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  1.    #281  
    The keys are not very rubbery. They feel about the same, in texture, as the current keys. They are round, rather than oval. They are also all in straight rows - they don't curve like the current keyboard does.
    In terms of their height - the apex of each key is about twice as high as the current keys (but remember, they're domed, so they're different). The keys looked to me like the ends of little Tylenol caplets - not the gel caps (red and yellow) but the white ones. Clip like the last two millimeters off of those, and you have the new Treo600 thumbboard keys.
    Last edited by nrosser; 06/04/2003 at 02:50 PM.
  2. #282  
    mockups good, the color was much darker as i remember it (like i said earlier hawkins looks like a earlier prototype). nrosser, wasnt it darker to u?

    nrosser is right about the dpad (just look at the one hawkins is holding), i was doing the best i could from memory (remember it was a sketch 5 hours after i saw it).

    AS if have posted several times - there is NO free space (no space at the bottom). guys u must understand that - we just can remember exactly how the keyboard looked - it went all the way down to the bottom of the t600. its just difficult to make it fit from memory... keep that in mind as u look at it. . . the mock up is very good (just keep in mind we cant remember how the keyboard exactly fit the whole bottom part.

    the keys are not rubber, they are hard plastic. it will not catch in your pocket.
  3. #283  
    Looking at the latest mock-up I can't say I'm that eager to switch from my Treo 300. The keyboard does make it look more like a geek PDA than a phone, and I guess I liked the fact that the 300 covered the keyboard with a flip-down. I'm all about simplicity and elegance, and I loved the form factor of the 300 (albeit too big and boxy). I always assumed the next version would be a) half as thick and smaller, b) hi-rez screen a la Tungsten, and c) Bluetooth. (I was only 1 for 3?)

    I think the ideal solution would have been to cover the keyboard with a pull-down section like the Tungsten T -- then it would actually look like a phone, and be smaller in your pocket. Oh yeah. That's it baby.

    I never thought I'd say it, but for the first time I'm actually open to something else besides the Treo now. Maybe holding a 600 will sway me, but I'm going to start poking around a little...

    And for anyone with time to kill, how about a side and rear-view mockup? LOL (ok I'm serious).
    Last edited by paulhorne; 06/04/2003 at 02:24 PM.
  4. #284  
    (Mr Risin' if your nasty) (ala Janet) LOL

    It doesn't take much to crack me up!!!!!!!!!

    So, if I understand you correctly-

    The keys are a moot issue???

    If so, fantastic. But, like I said before; I am purchasing this phone. I have already envisioned myself walking in the Sprint Store and telling them that I am there to purchase the *NEW* Treo 600. Followed by the salespeople informing me that they are sold out and that there is a 6 month waiting list for this particular model. Then she tells me that I CAN get an awesome deal on this piece of crap..eeerrrrrrrrrrrrr.....BEAUTIFUL Samsung i500. To which my reply was to break everything in the store and cry like a little blubbering baby.........

    WHEW back to reality, where all I have to do is wait. Somebody create a "countdown timer" for the release of my new cool hybrid.


    Time to check my blood pressure...............I'm so excited and I just can't fight it, I'm about to lose control and I think I like it!!!!

    LOL
  5. #285  
    Samsung SGH - i500:

    300 MHz processor
    320-by-353 pixel TFT LCD
    External 256 color, 96-by-64 pixel, OLED screen
    GSM/GPRS (900/1800,1900)
    Removable 1100 mAh battery, 1700 mAh available
    Camera has built in flash
    Clamshell design

    Treo 600:

    QWERTY Thumboard
    CDMA
    Candybar design

    Unless I am missing something here, it seems like everyone who is terrible excited about this phone is so merely because of the (inconveniently small) thumboard, since the Samsung phone, demonstrated at CeBit three months ago is superior to the Treo 600 in nearly every respect.

    Is an (inconveniently small) QWERTY thumboard worth it?

    Oh, well, Handspring, I was with you from the start. I guess it is fitting that now that you are no more, I move on to greener pastures.
  6. #286  
    Originally posted by sir_mycroft
    Samsung SGH - i500:

    300 MHz processor
    320-by-353 pixel TFT LCD
    External 256 color, 96-by-64 pixel, OLED screen
    GSM/GPRS (900/1800,1900)
    Removable 1100 mAh battery, 1700 mAh available
    Camera has built in flash
    Clamshell design

    Treo 600:

    QWERTY Thumboard
    CDMA
    Candybar design

    Unless I am missing something here, it seems like everyone who is terrible excited about this phone is so merely because of the (inconveniently small) thumboard, since the Samsung phone, demonstrated at CeBit three months ago is superior to the Treo 600 in nearly every respect.

    Is an (inconveniently small) QWERTY thumboard worth it?

