Page 24 of 30 FirstFirst ... 141920212223242526272829 ... LastLast
Results 461 to 480 of 589
  1. #461  
    Getting way off topic here. Start a new thread or get back to it.
  2. #462  
    Originally posted by elysian9
    Getting way off topic here. Start a new thread or get back to it.
    i suspect we have beat what little information we actually have quite to death
    Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.
  3. #463  
    Quite.
  4.    #464  
    Don't make a decision about the asthetics of the 600 based on the mockups you've seen - they are good work, and a good attempt, but they don't really capture the look of the new phone. The real thing is MUCH nicer, and more pleasing to the eye.
  5. #465  
    Originally posted by arkitekt
    .... reminds me of a palm tungsten (
    That's an extremely tough stretch even for the imagination. If anything the Treo 270/300, maybe with the lid sliced off, looks like a Tungsten. But even then...
  6. #466  
    True, it's a mock-up and not the "final" product ... but it looks more like a Palm and less a Treo ... the two companies DO have a very distinct product design. It's like comparing a Porsche to a Volvo. Hopefully they tweak it some more.

    On the good side I think it's great that they were able to further reduce the size of the unit ... I'm still not an advocate of the keyboard but I guess I'lll just have to learn and adapt. The camera and SDIO slot are an awesome bonus and if the TFT screen is color then it would be fantastic.

    As everyone seems to be saying ... let's wait and see what they finally come out with.
  7. #467  
    Speaking of mockups...at least one of us thinks the final form of the new product has not been finalized - that is, what has been seen is a prototype, not final form.

    (for example, someone who appears to have a very good asthetic sense mentioned more rounded corners, etc - don't remember who it was but he amy have illustrated something on this thread)
  8. #468  
    Originally posted by Gregg

    The rebate was provided because Handpsring/Sprint had originally advertised that VisorPhone was upgradeable to 2.5G / Vision. Due to the low sales volume they decided to it was not prudent to fund the design of the upgrade and hence offered the upgrade.
    umm, i didn't have a sprint phone, i had the vp and now have a 270.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  9. #469  
    Originally posted by Marty1781

    The market Handspring is catering to, OTOH, is the higher-end/tech-savvy consumer who wants his Palm and phone in one and is willing to pay $500 for it. Joe consumer is certainly not going to dish out $500 for some "phone." So when this device is out of reach of the average consumer yet lacks the features that the high-end consumer wants so they will not purchase it, that really does limit the potential market for the device.
    I am a Treo 270 owner and the prosumer you describe. The 'normal' people who see my smartphone usually say that they want one someday. They also would like to type SMS and e-mail in an easy way on their phone and have a good (integrated) addressbook and some of those other Palm apps I use. They just think it's just a bit too big compared to their three year old Nokia GSMs (GSM, yes a transatlantic posting). The lid is also too geeky for them, not kawaii.

    Some have a Palm at home gathering dust, but never on them because they just forget it. And grafitti is just to difficult for data-entry (they use the PC for that) and carrying both GSM and PDA is just too much. The like the concept of the Palm though, and see the potential. The Palm lies around at home as an address book, calculator, currency converter and electronic to-do list.

    If only the machine would be more like what we hear of the new Treo they are potential buyers. Price is not too much of an issue as long as they can see and touch it in shops everywhere. In the end it will be the boss or wealty retired parents paying for it or it's part of a deal with the GSM-provider like Orange. A few hundred euros would still be fine, above 500 euro would be too much. The Treo 270 does 760 euro now (in one of the few shops selling it), which is far too much.

    All together I conclude that Handspring is making a good move with this product. Certainly if it will be distributed through the Palm retailchannels and part of Orange GSM subscription plans, it would be splendid.
    ReindeR
  10. #470  
    Originally posted by reinder.rustema

    If only the machine would be more like what we hear of the new Treo they are potential buyers. Price is not too much of an issue as long as they can see and touch it in shops everywhere. In the end it will be the boss or wealty retired parents paying for it or it's part of a deal with the GSM-provider like Orange. A few hundred euros would still be fine, above 500 euro would be too much.
    I have to disagree with this. While price may not be an issue for the early adopters (who will be the first to purchase this device), if HS/Palm hope to market this device to Joe Consumer, price will certainly become an issue. The average consumer does not work for a company who will pay their for their cell phone and/or bill or have parents that will foot the bill for their new toy. The average consumer that Handspring is trying to reach is on a budget and cannot afford to drop $400 - $500 on a new phone. It is the higher-end consumer that can afford that and I don't know about everyone else, but I have a real problem dropping that kind of money on something that I feel is missing something so basic. Maybe I'll change my mind after actually seeing the device, maybe it will not be that expensive and maybe I'll end up buying one but at first look, no 320x320 screen does not put the Treo 600 off to a good start in my book. If HS/Palm sell this device at $400 - $500 and it only comes with a 160x160 screen, I do not think I will be able to bring myself to purchase one of these otherwise promising devices.
  11. #471  
    Originally posted by Marty1781


