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  1. #101  
    I fear you are underestimating someone who frequently does what everyone else thinks is wrong and makes it turn out right. Do you really think that Jeff Hawkins, who pioneered the thumboard in a cellphone ,would ruin it by making it too small? I think that is a very bad bet which indicates that perhaps you are not entirely familiar with his work. If you read this thread carefully when the Treo was originally introduced, you would see post after post criticizing Hawkins for putting in the thumboard. A year later, most on this thread believe the thumboard is absolutely essential.

    Also many early adoptors focus on the "goodies" i.e. features and pay too little attention to people engineering to make each function easier to perform. Samsung engineers keep spinning out new products, in many different flavors and operating systems. Hand, on the other hand, has sat and crafted and recrafted the same product trying to get it right. Is there any doubt that Handspring got the people engineering far superior to Samsung? I also think you will find that there are still plenty of undiscovered features of the new Treo.
  2. #102  
    Originally posted by dulan


    Although the T600 lacks BT and dispite the comparison to the Samsung SGH I-500, I still give it a thumbs up.

    I think the simple reason BT was not included in the T600 is cost. If this is to be a mass market device (one that the very existence of HS is riding on) you'd better believe that every penny counts. I imagine that in the process of "trimming the fat", the design team had to exclude BT, WIFI, and other goodies that pushed the device out of it's target cost window. In the end, I'm betting these features will not be missed by the masses (but they will be missed by those of us on the edge).

    Well sorry to say but I think the cost argument is a canard....integrating BT costs about $10...WiFi about $18.00 (to drop to about $9.00 in 6 months or so)...better still Texas Instruments unveiled its new Wanda (Wireless Any Network Digital Assistant) chipset, which for the first time packages Bluetooth, Wi-Fi (802.11b), and GSM cellular technology into a single chipset... I think I'll wait for that chip to make it's way into pda/phone hybrids. I'll be damned if I pay $600 for a device which will be obsolete within 3 months (if it even has that long to gain traction)
  3. #103  
    I have to agree with rvwink that Samsung is not known for making the best quality mobile phones. However, I do think you have to give the SGH the benefit of the doubt. If Handspring is to succeed with the Treo 600, its will have to match the SGH is specs (which is appears to do) as well as excel in the finer points of integration which is what Handspring is known for. Finally I think part of reason for the reserved response to the Treo 600 can be attributed to the fact that specs of the SGH came out a long time ago. Samsung was the 1st to announce details of a OS 5.x smartphone and thus garnered alot of attention for that. In deference to Handspring, I much rather hope that they're first to market instead of first to press!!

    P.S. Does anyone know if there's a new version of Blazer bundled with the Treo 600?
    Last edited by Gaurav; 06/03/2003 at 02:03 PM.
  4. #104  
    Originally posted by dulan


    I think the simple reason BT was not included in the T600 is cost. If this is to be a mass market device (one that the very existence of HS is riding on) you'd better believe that every penny counts. I imagine that in the process of "trimming the fat", the design team had to exclude BT, WIFI, and other goodies that pushed the device out of it's target cost window. In the end, I'm betting these features will not be missed by the masses (but they will be missed by those of us on the edge).

    You don't think that a BT wireless headset is a necessity for the masses? It is a basic convenience sorely needed for all the car drivers.

    The fixed battery is another disappointment. You got a problem with battery, you lost the phone. Fixed larger battery also means weight. My i330 has two batteries. I use the standard battery normally and change to the heavier extended battery while on the road.

    The difference between HS and Samsung is that HS has no room or time for error, but Samgsung does. If SGH-i500 screws up, they wll just come out another model. Treo600, however, could be HS's last chance for survival. HS is having its back against wall. It needs a very competitive product to survive. BT feature will definitely help. But unfortunately, they choose not to include that.
  5. #105  
    Originally posted by mcyang

    The difference between HS and Samsung is that HS has no room or time for error, but Samgsung does. If SGH-i500 screws up, they wll just come out another model. Treo600, however, could be HS's last chance for survival. HS is having its back against wall. It needs a very competitive product to survive. BT feature will definitely help. But unfortunately, they choose not to include that.
    Hallelujah.. I couldn't agree more ! What are Handspring thinking ??? They can't screw up on this product...it's do or die and they seemed to have BLOWN a golden opportunity to make a serious dent in the market. For those of you that say that BT and WiFi are high end items that won't be missed by mere mortals I say this: smartphones themselves are high end discretionary items bought by cutting edge folk...so you can't afford to not satisfy cutting or bleeding edge users...they're your bread and butter. If you want a simple phone you get that and a palm 130.
  6. #106  
    I think the non-removable battery is probably a compromise HS decided they'd rather make. Removable batteries add to the size of the device. To make a battery removable, it and the surrounding area have to have regular shapes that facilitate having a normal removable battery. Making the components have to conform to such shapes will most likely waste space. In addition, you have to encase the surfaces of both the battery and the phone where they meet, leading to more space being wasted by the additional casing material.
  7. #107  
    Originally posted by fredster


