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  1. #41  
    i have the same questions about the 'no flip' part... sounds more dangerous for the screen, though i guess covers would still be available...

    aside from that, thanks for the scoop. great stuff at treocentral!
    Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.
  2. #42  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    - TFT screen - but that same guy also called the screen 'VGA' and the guy from Airprimr in the next booth popped up & said it's TFT. The sales guy didn't really know about transflective vs TFT, etc (nor do I really). Screen seemed really good though. I asked if 64K colors and he didn't know...

    screen was told to me to be much more usable in the sun
    and

    talked with yet more HAND dudes. Not TFT - it's called 'SuperTwist' - whatever that is. Someone with a clue - chime in.
    TFT simply refers to "thin flim transistor" which means its a standard active matrix screen. "Super twist" refers to the method of twisting liquid crystal molecules for better the contrast. Twist the crystal 90% and its called TN or twisted nematic and the contrast improves. Twist the crystal 140% and it's called called STN or "super-twisted nematic" and the contrast is even better. The reference to the screen being more usable in sun-light neans that it must be either reflecitve or tansflective in nature. Reflective screens basically use external light in the form of ambient light or front-lighting system. Thus reflective screens are excellent outdoors but are not as bright as backlit transmissive screens. Their big advantage is lower power consumption. Transflective screen are both backlit and reflective. Thus they use a translucent reflective backing that reflect some ambient light, but can also allow some backlighting to pass through. As a result transflective screen are good outdoors and brighter than reflective screen indoors... the best of both worlds. In the end, I hope the Treo 600 uses a transflective screen!


    Also, a 1600 or 1800 mAh battery!!!! WHOA. FYI that would be an even larger battery in the Tungsten C! Very cool!
  3. #43  
    To be exact, the "Super Twist" is Super Twist Nematic, which usally was shortened as STN. Treo 300 do use a color STN screen. I cannot understand why HAND insist on STN rather than Transflective TFT. The STN will suffer a slow response time (ghost effect) and less color (64k is difficult). Can hardly imagine that a device equipped with a camera use STN displays. I do want somebody can confirm if Treo 600 use a CSTN or TFT screen.

    Originally posted by elysian9
    To summarize the current known specs:


    - Not TFT - 'SuperTwist.' Somewhat smaller screen, better visibility in sunlight. Touchscreen.


    Did I miss something? Might be nice if this could be updated as/if more comes in.
  4. #44  
    Originally posted by sir_mycroft
    But somehow I get the feeling it will.
    What the heck is this?
  5.    #45  
    ok boyoz - I had to leave the conference. No pics - sorry, and I don't think the Handspring gang would have let me lurk around any longer, much less take any pictures. No digicam - sorry. Not with me (guess I need a Treo600 for that - oh wait - aaaaaa)

    Some responses:

    Overall impression: Whereas the current Treo family is about 65% PDA and about 35% phone, I'd say this one is...about 55% PDA and 45% phone. Just the fact that it is a candy bar style alone changes the impression dramatically. The screen looks about 15% or so smaller (no science here) but MUCH brighter. So am I jazzed about it? Hard to say - it's not COMPLETELY revolutionary, but the changes made to the 600 speak more to the pragmatist (camera, SD, more memory, ARM, OS5, etc) than to the emotional side. The only real compromise that I can see is that the screen size is smaller. I think that will be the main issue for current Treo users, but Handspring is trying to EXPAND the market, and sell new ones, rather than cater to their current users. I will say that the new Samsung Palm I500 that I also saw at the show had a screen even smaller than that of the Treo600 (it was a very nice phone overall tho - flip, small, thin, nice metal - no thumboard is a no-go for me, tho).

    So about the lack of flip lid. I agree that this is a two-sided issue. On one hand I want to have the screen protected, on the other hand, it's a bit of a pain to have to open the flip for some functions. I <think> the way they've implemented the d-pad (no more jog, by the way - that will no doubt incite some posts) has really allowed for real single handed operation. Here's what I mean:
    Based on the quick time I played with the phone, the D-Pad essentially takes the place of the functionality delivered by apps such as PowerJog - the d-pad would highlight certain fields (done, accept, etc) as you push right or left, and mashing the middle of the d-pad, of course, selects that field. So - you can now scroll with one hand, mash and dial, and then put the phone to your face. I didn't get much time to check it all out, but I think the overall benefit there will eliminate the loss of a protective lid (and remember what I said earlier about the protective plastic thing they put on the glass screen).

    Headphone jack/MP3 - ? Clueless here. Didn't check at all about that. Sorry. Let you down.

    Can't remove the battery.

