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  1.    #1  
    I think that the Treo 600 looks great, but I still have some qualms with it (yah it didn't come out yet, I know)...

    Including...

    1) 180x180 screen (it really does make a big difference!)
    2) lack of built-in voice/conversation recording
    3) lack of built in SMS messaging (for CDMA version.. why pay $$ for feature every other phone has built in?)
    4) non-swivel camera (for those self-portraits)
    5) no bluetooth
    6) no Wi-Fi (yah no other phone has it yet, but its a first)
    7) 12-bit color

    But chances are, I'll still end up getting it. I just dropped by the Verizon store and the Sprint store... the alternatives aren't any better.

    I saw the Samsung I700... it looked like a nice PDA, but I'd miss the keyboard.

    The Samsung I330 was a nice phone, but again, no keyboard.

    As far as the other alternatives, all had similar lack of keyboard and big size issue. Handspring... you were soooo close to creating the PERFECT PDA... (for me at least).

    Oh well, I guess I'll have to upgrade again in 2 years. .
  2. #2  
    Yep, that about sums it up. Well I'm still pretty excited and growing more so. Even with the various perceived shortcomings different people will have, it's still looking like one heck of a product and I really haven't yet seen anything quite like it. And I've been waiting and researching for a very long time. I've got my eye on other PDA's coming out, and other smartphones and this is the only one that has won my enthusiasm. I just hope it works as nice as it looks.
  3. #3  
    #1, #7) If there was a great screen people would complain about the 2 hour battery life. Sure it would be great to have the best of both worlds, but I don't think the science is there yet.

    #2) Voice recording isn't built in, but it seems as if it's a software upgrade away. This I can live with. I'd rather have the phone out quickly than have it held up for voice recording software.

    #3) SMS messaging. I don't really know anyone with SMS phones with keyboards that make SMS messaging worthwhile, so I don't use it. Still I thought there was a new app to make SMS messaging more like IM. Wouldn't that be "built-in" as you define it?

    #4) Swivel camera would be nice, but I'd prefer a higher resolution one. For first gen and on a cell phone, it's acceptable. There's also a limited space where you could put a swivel camera it seems.

    #5), #6) Add-on card should provide these. These would raise the price of the phone a ton and otherwise you'd be paying $800-$1000 as you would the top of the line Clie with a wi-fi card and all the whistles. It's a good solution because the people that want the card can buy it and the others can enjoy not having to shell out $800. Personally, if I had the phone a wi-fi card and maybe a fold up real keyboard would be my first two purchases. That's a second computer right there.
  4.    #4  
    Well, they could have used an OLED screen. Although I'm not sure the resolution those screens provide, they use considerably less battery power.

    As far as the voice recording goes, yah, you could do it thru software, but I like the one button record button on the side (similar to ones by Sanyo and Samsung). This way, when you're in a middle of a conversation, you just press the button on the side without having to fiddle with the menu.

    As far as the SMS app goes, its only for GSM phones. SMS for SprintPCS doesn't exist (unless you buy TreoSMS, which is more $$$). This was stupid on Sprint's part, as most Vision phones have the ability to write SMS messages on the phone.

    Yah add on cards can provide most of the wireless features. But who wants to pay for another add-on? I'd much prefer the built in luxury.

    Oh well... that was the only rants I had on the phone. Hopefully the next generation Treo (Treo 900?) will have my wishes granted. The screen was the main one, though...
  5. njchris's Avatar
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    #5  
    Are OLED screens expensive?
  6. #6  
    I don't think the OLED technology is there for the top resolution and color depth. I guess they've been used on digital cameras, but those haven't impressed me much. I think this is surely where the industry is going, but it's more than likely a generation or maybe two away.

    With voice recording software and the one-touch feature, you could theoretically program the V button (or choose your own letter) to launch and run whatever voice recording software is built. While it's not a dedicated button, it solves the running through a menu for it, which is 95% of the problem. Plus you can't have a dedicated button for everything.

    Either way you'd pay for the wireless functionality. I suppose if they integrated it in it might only cost 75% of what a separate card would cost, because they could by them in bulk. The extra cost of having it built in, might put it out of many of their customer's budgets. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered some sort of discount for buying both at the same time. I can only speculate, but having the functionality available to me is the biggest thing.

    Your rants are decent, and I'll add the "Why no built-in MP3 software and replaceable battery" rant to the list. These seem like big features that could have been easily fixed for very little overall cost or lost functionality.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by njchris
    Are OLED screens expensive?
    As pointed out here: http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Ar...ges=PR&seq=202

    "Sony to invest nine billion yen to build OLED production line "

    Look for them in Clies ....
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by jonnysnakes

    ...
    1) 180x180 screen (it really does make a big difference!)
    2) lack of built-in voice/conversation recording
    3) lack of built in SMS messaging (for CDMA version.. why pay $$ for feature every other phone has built in?)
    4) non-swivel camera (for those self-portraits)
    5) no bluetooth
    6) no Wi-Fi (yah no other phone has it yet, but its a first)
    7) 12-bit color
    1. Yes, the screen resolution is not what was hoped for, but the trade-off is battery life. Despite what people think about what is technically possible, people will find that if you drive a 320x320 screen instead of a 160x160 screen your battery life will suffer (not because of the back-light, but because of the refresh rate).