    Oh, well, Handspring, I was with you from the start. I guess it is fitting that now that you are no more, I move on to greener pastures.
    How do you know it's inconveniently small if you haven't used it yet? I was thinking about the keyboard when using my Treo today. I noticed (for the first time) that the keys are way too flat. One has to press all the way down to get the key to register (and to feel it well with the fingertip). Now if they are rounded like I could see in the picture, one would not have to press so much to get it to register. To me, this adds more effective space around the keys... space that is unused because your finger doesn't get there.

    Put another way, the distance between the keys now have to be measured from key boundaries. In "domed" keys, the effective distance between keys (i.e., the distance that matters for usability) can be measured between round/oval boundaries that are well inside of the actual key boarders. This results in more effective space between the keys than meets the eye.

    Also this is a comparison between vaporware. Samsung products have been very late. Samsung doesn't seem to care about missing expected release dates. Handspring clearly has a product relatively close to release, but they aren't making big announcements with specs etc yet. I think they are sensitive to both competition and missing promised dates and features. Thus, with Samsung's track record on timely delivery, it might be safe to assume that the Treo 600 would coome out before the SGH-I500. In that case the comparison really isn't useful.
  7. #287  
    A smaller thumb board that the one on the Treo I already find inconveniently small, no matter how well designed, will unlikely be any more convenient.

    I would hesitate to assume handspring can releas the Treo any faster than Samsung, since it has been years since they tried to realse anything.

    But all this is besides the point, being, is a tiny thumb board worth the purchase of an inferior product?
  8. #288  
    Originally posted by silverado

    Thus, with Samsung's track record on timely delivery, it might be safe to assume that the Treo 600 would coome out before the SGH-I500. In that case the comparison really isn't useful.
    I don't think there is any question that the Treo 600 will be released before the SGH-I500. Samsung starting showing off the SPH-I500 during Spring 2002 and it still hasn't been released. With the SGH-I500 only being announced 2 or 3 months ago, I think it will be quite some time (possibly an entire year) before it actually hits the shelves. Handspring reps at the show (as well as Dubinsky in a conference call), OTOH, have all said to look for a September/October release.
  9. #289  
    Here's my latest and greatest mock-up. Changes:

    1) Rounded the top a decent amount and the bottom slightly (though Craig initially indicated that it was definitely rectangular, so there may be some disagreement about this).

    2) D-Pad made wider, app buttons no longer arcing.

    3) Thumbboard keys made round and brought closer to the bottom.

    See it here:
    http://goodthatway.com/temp/treo_new6c.jpg

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10. #290  
    Unfortunately, i500 will be released in this month. Check this:

    http://3gwiz.com/viewarticle.php?id=8

    Originally posted by Marty1781


    I don't think there is any question that the Treo 600 will be released before the SGH-I500. Samsung starting showing off the SPH-I500 during Spring 2002 and it still hasn't been released. With the SGH-I500 only being announced 2 or 3 months ago, I think it will be quite some time (possibly an entire year) before it actually hits the shelves. Handspring reps at the show (as well as Dubinsky in a conference call), OTOH, have all said to look for a September/October release.
  11.    #291  
    But there's still too much space below the thumbboard.
    (I feel like the art critic who stands back and raises his nose at the latest attempt by his favorite artist - 'what you are trying to say here, Rene', is that man is woefully inadequate at overcoming his existential misgivings').
    But pretty close overall - there's some various silver colorations throughout that aren't obvious, and lend to a more hip-ish look overall. Maybe a silver border around the screen area, or some other place - I can't recall.
    I just wonder when we'll see the official announcement or pics, etc, and then it'll be funny to compare what we came up with here, to the real thing that I saw on Monday.
  12. #292  
    Originally posted by sir_mycroft
    A smaller thumb board that the one on the Treo I already find inconveniently small, no matter how well designed, will unlikely be any more convenient.

    I would hesitate to assume handspring can releas the Treo any faster than Samsung, since it has been years since they tried to realse anything.

    But all this is besides the point, being, is a tiny thumb board worth the purchase of an inferior product?
    Two points:

    1. I don't think we'll see the SGH-I500 before the Treo 600, so we're most likely comparing a product to vaporware. Vapor can always win.

    2. I really don't consider it inferior at all! Let's look at the specs:

    - 300MHz vs 133: what am I going to do with the additional speed on my handheld? It's unclear that I'd gain much.

    - Resolution: remains to be seen. See my other posts on the matter.

    - External display: not needed in the Treo.

    - GSM vs. CDMA: We all know that a GSM Treo product is in the works. Just because it wasn't demo'd, doesn't mean it ain't coming. Orange signed up and talked about ordering large quantities.

    - Removable battery: The treo starts with a larger batter AND has an option for added battery.

    - Camera with flash vs no flash: I don't really care. I wish the Treo didn't even have a camera. Cameras IMO are only a ploy by carriers to get you to send more data and pay them for it.

