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  1. #321  
    Originally posted by TomiJ
    Who wants to surf for an hour on ANY phone?
    UGH...what do call the Treo? BTW, you wouldn't be surfing on the T608, you would be surfing on your BT enabled pda! Also, the T608 will have a replaceable battery unlike the Treo 600...

    Anyway back the issue of the STN display: it seems the reason for HS choice of this technology is the low power consumption and cost. What type of increased power consumption would have occurred if they had used a 320x320 rez instead of 160x160? This must be the critical factor here b/c the differences in power consumption must have been great!
  2. #322  
    Originally posted by aarons12


    everything is compromise.
    You must be married... LOL
  3. #323  
    Originally posted by paulhorne


    You must be married... LOL
    for the moment (just kidding, dear)
    Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.
  4. #324  
    FYI: PDAFrance posted an interesting pic showing the similarity the new Treo 600 has with TI's MS smartphone reference design. This is essentially the same thing as the unrelease Compal Avenger and etc...

    http://www.pdafrance.com/img/dossier...2/dscn1020.jpg

    The Treo 600 will obviously be smaller though...
  5. tarfin's Avatar
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    #325  
    22,000 + viewings of this thread in about 3 days. Whether you like it or not there is a TON of interest in the new Treo. Hope this means that it will encourage Palm/HS to iron out ALL the bugs/quality issues before shipping, even if it runs a little long.

    Personally I'm disappointed that the display isn't hi-res. My employer just switched to issuing SJ-22s and the difference in clarity between my Treo 300 and the Sony is amazing. I REALLY hope that the screen estimation is wrong and Jeff Hawkins didn't go with the low-res.
  6. #326  
    Wonder if Jeff or his minions are reading this as we speak, and possibly rethinking their decision (if in fact the screen is 160x160). It may be too late to change the 600, but perhaps not too late to change the 540 (or whatever theydesignate the GSM version).

    Ah we can always dream

    TM
  7. #327  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic
    it seems the reason for HS choice of this technology is the low power consumption and cost. What type of increased power consumption would have occurred if they had used a 320x320 rez instead of 160x160? This must be the critical factor here b/c the differences in power consumption must have been great!
    I'm sure Hawkins is going with 160x160 over 320x320 for three reasons:
    1) Cost.
    2) He figures, with a screen this small, 320x320 would be difficult to get the maximum benefit of.
    3) He's a minimalist who probably figures that all those super-powered Office apps don't belong on a Palm OS device (let alone a smartphone) to begin with.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #328  
    BTW, if anyone here care's to come take a look, I finally got around to posting an article about all of this on my web site (http://goodthatway.com). There aint nothin' new there that you don't already know from perusing this site, except for maybe some minor tweaks that I made to my mockup based on the latest critiques (e.g. - I shortened the phone a bit and brought the thumbboard closer to the bottom). You can also now see that mockup in all its high-res glory (and see all of the defects of my rushed Paint Shop Pro craftsmanship) by double-clicking on the image in my article.

    My site isn't a direct competitor of treo|central since it covers all manner of gadgets and technology (not just PDAs/smartphones even) and I even provided a link back to treo|central in my article.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. tarfin's Avatar
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    #329  
    Good job on the mockups Scott.
  10. #330  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    I'm sure Hawkins is going with 160x160 over 320x320 for three reasons:
    1) Cost.
    2) He figures, with a screen this small, 320x320 would be difficult to get the maximum benefit of.
    3) He's a minimalist who probably figures that all those super-powered Office apps don't belong on a Palm OS device (let alone a smartphone) to begin with.
    Perhaps it's the same reason the old Handspring devices had ROM instead of flash

    Because he wanted to save an insignificant buck or two. That's the only thing that kept me from being a Handspring customer until the Treo line.
  11. #331  
    2 questons.
    1) what is an SD slot (what do your use it for?)
    2) what will Java Scripting do for me?