    Use of thumboard - it's smaller, for sure. Might take a little getting used to for us, the current users, but newbies won't notice a difference, I would say. Our man Scott R won't like it, but others would take the compromises:
    smaller phone overall
    better screen
    longer battery
    SD slot (SDIO, by the way)
    etc
    etc
    but the trade-offs of smaller thumboard and smaller screen are overcome by the larger set of advantages.

    whew - I'm done.
  6. #46  
    Updated specs:


    - camera on top
    - camera flash unknown
    - camera megapixels unknown
    - SD slot on top (SDIO)
    - Thumboard on bottom
    - D-pad above the thumboard, the usual 4 app buttons. No JogDial
    - STN Screen (SuperTwist). Somewhat smaller screen, better visibility in sunlight. Touchscreen
    - No flip
    - Antenna stub on upper left
    - Somewhat longer but narrower than Treo 300
    - Case grey metallic plastic (gun-metal blue?), not metal
    - CDMA only. Sprint the only carrier.
    - ARM processor
    - OS5
    - 32mb onboard
    - Battery - either 1600 or 1800 MAh (non-removable)
    - Headphone jack, unknown
    - MP3, unknown
  7. #47  
    Again, nrosser, thank you.

    Regarding the smaller thumbboard, I am disappointed. But I reserve final judgement until I've actually had a chance to play with one first-hand. One of the things that I think hurts usability on the current design is that the keys are hard plastic and very close to the body which, I think, increases the chances of accidentally hitting a nearby key. Do you happen to remember if this new Treo might have more rubbery keys that protrude more? That could help.

    I'm still skeptical on the lack of a flip-lid. Why not have a flip lid that covers just the screen but leaves the thumbboard, app buttons, and d-pad exposed? Especially given the new far more useful d-pad functionality, you might only need to flip it open when you needed to actually enter data. Oh well.

    I'm definitely interested in this, but there are other devices I'm looking out for as well. I think my ultimate device remains the smallish Nokia communicator-esque mock-up I created a while back.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    (1) Why do you think it should be called the "TREO 600" forum?

    (2) The only words in either the CEO's or CFO's comment w.r.t. Sprint and the new product are the very vague:

    == "...we've been working with Sprint on our mutual plans for a
    == major new product expected this fall..."

    Handspring says a WHOLE lot more about Orange. We know what that means - right? There is no Sprint planned purchase at this time.
    1. Read the very first post in this thread. nrosser clearly indicates the model number Handspring has assigned to this model.

    2. Are you on crack? Of course Sprint is going to carry this device. Not only does Dubinsky say in no uncertain terms that they are working with Sprint, but Sprint is showcasing the thing with their label at their own conference!
  9. glenng's Avatar
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    #49  
    nrosser:

    thanks so much for providing all of this info for us.

    couple of wuick questions:

    Dpad above the thumboard? unlike the bottom-mounted dpad on the TW? also, is it like palm's in that you can press the center of the dpad to go back to the launcher screen?

    Anything info on a speaker phone?

    Thanks Again,

    GLenn
  10. #50  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    One of the things that I think hurts usability on the current design is that the keys are hard plastic and very close to the body which, I think, increases the chances of accidentally hitting a nearby key. Do you happen to remember if this new Treo might have more rubbery keys that protrude more? That could help.
    FWIW I've had several people tell me that the only thumb board model they ever liked was the BlackBerry, specifically because it had hard, low-profile buttons with snappy feedback. Rubbery keys are not fun for me, though the only exception I've seen so far has been the Sidekick. I think it's because that keyboard is much bigger.

    Hmm I think we forgot to ask whether it had Bluetooth. But I suppose with SDIO it would work. Still wondering if it's tri-band, since I think one of the other threads mentioned it might be.
  11. #51  
    It seems that HS is going more mainstream with this device, which is good news for the company. The key distinguishing feature from most other combo devices will be the keyboard. IMO, it won't be long before others start putting keyboards in their devices as well.

    As for the flip cover, I am mixed on it. I like the flip for protecting the screen and the fact that it has the earpiece in it actually makes the device shorter when closed. HOWEVER, the device just lookes humoungous when the flip is open and looks rediculous when put on face to talk. So I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. Like most things, there have to be some compromises, we lived with it in this version and I guess we'll get to experience life without it with the next. Incidentally, my unscientific sampling tells me that flip covers are a lot more popular in the US than in Europe or Asia. I am currently in the UK and I rarely see any flip phones being used or sold. I've noticed this for many years, so this visit to the UK is not my only data point.

    nrosser:

    Any idea if the camera is detatchable? It would be nice if one could carry a smaller device if he/she didn't need a camera. I'd like to think of it as an attachment rather than a built-in feature.

