both OS in 2005 or so. All smartphones aim for one goal, a voice phone with full PDA capability.

    for eg. MS smartphones even at this early pre US launch is already well ahead in basic office apps, networking, multimedia and gaming apps, encouraging PPC developer to port their ware to smartphone. Those category appeal young buyers. PIM replacement will come soon enough as demand emerge.

    All in all it would be foolish to think treo is not in the same arena as smartphone and PPC PE. It's a bit like saying Microsoft doesn't aim for low end Zire in handheld market.

    If integrated keyboard turns out to be the very feature that customer wants, you can bet your horse, Microsoft will release one variation with integrated keyboard. But as of now, from about 6 or so initial variations, Microsoft rather aim for what high end Japanese phones form factor. There is no big seller high end phone in the world that comes with a keyboard. Neither of the big 3 phone makes make phone with it. (Nokia, Samsung, moto) (well there is one fold out Nokia phone but it's not out yet)

    Also during the lifetime of treo 600, There will be about 6-12 smartphone variations introduced world wide. One can expect Microsoft gets it right before sucessor of treo 600 comes out.
    I'm sure MS is aiming for the serious PDA user who wants to carry one device. But I believe is that they are missing by a long shot with the current SPV. Take one important spec: data entry. The SPV has no touch screen or keyboard. How am I supposed to use its "superior" office integration to edit a document? How can I send a real email message? I could go on and on.

    My comment did not touch on PPC-based phones or future, unseen models. Thus, I still stand by what I said: that these phones will appeal to a different audience than the Treo 600.

    In my opinion, HS was never aiming for the whole "smart phone" market. They are aiming for the serious PDA user who wants a very good integrated phone as well. This excludes any device without a relatively high-throughput data entry method.

    The new Palm/HS stated aim is to rejuvinate PDA sales, which are slumping because users are not inclined to change PDA's often, by enticing those PDA users to buy a new PDA with their next phone and reap the benefits of integration. (see the merger announcement presentation) People do change phones a lot more often.

    I agree regarding MS and keyboards and I have predicted that they will produce models with keyboards very soon because IMO they are about to see its importance. MS isn't particularly quick to notice innovative trends (remember their original internet strategy?), but they are sure fast to catch up once it does.
    Last edited by silverado; 06/27/2003 at 11:09 AM.
  13. #53  
    I used to carry my cell and a PDA I have used forever was a Jornada...

    I had every version of that clunker since it came out...

    The only part of the JORNADA that made sense was the "NADA" part.. because it did about nothing.

    Pocket PC software is Microsoft trying to make mobile a desktop product. Well, they are TWO different things.

    Palm is quick and easy...

    YES I am not happy about some of the simpleness of Palm.. like having no REALLY good Sync manager with Outlook and needing third party prtograms to deal with documents....

    But all in all.. when I need to go from playing blackjack to making a call to looking at a shopping list to getting corporate email to checking something on the web, the palm does it all quick and easy....

    I'll be one of those waiting for the Treo 600 as well... The Hitachi, when I first saw it DID have everything I wanted.. when I got my treo I always thought one day I would return to Pocket PC when an integrated device worth something (not that toshiba junk) came out...

    But I am used to the Palm.. and the new OS I am sure is much better than this 3.5....

    Size has never been much of an issue.. when I hold my treo 300 to my face people think it is big.. but who cares....

    However the hitachi REALLY pushes the limit.. I see they space the keys on the thumboard out way too much... waste space....

    I am a Palm believer!

    Mike
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #54  
    This is like reading mini keyboard fetish club bulletin. :P

    Could it be that thumboard is just like grafitti? a temporary patch because of initial developmental difficulties?

    Is it possible that the reason there is so few smartphone with keyboard, because everybody else has much better software technology?

    ...mmm.
  15. #55  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    This is like reading mini keyboard fetish club bulletin. :P

    Could it be that thumboard is just like grafitti? a temporary patch because of initial developmental difficulties?

    Is it possible that the reason there is so few smartphone with keyboard, because everybody else has much better software technology?