    Hallelujah.. I couldn't agree more ! What are Handspring thinking ??? They can't screw up on this product...it's do or die and they seemed to have BLOWN a golden opportunity to make a serious dent in the market. For those of you that say that BT and WiFi are high end items that won't be missed by mere mortals I say this: smartphones themselves are high end discretionary items bought by cutting edge folk...so you can't afford to not satisfy cutting or bleeding edge users...they're your bread and butter. If you want a simple phone you get that and a palm 130.
    Guys, you should remember that the design of the Treo 600 is very much influenced by Sprint. Thus it is conceivable that the lack of BT can be attributed to Sprint as much as HS. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $the$ $only$ $BT$ $enabled$ $cdma$ $mobile$ $is$ $the$ $forthcoming$ $SE$ $T608$...

    Texas Instruments unveiled its new Wanda (Wireless Any Network Digital Assistant) chipset, which for the first time packages Bluetooth, Wi-Fi (802.11b), and GSM cellular technology into a single chipset... I think I'll wait for that chip to make it's way into pda/phone hybrids.
    fredster, do you know of any cdma equivalent to such a chip? This may be another reason for the lack of BT functionality which may I emphasize has not been positively confirmed either way!
  8. #108  
    Originally posted by mcyang
    You don't think that a BT wireless headset is a necessity for the masses? It is a basic convenience sorely needed for all the car drivers.
    I'm not a BT advocate, but I have to agree with this point. I believe California just passed a law requiring handsfree for phones while driving. Lots of demand coming for BT headsets.

    What's bad is the pricing, I'd much rather pay $10-$20 to have it built into the device than have to pay TWICE the cost for every BT headset. BT headsets are all $50-$75, whereas the models with multi-adapters are like $120-$175. And I don't even think the multi-adapters are compatible amongst brands, so you have to pay twice the cost for each headset you buy.

    Hmm I should have also mentioned. WHY a camera instead of BT? That's pretty boneheaded, especially since the camera could have been added via SDIO or some other snap-on means.
    Last edited by potatoho; 06/03/2003 at 02:23 PM.
  9. #109  
    Everyone needs to remember that except for the limited info provided by the couple people to actually handle one, most everything being discussed is still speculation.

    It looks, to me anyway, like HS has focussed on adding the kind of functionality the mobile professionals really want out of a converged device. I will hold out hope for the voice recorder, some advanced phone features (voice dialing) and an mp3 player through the headset, etc. Still, it sounds like they have really focussed on delivering a solid device to the mobile professional set.

    The price point has not been officially announced, as far as I know anyway. However, I think the quoted price point will be a very soft number, as the carriers tend to offer a lot of rebates, especially for the larger enterprise sales.

    JMHO

    Gargoyle
  10. #110  
    3 cheers for nrosser -- too cool that you posted via Treo.

    I'm ecstatic -- have needed something new to crave from my favorite tech company for awhile. It's ironic that once they build the close-to-perfect device that meets all our needs, we'll lose the benefit of looking forward to the next latest greatest....

    I'm disproportionately worried about no flip cover as well. I carry my 270 in the same pocket as keys and coins (wallet is in the other), and worry about scratching up such a hefty investment. Plus, it's hard to read a scratched screen, which is much more important in a pda combo device than in a phone-alone device.

    Why a camera rather than bluetooth? I'd spend more on a pda-phone device if I don't have to shell out for a camera purchase as well, but I don't have any money "budgeted" for a "digital bluetooth."

    I'll bet MP3 will work eventually, even if someone needs to tweak the os5-compatible software. Heck, maybe the Blazer people at Handspring are working on an upgraded Blazer to support mp3 and video streaming through a web interface (they could one-up ipod and drive recurring revenue to Handspring -- hey, if they don't have someone working on this stuff, I should be getting a consulting fee!)