    2. Voice recording will be available via software, so I don't see that as a big deal. It's not a "killer" application.

    3. It makes me laugh that people think that SMS (Short Message Service) SHOULD be availalbe on a CDMA device. SMS is a technology that was developed as part of the GSM wireless standard. It was never part of CDMA. The best that any CDMA phone can do is emulate the functions of SMS or MMS (Multimedia Message Service). CDMA was developed for the US market and the developers were a little short-sighted. Now they're paying the price. If you want true SMS/MMS capability, then get a GSM phone.

    4. A swivel camera would destroy the form-factor that makes the Treo 600 so appealing as a phone. No other phone on the market would dare try to implement such a thing (that I know of). The Sony Clie (with it's swiveling camera) is NOT a phone and will never be accepted as such by the general public.

    5. I'm mixed on Bluetooth. The US market is too underdeveloped to fully appreciate BT. In Europe (especially Finland), cell phones are used for EVERYTHING...even buying softdrinks from vending machines...via BT. But the US market has yet to mature. Still, BT can be added via the SDIO slot, so it isn't too bad. I'd rather the Treo 600 be cheaper and have BT as an option than have the initial cost be more expensive. It already has to overcome a high price phobia when it comes to everyday consumers.

    6. Same as #5.

    7. Same as #1.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by Insp_Gadget
    1. Yes, the screen resolution is not what was hoped for, but the trade-off is battery life. Despite what people think about what is technically possible, people will find that if you drive a 320x320 screen instead of a 160x160 screen your battery life will suffer (not because of the back-light, but because of the refresh rate).
    Tungsten W has a 1500mAh battery, hires, 10 hour talk time. Treo 600 has a 1800mAh battery, lowres, 6 hour talk time. Of course this is all apples & oranges; different processors, Treo is usable w/o handsfree. But I don't think screen resolution would really have made much difference at all. I'm actually be wondering why the heck the Treo 600 is less efficient than the Tungsten W, as I thought the Dragonball was more power hungry than the TI OMAP.
  10.    #10  
    Originally posted by Insp_Gadget


    1. Yes, the screen resolution is not what was hoped for, but the trade-off is battery life. Despite what people think about what is technically possible, people will find that if you drive a 320x320 screen instead of a 160x160 screen your battery life will suffer (not because of the back-light, but because of the refresh rate).

    2. Voice recording will be available via software, so I don't see that as a big deal. It's not a "killer" application.

    3. It makes me laugh that people think that SMS (Short Message Service) SHOULD be availalbe on a CDMA device. SMS is a technology that was developed as part of the GSM wireless standard. It was never part of CDMA. The best that any CDMA phone can do is emulate the functions of SMS or MMS (Multimedia Message Service). CDMA was developed for the US market and the developers were a little short-sighted. Now they're paying the price. If you want true SMS/MMS capability, then get a GSM phone.

    4. A swivel camera would destroy the form-factor that makes the Treo 600 so appealing as a phone. No other phone on the market would dare try to implement such a thing (that I know of). The Sony Clie (with it's swiveling camera) is NOT a phone and will never be accepted as such by the general public.

    5. I'm mixed on Bluetooth. The US market is too underdeveloped to fully appreciate BT. In Europe (especially Finland), cell phones are used for EVERYTHING...even buying softdrinks from vending machines...via BT. But the US market has yet to mature. Still, BT can be added via the SDIO slot, so it isn't too bad. I'd rather the Treo 600 be cheaper and have BT as an option than have the initial cost be more expensive. It already has to overcome a high price phobia when it comes to everyday consumers.

    6. Same as #5.

    7. Same as #1.
    1) If I were to lose an hour or so from my talk time in return for a better screen, take away that hour, please. Thats why I have a car charger (recharge on the go).

    2) Voice-recording should have been given a one-button access. While it is available via 3rd party apps, the one button access (standard at that) would definately be a nice feature.

    3) The fact of the matter is that SMS IS available on CDMA devices. Almost every Sprint Vision phone has the ability to compose SMS messages. Yet with the Treo, I cannot compose SMS, nor can I read SMS messages people wrote from different carriers (I have to go to Sprint's website for that). That I'm not cool with. The mere existence of Treo300SMS means that Sprint could have included the feature, but chose not to.

    4) Please check out the Samsung I700. It is a PDA phone w/ a built in swivel camera. There are plenty of other ones out there... I just don't have the energy to list them all here.

    5) This is the standard chicken/egg story. How would people use it/know about it if no phones have it? It shouldn't be a matter of "its not in use yet, so why put it in there", but rather that every phone has it so people BEGIN to use it. It really isn't that difficult to put in bluetooth, but they chose not to implement it.