    - Clamshell design vs not: that's not a feature.

    So I don't see the inferiority you're talking about. Some are a matter of taste and personal preference, but this list doesn't make the SGH-i500 a clear winner unless you are just counting features, not utility and usability.

    I happen to think that a thumb-board adds a great benefit to such a combo device. Having to pull the stylus to do something is a big minus in my book. Without a keyboard, you will definitely have to do a lot of that. What if you can't use the other hand, as is often the case when using a mobile phone? The Treo with the D-Pad and the thumb board, you can keep the stylus in a lot longer! Is failing completely to perform a task because your other hand is busy better than having a (possibly) small keyboard?
    Last edited by silverado; 06/04/2003 at 04:18 PM.
  13. #293  
    Originally posted by UGlee
    Unfortunately, i500 will be released in this month. Check this:

    http://3gwiz.com/viewarticle.php?id=8

    Which i500 is this? SPH or SGH?
  14. #294  
    Originally posted by sir_mycroft
    Samsung SGH - i500:

    300 MHz processor
    320-by-353 pixel TFT LCD
    External 256 color, 96-by-64 pixel, OLED screen
    GSM/GPRS (900/1800,1900)
    Removable 1100 mAh battery, 1700 mAh available
    Camera has built in flash
    Clamshell design

    Treo 600:

    QWERTY Thumboard
    CDMA
    Candybar design

    Unless I am missing something here, it seems like everyone who is terrible excited about this phone is so merely because of the (inconveniently small) thumboard, since the Samsung phone, demonstrated at CeBit three months ago is superior to the Treo 600 in nearly every respect.

    Is an (inconveniently small) QWERTY thumboard worth it?

    Oh, well, Handspring, I was with you from the start. I guess it is fitting that now that you are no more, I move on to greener pastures.

    Been reading this forum for almost a year--- finally my first post.

    I believe the thumboard is worth a lot. I was originally angry that the color treos didn't have a graphtii model. But once I had the thumbboard --there was no going back. It changes the device from a novelty to an essential part of my everyday life.

    I can type nearly as fast on it as on my PC keyboard.
    I type half of my email on this device. I find myself IMing with VeriChat on my treo while sitting in front of my computer. I set up accounts and restart my unix boxes on the treo. I use it to open up holes when I'm outside of the firewall.

    All things I could have done on my old visorphone. ... but I didn't .
    Why not? Yeah the connection was slower, but really it comes down to the thumboard. I even bought one for my Visor but never had it with me.

    The Samsung seems even worse than my Visor for data input. I can imagine how incredibly awkward it would be to write on the top part of a flip phone. Most of the specs are pretty comparable to the SGH - i500, some are better, some are worse. The processor is important, but with the Zire 71 Iím not too worried about it. Iím sure things will run pretty well on the treo600 for quite some time. At least until Iím ready for a new one I am disappointed in the lower resolution screen, mostly from a software compatibility standpoint.

    I do think the Treo600 will be out first. It may be as much a business decision as a technical one. I canít see Samsung releasing both the SGH - i500 and the SPH - i500 in the same quarter.

    If I were to jump to conclusions without having actually seen the Samsung screen couldnít I ask:

    Is an unreadable hi-res screen really worth it?
  15. #295  
    Originally posted by Marty1781

    I don't think there is any question that the Treo 600 will be released before the SGH-I500. Samsung starting showing off the SPH-I500 during Spring 2002 and it still hasn't been released. With the SGH-I500 only being announced 2 or 3 months ago, I think it will be quite some time (possibly an entire year) before it actually hits the shelves. Handspring reps at the show (as well as Dubinsky in a conference call), OTOH, have all said to look for a September/October release.

    Originally posted by UGlee

    Unfortunately, i500 will be released in this month. Check this:

    http://3gwiz.com/viewarticle.php?id=8
    Sorry but that was not what I was referring to. My post concerned the SGH-I500, not the SPH-I500. The SPH-I500 will be released shortly. I believe the SGH-I500 will not be released for several months if not a full year.
  16. #296  
    Originally posted by silverado


    Which i500 is this? SPH or SGH?
    SPH
  17. #297  
    1. read this link:
    http://3gwiz.com/viewarticle.php?id=8

    Greg said i500 will be shipping this month.