    if HS/Palm hope to market this device to Joe Consumer, price will certainly become an issue. The average consumer does not work for a company who will pay their for their cell phone and/or bill or have parents that will foot the bill for their new toy. The average consumer that Handspring is trying to reach is on a budget and cannot afford to drop $400 - $500 on a new phone.
    I don't think Palm/Handspring will be targetting Joe Consumer for quite a while yet. Joe Consumer still has to take some sort of interest in a phone with a lof of features, nevermind a PDA, or a smartphone. These devices only appeal to consumers that already have a cell phone and a Palm. Or at least want something that can do what a smart phone can. The average person does not need email on the road, does not care to surf the web. All they want is a phone they can punch some numbers into when they need to. Joe Consumer is meant to have a cheap cellphone, and if anything a Palm Zire, and even that is a big leap.
  12. vaylen's Avatar
    Posts
    30 Posts
    Global Posts
    35 Global Posts
    #472  
    I can't believe that some people think a 160x160 image on a small screen is okay as long as the screen is small with a low dot pitch. On a 2 inch by 2 inch screen, you can see four times as much information with 320x320 pixels as you can with 160x160 pixels... That's a fact. Here are two images I view all the time in my web browser to check freeway traffic conditions. As you can see, the image viewed in 320x320 is a readable image, while the 160x160 image is a blurry pixelated mess. So we are dealing with apples and apples I made the 160x160 image the same size as the 320x320 image for viewing... it's still using only 25600 pixels.
    http://www.members.aol.com/troykadam/web.gif
  13. #473  
    Originally posted by vaylen
    On a 2 inch by 2 inch screen, you can see four times as much information with 320x320 pixels as you can with 160x160 pixels... That's a fact.
    What's a fact is that you can display 4 x as much information on a 320x320 than a 160x160 screen. Whether you can see four times as much information depends on the size of the screen. The smaller the screen, the less benefit you'll get from the higher resolution because your eyes see less of the details. Looking at your example images, if I step back from the screen, simulating having smaller pictures, the extra details you could see in the image on the left start becoming less visible.

    What I said before, and still maintain, is that with a smaller screen, the advantage of the higher resolution would not be as pronounced as with a large screen. There would of course be a difference, but it would be less noticable (but noticable nontheless). The Treo already has a small screen (everytime I pick up a Palm 505 I feel that the screen is huge compared to my Treo). Of course, with perfect eye sight you could in theory just get arbitrarily close to the display to see all the details. But in practical terms, there is less of an advantage of higher resolutions the smaller the display size gets.
  14. vaylen's Avatar
    Posts
    30 Posts
    Global Posts
    35 Global Posts
    #474  
    What you are talking about is the law of diminishing returns. After a screen gets small enough, your eyes cannot keep noticing increases in resolution. Having said that, can you read stuff on a 2"x2" screen in 320x320 that you can't read on a 2"x2" screen that is in 160x160? You bet! That level has not been reached yet. How do I know this? It's easy, just set your monitor to a high enough resolution that a 320x320 window is about 2" by 2" on the screen, then take the 160x160 image and scale it to the same size (with no interpolation) and see if you can see the difference. There was still a major difference even on a 2"x2" screen. Could you tell the difference on a 1"x1" screen? Not nearly as much. That's the law of diminishing returns. But as long as they are using screens 2"x2", they definitely see a real increase in the information you can read on the screen if they go 320x320. Nowhere is this as important as when you are surfing the web, which as I see it, is really the killer feature of a combo palm/phone.
  15. #475  
    Originally posted by Appleman

    The average person does not need email on the road, does not care to surf the web.
    Have you heard about the phenomena called e-mail stress? People who don't get to any work done because they are eagerly awaiting a certain e-mail from a special person. In the snailmail days you would know the postman comes onely once a day. I am sure average people are prepared to pay extra if the e-mail they are waiting for pops up on the screen of their phone the moment it arrives. There should be some whitelisting incorporated in the mailreader (or server) to avoid the spam though.