    Final thought for the Blazer folks (sorry to get off topic) -- support javascript and ssl better so that I can access my online banking wirelessly. And for that matter, suppport pdb formats so I can download programs direct from PalmGear etc.!
    Last edited by kouba; 06/03/2003 at 03:05 PM.
  11. glenng's Avatar
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    #111  
    nrosser:

    Could you please comment on the build quality of the device, whenever you have free time? Does this new device seem better made than the previous treo's?

    thanks for your time.
  12. #112  
    133 arm
    160*160 brighter pixels closer togehter because of slightly smaller screen size trust me it looks good

    will do streaming video

    size:
    basically no border space
    every surface area used
    length (bottom to top) same as 300
    width is about the size of the treo 300 screen
    height smaller than current treo . Look on current treo where the case connects its the size of the larger half.

    typing just as easy

    features speed dial instead of one number per square when highlight square all number for that person come up

    u will be happy

    design:
    screen top part
    toggle and appl keys middle
    keyboard very bottom

    sept sprint release

    price below 500 no specifics though

    javascritpt enabled

    mp3 yes

    sdio expansuion top

    screen glass
    case plastic polymer looks like glossy over it very pretty
    done well in drop test

    antenna slightly larger on left
    green on light is thinner on top left can see from top or front

    4.5-5 hrs talk time sd expansion batteries are/will be available 4 more hours

    where old scroll on left of treo is are volume buttons

    has speaker phone w speaker on front and back

    ull never hear about treo being big again

    rvwink there is no competition for this device

    its revolution not evolution

    rep also talkd about a different browswer that will allow java . don't remember its name I would recognize it though

    ALL of this info is from direct hands on experience other details I asked the rep demoing product

    written on the treo 300 most people here carry one
  13. #113  
    Are you sure it has a 160x160 resolution screen!? ARHH! That would not be good IMO!!! Also:

    4.5-5 hrs talk time sd expansion batteries are/will be available 4 more hours
    I've never heard of SD expansion batteries? Could you explain what these look like? Do they stick out of the SD slot?

    And finally, can you confirm whether or not the Treo 600 has integrated bluetooth?

    Thanks for the update...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 06/03/2003 at 03:08 PM.
  14. #114  
    Thanks for the very interesting update Craig.
  15. #115  
    I'm in new product seminar
    demoing hitachi ppc

    Treo is dominant here 40% treo 300. 1 person ppc phone. Rest are vering older phones or pdas

    watching demo on hitachi ppc w keyboard : huge and everyone is critical critical of it treo 600 is almost if not 1/3 of the size
  16. #116  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    I fear you are underestimating someone who frequently does what everyone else thinks is wrong and makes it turn out right. Do you really think that Jeff Hawkins, who pioneered the thumboard in a cellphone ,would ruin it by making it too small?
    I assure you, from hands-on experience, that the keyboard on the new Treo is significantly smaller. It feels quite narrow compared to the current Treos or the Blackberries. Does that mean it's "too small" or that it will "ruin" the device? Not necessarily, but many users will reject the feel of it. I personally do not think I would be comfortable typing extensively on it whereas I might be on other mini-keyboards (I don't know for sure since I do not own such a device, but I have used them). That said, the compromise form-factor is excellent and I think - hope! - Handspring has a winner with this one.

    Also from my observation the screen was square and appeared to be 160x160 resolution. That will be disappointing.
  17. #117  
    sync slot is same as treo 300 so old cable and car phone adapters will work

    if they still at booth after this seminar I'm in is over ill ask them ure qs . I was so excited I forgot to ask abouth bt and wifi
  18. #118  
    Originally posted by octagonmost
    Also from my observation the screen was square and appeared to be 160x160 resolution. That will be disappointing.
    ARHHH!! That is absolutely terrible news!! This will significantly dissuade me from getting this device! How could HS make such a horrendous mistake? Absolutely inexcusable! Almost every other OS 5.x pda/smarphone has a high rez (320x320) screen. A 160x160 screen is a freakin joke!
  19. #119  
    its proportionate to its size. i didnt even notice or think it was heavy (since I didn't notice guess that's good)
  20. #120  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic


    ARHHH!! That is absolutely terrible news!! This will significantly dissuade me from getting this device! How could HS make such a horrendous mistake? Absolutely inexcusable! Almost every other OS 5.x pda/smarphone has a high rez (320x320) screen. A 160x160 screen is a freakin joke!
    Guess I'll stick with Tungsten T and Sony Ericsson T68i for awhile longer

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