    I think I would be interested in this device if it's not too big. Any idea how it compares in size to, say, the P800? That has a large, rectangular screen yet is still very nice in size.
  12. #52  
    Originally posted by potatoho

    FWIW I've had several people tell me that the only thumb board model they ever liked was the BlackBerry, specifically because it had hard, low-profile buttons with snappy feedback.
    It might surprise you that I don't disagree with you on this. I've played with the original Blackberry a bit (the one that's rectangular and sized like a pager). As you say, the keys are close to the surface and hard plastic. However, the thumbboard is quite a bit bigger than the Treo's, and I think that makes a huge difference. In a device that has a smaller thumbboard, I think that making the keys rubbery and stick out more would improve the usability and decrease the chance of accidentally hitting the wrong keys. Part of this might be due to the fact that the smaller the thumbboard/keys are, the more apt you are to try and use your fingernail. Because of the hard keys on the Treo, you can't really use your fingernail, so you have to use your fingertip. But because the keys are close together and you have to press down fairly hard to get them to register, you run a higher risk of hitting a nearby key. YMMV, and yes I'm anal-retentive.

    If you have to squeeze a lot of keys into a small space, I think having keys that register easily, are rubbery, and stick out a lot would be the best combo. If you have a lot of space to work with, make the keys big and a little harder to register (whether the ideal substance for keys on a big, roomy thumbboard is rubber or hard plastic I'm not sure, but I'd probably lend towards hard plastic).

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  13.    #53  
    ok people - more info to whet the appetite.
    size larger than the P800, I think. I will admit the HAND booth was two away from the Sony booth and I couldn't have cared less about the SE wares - I don't recall the exact size of the P800, but I would guess the 600 falls someplace between that Kyo candy bar phone with the blue screen, and an OLD dark blue Mitsubishi phone that ATTWS used to sell - anyone remember that one?
    Keys - as I had indicated, they are 'domed', meaning they protrude up from the surface much more than the current ones. Maybe that will help with the tactile feedback.
    The d-pad is definitely above the t-board, btw the main 4 app keys. I don't know if it will mimic the back-to-launcher mode of the W, but I WILL say that they now have the ability to have apps and web pages in what we now think of as the speed dial buckets - so that would obviate the need to go back to the main launcher, for the most (looks like PowerJog will have a limited lifespan).
    Spkrphn? Clueless. didn't check for that (the HAND guys were keeping a tight 'lid' - heh - on the one or two they had there). Oh and the lid - I saw some Sprint guys talking to the HAND people, and they were very happy to not have to deal with flip lid failure returns anymore. I got the sense that Sprint drove that decision as much as anyone.
    Clueless about Bluetooth.
    No detach on the camera.
    (posted via the old technology of the Treoo300)
    Last edited by nrosser; 06/02/2003 at 11:51 PM.
  14. tarfin's Avatar
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    #54  
    NRosser is the T600 the 2nd device from the right in these pictures?

    http://3gwiz.com/viewarticle.php?id=8
  15. #55  
    Originally posted by tarfin
    NRosser is the T600 the 2nd device from the right in these pictures?

    http://3gwiz.com/viewarticle.php?id=8
    Looks like a Treo. "SPRINT" is Branded on the right, just below the antenna.
  16. #56  
    Although blurry, the writing on the bottom of the phone 2nd from says Sony Ericcson. You can just make it out.

    Here's a link: http://mobile.burn.com/news.jsp?Id=329

    To the left of that is the Hitachi.
    Last edited by SprintTreoUser; 06/02/2003 at 08:07 PM.
  17. #57  
    Wow, this board is alive again!
  18. #58  
    Originally posted by elysian9
    To summarize the current known specs:


    - camera on top
    - camera flash unknown
    - camera megapixels unknown
    - SD slot on top (SDIO)
    - Thumboard on bottom
    - D-pad above the thumboard, the usual 4 app buttons. No JogDial
    - Not TFT - 'SuperTwist.' Somewhat smaller screen, better visibility in sunlight. Touchscreen.
    - No flip
    - Antenna stub on upper left
    - Somewhat longer but narrower than Treo 300
    - Case grey metallic plastic, not metal (gun-metal blue?)
    - CDMA only. Sprint the only carrier.
    - ARM processor
    - OS5
    - 32mb onboard
    - Battery - either 1600 or 1800 MAh (non-removable)
    - Headphone jack, unknown
    - MP3, unknown



    Did I miss something? Might be nice if this could be updated as/if more comes in.
    This looks pretty good. It addresses most of my problems with the Treo 270. I'd rather have both a D-pad and a Jog Dial and would rather have a flip phone with a removable battery but the rest sounds like an improvement overall. My only concern is if and when a GMS version comes out (I use T-Mobile).
  19. #59  
    Originally posted by SprintTreoUser
    Although blurry, the writing on the bottom of the phone 2nd from says Sony Ericcson. You can just make it out.

    Here's a link: http://mobile.burn.com/news.jsp?Id=329

    To the left of that is the Hitachi.
    No keyboard on the SE. I think tarfin meant second from the left. Check it again.

    Sorry about that, you've got it exactly right. To the left of that is the Hitachi: http://www.pocketpccentral.net/hitachi_ppcs.htm
  20. #60  
    Yes, I said to the left of that is the Hitachi...which would be 2nd from the left.

    Hitachi G1000: http://www.pocketpccentral.net/hitachi_ppcs.htm
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