    Oh well, thats all i have to say about that.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by potatoho

    Tungsten W has a 1500mAh battery, hires, 10 hour talk time. Treo 600 has a 1800mAh battery, lowres, 6 hour talk time. Of course this is all apples & oranges; different processors, Treo is usable w/o handsfree. But I don't think screen resolution would really have made much difference at all. I'm actually be wondering why the heck the Treo 600 is less efficient than the Tungsten W, as I thought the Dragonball was more power hungry than the TI OMAP.
    If all other things were equal I would agree with you about the screen, but:

    1. You're comparing a 33MHz processor to a 144MHz processor. The Dragonball at 33MHz draws considerably less power than the TI at 144MHz. Yes, the TI OMAP is a more efficient processor and it would (in theory) draw less power than a Dragonball IF it was run at the same 33MHz speed, but it's run at 5 times that speed. The laws of physics say that something has to give.

    2. Keep in mind the Treo 600 has DOUBLE the memory (which draws more power to keep it refreshed).

    3. The Treo has to power a REAL speaker during a conversation. This draws more power than a hands-free earbud.

    I wont even get into the camera, as I don't know how much power it draws, if any.

    So IF the specifications of the two devices were the same, then I could see Handspring using a 320x320 screen on the Treo 600 (as was done on the T-W), but given the reality, I can see why they didn't.

    With all that said, I'm going to reserve judgement until I can operate one.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by jonnysnakes

    1) If I were to lose an hour or so from my talk time in return for a better screen, take away that hour, please. Thats why I have a car charger (recharge on the go).
    I agree, but power users (such as the majority of us on this board) would still complain.


    2) Voice-recording should have been given a one-button access. While it is available via 3rd party apps, the one button access (standard at that) would definately be a nice feature.
    You can get that functionality by assigning ANY of the keys to launch whatever voice-recording software you choose. Granted, it's not a STANDARD feature, but how many people REALLY use it in practice? Not many.


    3) The fact of the matter is that SMS IS available on CDMA devices. Almost every Sprint Vision phone has the ability to compose SMS messages. Yet with the Treo, I cannot compose SMS, nor can I read SMS messages people wrote from different carriers (I have to go to Sprint's website for that). That I'm not cool with. The mere existence of Treo300SMS means that Sprint could have included the feature, but chose not to.
    I have to REALLY disagree with you on this one. SMS is a GSM function. What you see on a CDMA device is NOT SMS. It is an approximation (a kludge that Sprint put together to compete with GSM's capabilities). The fact that it is not a part of the CDMA standard is the reason why you cant get it to work across-the-board with other carriers. You have a US-market-centric viewpoint. As long as the US market does not embrace the world-wide GSM standard, incompatibilities will exist. That isn't Handspring's fault. They didn't produce it with the Treo 300 (a CDMA device), so why should they for the CDMA version of the Treo 600? If Sprint doesn't want to add their kludge to the Treo 600 (as they did with the Treo 300), then complain about Sprint, not about the Treo 600. I repeat: If you want SMS, get the GSM version. Anything else is just window-dressing.


    4) Please check out the Samsung I700. It is a PDA phone w/ a built in swivel camera. There are plenty of other ones out there... I just don't have the energy to list them all here.
    Thank you for pointing it out. (I had Sony's implementation in mind.) I agree with you on that point. That would have been nice to have.


    5) This is the standard chicken/egg story. How would people use it/know about it if no phones have it? It shouldn't be a matter of "its not in use yet, so why put it in there", but rather that every phone has it so people BEGIN to use it. It really isn't that difficult to put in bluetooth, but they chose not to implement it.
    It may not be technically difficult to implement it, but it wouldn't be free. That was my point. And the price of the phone will certainly be impacted by the inclusion of it. When faced with a market that expects their phones to be cheap, I think it's a good compromise. You're right about the chicken/egg syndrome. The US market, for all its innovation, has not taken advantage of the technology. Most American companies are too short-sighted (banking on turning a profit on a quarter-by-quarter basis). They aren't willing to invest in long-term ventures (as would be required to make Bluetooth a mainstream technology in the US market). It's unfortunate, but that's economics.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  13.    #13  
    Ahh... who am I kidding.


    I really wanted the 320x320 screen w/ 16bit color so I could surf porn on the road.

    ...Handspring Treo 900... where are you?
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by jonnysnakes
    Ahh... who am I kidding.


    I really wanted the 320x320 screen w/ 16bit color so I could surf porn on the road.

    ...Handspring Treo 900... where are you?
    Ah ha! Now it comes out!

    Join the club buddy.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by jonnysnakes
    Ahh... who am I kidding.


    I really wanted the 320x320 screen w/ 16bit color so I could surf porn on the road.

    ...Handspring Treo 900... where are you?
    Exactly my point the other day!

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