    Of all people the secretary at work was most enthousiastic about my Treo 270. She said she could save money by buying a machine like that instead of a computer. Now she waits to get to work for that, she thinks a laptop at home is too expensive and she doesn't have the room for a desktop machine. Another girl I met also said she likes this smartphone because she is on the road a lot and has to connect her iBook to read her e-mail. Both said it was just a bit to big/heavy. One was considering to have a small phone she puts the SIM in when she goes out at night and have the SIM in the Treo during the day.

    In the end, while the functionality appealed to both, I think the looks of it (nerdish lid, big) and the price (760 euro) were the main obstacle. And they would wait for their current phone to break down or something before replacing it.
    ReindeR
  16. motown55's Avatar
    Posts
    12 Posts
    Global Posts
    14 Global Posts
    #476  
    Last night I spoke with a Wireless Web tech at Sprint PCS who said that he was told that 2-way SMS was coming but they didn't know when. Is it possible that this will make its premiere on the Treo 600?
  17. #477  
    I have a high-end IBM Thinkpad T series laptop with a 14.1" TFT screen that has a max resolution of 1400x1050. With these specs, the display has 124 pixels per linear inch, which makes for 248x248 resolution in a 2x2" patch. Larger displays are 15" and go to 1600x1200 resolution. On these you would get 266x266 in a 2x2" square. These values are well below the desired 320x320 resolution that we all wish the new Treo would have. Now, as I said, these are the resolutions for high end laptops, which means that they are expensive. In addition, these are not touch screens.

    Therefore, it is safe to assume that using 2x2" screens that are of higher pixel density than high end laptops AND touch sensitive would add a significant cost to the price of the unit. I don't even know if manufacturing such displays is possible today, but I'll leave that to someone with more knowledge about LCD technology to comment on. The bottom line, however, is that they would be expensive.

    Now, what about non-standard resolutions that would be better than 160x160 but not as high as 320x320? Palm OS 5 has native support for single and double "density" screens, which are the two above numbers. If Handspring went with a non-standard resolution, they would have great incompatability issues with third-party software.

    All in all, I think it is safe to assume that HS took this decision for difficult but sound economic reasons. It is possible that this really is a compromise they just had to make to create a viable device that sells to a larger segment of users than just extreme high-tech early adopters.

    I only hope that their design is flexible enough (and that they see a somewhat significant potential market) for them to offer a version with the more expensive high resolution displays. I am not holding my breath though. I think we may have to wait for the next generation (when LCD prices have dropped low enough) before we see a higher resolution display on a Treo.

    I am interested to see how much the SGH-I500, if it is ever realeased (with a 320x320 display), would sell for.
    Last edited by silverado; 06/08/2003 at 08:43 AM.
  18. #478  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    Don't make a decision about the asthetics of the 600 based on the mockups you've seen - they are good work, and a good attempt, but they don't really capture the look of the new phone. The real thing is MUCH nicer, and more pleasing to the eye.
    i agree.

    my guess is in less than 1 month the specs and pics of the treo will be released. Hawkins pic was just a teaser.
  19. #479  
    Originally posted by reinder.rustema


    Have you heard about the phenomena called e-mail stress?
    Hmmm, re-read what you just quoted me saying.

    And I guess the average person is dealing with this? I don't think so. You just came up with a very specific situation to address the average Not logical.
  20. #480  
    Wrong. The most important thing is total resolution, because that puts up an impenetrable barrier regarding how much information you can display at once. Dot pitch is a completely secondary concern. If one considers the dot pitch to be too small, one can always move the display closer to one's eyes, assuming one doesn't have uncorrected farsightedness. Even in the latter case, there's always the possibility of selecting larger fonts. The reverse situation does not hold. If the screen res is only 160x160, there's nothing you can do to view more information all at once. You can scale down a 320x320 bitmap to 160x160, but it's very likely that essential detail will be lost. Alternatively, you can make a 320x320 virtual screen with a 160x160 window that can pan around the four quadrants, but this is very awkward. In all the debate about resolution in this thread, I'm surprised so few mentions have been made of the web browsing experience. Besides wireless email, that's clearly the killer app for a converged cell phone / PDA, and it's the one application that benefits the most from a higher resolution screen, since except on a few mobile-optimized sites, you're dealing with content designed for desktop web browsers with much higher resolutions.
    Although screen resolution is important, we also have to keep in mind that as resolution goes up and screen size stays more, the dpi raises. With a color, touch screne LCD, this would mean that we're jacking up the price by quite a bit, maybe enough that it's not economically feasible to be used in the new Treo...

Posting Permissions