    I am very excited about this new machine-especially if the battery is really twice as strong. I have been a treo 300 user for 9 months and except fo the slow learning curve (before Idiscovered TREOCENTRAL) I absollutely love it. I would not take any amount of money for my unit.
  12. #332  
    Originally posted by potatoho
    Perhaps it's the same reason the old Handspring devices had ROM instead of flash
    I have a love/hate relationship with Hawkins. I really admire him for developing the original Palm Pilot. I also tend towards his way of thinking on many subjects in terms of focusing on serving a purpose rather than just integrating "cool" features for the sake of the features themselves. That said, he can be stubborn too. He may have used non-flash ROM because he wanted to save a couple bucks, but I always wondered if he did it simply because he, having designed the original Palm OS and now being out of Palm, Inc. (and thus, out of being able to control the path that OS updates would go), felt like his "baby" (the Palm OS) was "done" and that Palm, Inc. couldn't really improve upon it. It's a shame and I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt Palm as well. Back when Handspring was first started, they were essentially Palm's one and only licensee. I wouldn't be surprised if Palm held back a little in terms of updating the OS with major features because they didn't want to break compatibility with Handspring devices.

    Of course, that's all speculation. I'm glad he's back with Palm. I look at it like the relationship that Steve Jobs supposedly (I'm not a Mac user) had with his usability folks way back when. Supposedly he was always more interested in eye-candy and got into a lot of arguments with his usability folks who tended towards the minimalist approach. The end result, though, was good. Many years later, after returning to Apple and assuming a more dictatorial role, he let the eye-candy team run amok and disregarded much of the usability teams' opinions. The result was OSX which is very pretty but took several steps backwards in terms of actual usability as compared to the pre-OSX Mac OS. Again, I'm no Mac expert (by any stretch), so feel free to take my off-topic comments with a grain of salt.

    My point simply being that even the "geniuses" among us can tend to be a bit stubborn with their ideas, and it's good to have a little bit of democracy with varying opinions. With Hawkins being part of the team but not "running the team," he may not be super-happy but I think that PalmSG could still thrive as a result. That said, part of me is still unclear if he'll actually be part of PalmSG or PalmSource. I think the former, though I personally would almost rather him be part of the latter.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  13. #333  
    Speaking of flash ROM, have you read about the mini-furor Sony is causing re: the TG-50? One guy at cliesource.com wants to start a class action (though he got shot down pretty badly!)

    Apparently until recently the TG-50 device had flash ROM. Recently, w/o announcement, Sony supposedly switched to non-flashable ROM. Putting aside for the moment the facts that Sony never advertised the flash ROM to begin with, and that Sony has never released a user upgradeable OS update, I guess it's not too surprising that more manufacturers are cutting costs in this way. Of course it also helps the mfrs by forcing people to upgrade their devices (if the user wants to new OS)...

    TM
  14. #334  
    Originally posted by jfscars48
    2 questons.
    1) what is an SD slot (what do your use it for?)
    This is the memory/expansion slot. SD (secure digital) cards are the newer versions of MMC (multi-media card?) memory cards. They're about the size of postage-stamps. SDIO (secure digital Input/Output) cards take it one step further by letting you actually use the slot for expansion (i.e. - non-memory) cards, such as Wi-Fi (wireless networking) cards, Bluetooth (short-range wireless "cable-replacement") cards, miniature digital cameras that plug into the SDIO slot, etc. The Treo 600's slot is SDIO compatible, so you'll be able to plug in all sorts of neat things, so long as Palm OS5-compatible drivers get developed for them.

    Originally posted by jfscars48
    2) what will Java Scripting do for me?
    Probably not much. JavaScript is a client-side scripting language which executes within your web browser. It's a fairly full-featured computer language, but it's typically used for things like "rollovers" (i.e. - you roll your mouse over a button on a web site and it changes color). Some sites use JavaScript for other types of logic, so having JavaScript support in a PDA browser may allow you to gain access to certain sites that a non-JavaScript-compatible browser would not. NOTE: Don't confuse JavaScript with Java. The syntax is similar, but they are two very different things.