    2. I do worry about the CPU speed of Treo 600.

    I think the video streaming is an IMPORTANT new application for a smartphone over high-speed 3G network. In many aspects, Treo 600 seems to be optimized for this purpose. First, power consumption. It is equipped with a huge battery volume. Second, screen resolution. Standard low-res simply saves 3/4 memory bandwidth than that of a device with hi-res when blitting images onto screen. 160x120, 64k@30fps is a good setting for a small device. I doubt if 320x240, 64@30fps video could be fluently played back on i500 even though it has a 300MHz. Noting that this is also a hard task for a PPC with similar specs. Even if you interpolate 160x120 video to 320x240 one, many unnecessary bandwidth and memory and cpu time will be wasted. In short, I consider a low-res screen is a sage choice than a hi-res one when focusing on video streaming applications. Up to now, no detailed info about the CPU in treo 600 is availble other than its speed. It is probably an OMAP 1510 from TI, also possibly a Dragonball MX1 from motorola. No matter where it come from, could it decode the data stream and play them back at an good rate? I doubt it. There exists a possibilty. If HS really focused on such application, they should adopt TI 1510 chip and develop a software library supporting the dsp core. Then we can get everything in our hand: good decoding speed/fast blitting and rendering the screen/decent battery life.

    I do hope so, really. I consider the video application a very important feature for the wide acceptance of 3G network to the mass market. But here, at least one thing showed that they may not take serious attention to video apps: the camera is located on the backside and cannot point to the talker. Sad.

    Originally posted by silverado


    Two points:

    1. I don't think we'll see the SGH-I500 before the Treo 600, so we're most likely comparing a product to vaporware. Vapor can always win.

    - 300MHz vs 133: what am I going ot do with the additional speed on my handheld? It's unclear that I'd gain much.

  18. #298  
    "is a tiny thumb board worth the purchase of an inferior product?"


    Sorry, that's the wrong question. The correct question is:
    "Does a tiny thumb board make it a superior product?"

    And the answer, for almost everyone who's ever switched from stylus based input to hard keyboard (i.e. thumb board) input, the answer is absolutely positively yes - all you have to do is ask. After a PalmPilot 1000, Palm III, V, and Vx, I went to a Treo 180 then a 270, then to a PocketPC Phone Edition (which I still have). The thing I miss most? The hard keyboard. This is the first device I've seen that has me *considering* switching back to a Palm OS based device.

    That said, I still wont buy it with a 160x160 screen, no matter how perceptibly 'high quality' the screen looks showing the launch page and built in apps. Fill factor notwithstanding, it STILL won't look good with the many (and growing) high res games and other apps out there. Or more accurately, it wont (cant) look nearly as good as it would on a 320x320 screen. In fact, it is an open question whether the Treo 600 could render the graphics of a program designed for 320x320 at all. Any programmers familiar with OS5 who can elucidate...please do.

    As for the prior post: re streaming video, for me this is a non event. I do this on my PPCPE and it sucks (not streaming, stored actually - either way, I dont want to see video on a screen this size). I do agree with the concerns about the processor speed in general though. The Treo 270 and 180 always felt a little sluggish...never snappy. I want snappy.

    TM
  19. #299  
    Originally posted by silverado


    Two points:

    1. I don't think we'll see the SGH-I500 before the Treo 600, so we're most likely comparing a product to vaporware. Vapor can always win.

    2. I really don't consider it inferior at all! Let's look at the specs:

    - 300MHz vs 133: what am I going to do with the additional speed on my handheld? It's unclear that I'd gain much.

    - Resolution: remains to be seen. See my other posts on the matter.

    - External display: not needed in the Treo.

    - GSM vs. CDMA: We all know that a GSM Treo product is in the works. Just because it wasn't demo'd, doesn't mean it ain't coming. Orange signed up and talked about ordering large quantities.

    - Removable battery: The treo starts with a larger batter AND has an option for added battery.

    - Camera with flash vs no flash: I don't really care. I wish the Treo didn't even have a camera. Cameras IMO are only a ploy by carriers to get you to send more data and pay them for it.

    - Clamshell design vs not: that's not a feature.

    So I don't see the inferiority you're talking about. Some are a matter of taste and personal preference, but this list doesn't make the SGH-i500 a clear winner unless you are just counting features, not utility and usability.

    I happen to think that a thumb-board adds a great benefit to such a combo device. Having to pull the stylus to do something is a big minus in my book. Without a keyboard, you will definitely have to do a lot of that. What if you can't use the other hand, as is often the case when using a mobile phone? The Treo with the D-Pad and the thumb board, you can keep the stylus in a lot longer! Is failing completely to perform a task because your other hand is busy better than having a (possibly) small keyboard?
    Look, you are rationalizing, which is fine if you think the keyboard is worth it. But please, to say you would rather not have more MHz is not being completely honest. The same with the battery life. I have never owned a phone that had enough, having the option to switch in a new one without using up the SD slot is a benefit clearly. And finally, we have no evidence to suggest that the Treo will meet its expected launch date (the same as the Samsung) with any more success. There are many, many factors that go into the approval by the FCC and the carriers. And finaly, just like Handspring, Samsung can produce a CDMA version of their phone too, as long as we are talking vaporware.
  20. #300  
    Text looks so much better on a high res screen. I don't think I could convince myself to go without it for another generation.

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