    ...mmm.
    I don't think so. I used to think a tiny keyboard is silly when I saw it on the Blackberry. When I bought a Treo I realized that this was brilliant, and I have been a big Graffiti fan. The biggest advantage is that you can use it with a single hand. This is a huge advantage. The idea that you have to stop and pull out the stylus for ANYTHING you have to write, is totally out of the question now. This even makes a small phone pad better than a touch screen handwriting recognition solution sometimes, because at least you can use it when one of your hands isn't free. I am still a Graffiti lover and I use it from time to time on my Treo. But at 25-30 wpm with the keyboard, what more can I ask for?

    We don't use styli and handwriting for data input with our computers. Why is a stylus supposed to better for a PDA if a keyboard can do a better job? I prefer typing to perfect handwriting recognition.
  16. #56  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    This is like reading mini keyboard fetish club bulletin. :P


    Purple,

    We are looking for a new secretary of the KFB (Keyboard Fetish Club). Responsibilities would include the monthly newsletter, (my fave column is love me, love my keyboard); taking minutes at the meetings; and deflecting criticism of our much beloved/occasionally maligned keyboard.

    Our motto: We're QWERTY, We're here-ty, get used to it!

    Cluemeister
  17. #57  
    its sooo unpalmy. i am allergic to windows handhelds. and its got a keyboard. the 180g is the first and the last perfect pure palm smartphone that has style. its my 4th device in 12 months - but what the hell - style is expensive :-)
  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #58  
    Originally posted by silverado

    We don't use styli and handwriting for data input with our computers. Why is a stylus supposed to better for a PDA if a keyboard can do a better job? I prefer typing to perfect handwriting recognition.
    okay so you sacrifice a huge screen real estate for 160x160 2.7inch square screen and a thumboard just for that 20% time you need to 'type'.

    full screen virtual keyboard with advance predictive maybe? It works magic for that 20% without making user squint on a tiny square screen.

    plus haven't we heard how Hawkins think grafitti is the ultimate solution to PDA input, then change his mind when lawsuit come? The official spin is something about how user likes thumboard better.

    ... mmm.. I wonder what Hawkins is going to say if finally he has a working HWR.
  19. #59  
    Originally posted by purpleX

    Originally posted by silverado

    We don't use styli and handwriting for data input with our computers. Why is a stylus supposed to better for a PDA if a keyboard can do a better job? I prefer typing to perfect handwriting recognition.


    okay so you sacrifice a huge screen real estate for 160x160 2.7inch square screen and a thumboard just for that 20% time you need to 'type'.

    full screen virtual keyboard with advance predictive maybe? It works magic for that 20% without making user squint on a tiny square screen.

    plus haven't we heard how Hawkins think grafitti is the ultimate solution to PDA input, then change his mind when lawsuit come? The official spin is something about how user likes thumboard better.

    ... mmm.. I wonder what Hawkins is going to say if finally he has a working HWR.
    You still didn't address my point that you quoted. We don't use styli with our desktop computers eventhough we have all the power we need to run the best handwriting recognition software. Why do you assume that that's the ultimate goal on a PDA+phone?

    Also the small screen is there for many reasons, not only because the keyboard is there. People want smaller devices, especially when it's a phone. So the sacrifice of the bigger screen is largly because of trying to have a reasonably-sized device that would be easy to carry all day and looks normal when you held to your head. These are important factors to the people who are going to buy and use these devices.

    Also, dialing by touching the screen with your fingers? No way for me. I must say that I NEVER use the screen dial keypad on my Treo. It is just so unnatural to click on virtual buttons that have no tactile feel. Dialing a phone number is NOT a 20% case. This is to say nothing about typing text by touching a screen.

    I think Treo development has been on a path of pragmatism and usability. Looking at this without actually using the devices you are bound to miss the point and be unable to appreciate the utility of device and the decisions made to create it.
  20. #60  
    <<<<<Also, dialing by touching the screen with your fingers?>>>>>

    why dial using the numbers on the screen. you can just graffiti the numbers.
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