    Originally posted by jfscars48
    I would not take any amount of money for my unit.
    How much would you be willing to buy mine for?

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15. chuckde424's Avatar
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    #335  
    What interfaces did it sport?
  16. #336  
    Originally posted by anthonymoody
    Apparently until recently the TG-50 device had flash ROM. Recently, w/o announcement, Sony supposedly switched to non-flashable ROM. Putting aside for the moment the facts that Sony never advertised the flash ROM to begin with, and that Sony has never released a user upgradeable OS update, I guess it's not too surprising that more manufacturers are cutting costs in this way.
    Not to plug my site again, but...This is one of the relatively gaping holes that I hope to accomplish with my web site: consumer advocacy. I haven't gotten on that soap-box yet, but it's part of what I hope to accomplish with my site.

    One correction: Sony has offered some OS upgrades in the past, but that was a while ago (from what I remember - I've never owned a Sony PDA personally).

    I've noticed that non-Flash-ROM Palm OS devices seem to becoming quite the norm and it concerns me greatly. Even Palm itself used to always have Flash ROM. When they started to introduce non-Flash PDAs in their budget line, it didn't seem like a big deal. But now they're even doing it with the $300 Zire 71. Of course, having Flash ROM is only half the battle, you have to actually offer an OS update. Again, Palm used to be fantastic. You could upgrade the original Palm Pilot up to a fairly late version of the OS. Now what's going on? There's still no OS upgrade for the Tungsten T (just some patches). It's still at OS 5.0, but OS5 is up to 5.2 now, I think (though I should note that I absolutely hate the concept of Graffiti 2, but that's a rant for another day/board).

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  17. #337  
    Originally posted by cyber_ops
    all the talk about these kewl phones are nice... but there is something that i haven't seen addressed. why can't these phones hook up to ANY carrier??

    most of the phones i've seen are are sprint or t-mobile. i personally have verizon. true, verizon has the new 7135 but why can't they make phones that you buy, and then hook up to any carrier?

    is this too much to ask? or maybe i'm missing some secret marketing ploy so that certain carriers get certain phone to try and make more people connect.

    in this age of 'choose your own' i think we should be able to pick the phone and the carrier we want to use.
    That's why I love GSM unlocked phones.....buy your phone anywhere you like and buy a sim card from your carrier (Rogers AT & T in Canada will sell you one for their network for $20) and you're set... CDMA sucks in that respect
  18. #338  
    BTW thanks for great Photoshop renderings of the new Treo 600 Scott R ... u be a star dewd
  19. #339  
    Originally posted by fredster


    That's why I love GSM unlocked phones.....buy your phone anywhere you like and buy a sim card from your carrier (Rogers AT & T in Canada will sell you one for their network for $20) and you're set... CDMA sucks in that respect

    Supposedly ?? there is legislation going on right now that will allow just that! You buy your phone .. and you're able to .. w/switching of some hw and sw .. switch from carrier to carrier.

    This should .. make the phone mfg(s) .. get more competitive in designing a few "good" phones that customer's will stick with .. and force carriers into providing flexible (competitive) plans.

    Who know .. one may wish to have different carriers for different NAMs on the same phone??
  20. #340  
    Originally posted by fredster
    That's why I love GSM unlocked phones.....buy your phone anywhere you like and buy a sim card from your carrier (Rogers AT & T in Canada will sell you one for their network for $20) and you're set... CDMA sucks in that respect
    Sorry to contribute to getting us severely off-topic, but I did want to ask about this. I realize that the various networks in the US are a drag. I buy a phone and when my contract is up I can't move to another network with that same phone (assuming I don't want to just upgrade to a new one, which is probably not the case these days anyway). But, outside of the US, aren't you paying a good deal more for your unlocked phones than we pay for equivalent phones? Yes, we're locked into Sprint (or whatever) for a year, but we're getting our phones at a big discount.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.

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