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  1. #41  
    I did receive some information which may help. I was told that the Treo 300 radio does go into low power mode when out of coverage for 15 minutes, and then it does a network search at 3 minute intervals. If there is user interaction, lid open, display tap, key press etc, then it exits low power mode and starts over.

    Makes me wonder a little bit. I'm wondering if my "super quick drain" (i.e. dead within say 45 minutes) was contributed by one of my applications attempting a network connection due to failure. I say this because I had a 2 minute reschedule in my code when my mail retrieval would fail, and coincidentally due to increased traffic here in town, my network connections have often failed.

    Dunno. I've changed my code to not reschedule and I'll see if I get the nasty super quick drain again. That's the one which really kills me.

    rkassim: "Can't someone write a third party app that very simply.."

    Interesting idea. I didn't really want the wireless to be turned off completely, since I go in/out of coverage all the time. But I'll look into whether it can be done silently. There actually are some options whether certain progress dialogs appear but I'm not sure of the extent.
  2. #42  
    Originally posted by potatoho
    Makes me wonder a little bit. I'm wondering if my "super quick drain" (i.e. dead within say 45 minutes) was contributed by one of my applications attempting a network connection due to failure.
    I was actually just thinking about this today. I was going to ask if anyone who was having major battery drain problems was using an email program which did periodic fetches. I recently bought SnapperMail and between my poor network coverage inside my house and the fact that SnapperMail (and, I assume, all similar apps) turns on the screen when "doing its thing", I'm thinking that I could have some serious problems if I have it set to do periodic fetches as often as I'd like. I'm thinking through how I want to configure it.

    Scott
  3. #43  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    ..and the fact that SnapperMail (and, I assume, all similar apps) turns on the screen when "doing its thing", I'm thinking that I could have some serious problems if I have it set to do periodic fetches as often as I'd like. I'm thinking through how I want to configure it.
    Does SnapperMail have SMS triggered fetches? I don't see it listed on the site, but I assumed it had something in beta. It's the best way to go.

    The situation I had was where let's say I got an SMS trigger, but then the fetch failed due to network busy. The way my code was written it would reschedule a fetch at 2 minute intervals from then on until success. I've changed that for now, though it means I don't have an option for re-attempt other than either getting another SMS trigger or fetching manually. The solution is to test for specific failure status codes -- i.e. if it was just a network busy then retry x times, but if it was a "no service" then don't retry or something like that.
  4.    #44  
    Beyond hacks etc, I dont have _too_ much running. TreoSMS mainly, but that doesn't cause a problem...

    "I did receive some information which may help. I was told that the Treo 300 radio does go into low power mode when out of coverage for 15 minutes, and then it does a network search at 3 minute intervals. If there is user interaction, lid open, display tap, key press etc, then it exits low power mode and starts over."

    -Has anyone ACTUALLY confirmed that?
  5. #45  
    Originally posted by potatoho
    Does SnapperMail have SMS triggered fetches? I don't see it listed on the site, but I assumed it had something in beta. It's the best way to go.
    Is there such a thing as an SMS fetch? I thought SMS was used by some programs for instant messaging, but for email I don't see how it would work, other than perhaps for a simple push message to inform the user that they got new mail. Maybe you could use it to inform the system that there's new mail which would then trigger the PDA to do a fetch. That might not be a bad idea. But that would require a desktop PC or proxy server to manage your account, no?

    But to answer your question, I don't believe SnapperMail uses SMS in any way. It connects to the network at an interval that you set to check for new mail. So it could certainly drain the battery pretty quick in blinking red zones.

    Scott
  6. #46  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    Is there such a thing as an SMS fetch?
    Scott's program NotifyMail does SMS triggers for several programs. He added support for mine, and I love it. I just send an SMS to the device with a particular text string, and he gives my app a launch code so I know when it's time to retrieve mail.

    NotifyMail has options for; Mark/Space Mail, SnapperMail, and GNUGotMail. I guess I should have checked that myself, since it appears that SnapperMail does have some kind of SMS trigger support.

    As to whether it would require a desktop PC or proxy server, that sorta depends on how much intelligence you need. Some people prefer to send an SMS trigger for each incoming mail. That would only require a forwarding rule somewhere. I didn't want that many SMSs so I just put mine on a cron for 10 minute intervals if mail is present. I also have a touch file for when my mail was last retrieved, so I don't get a million SMSs when I turn my device off for awhile.

    At any rate, SMS triggering is great. Because it doesn't require the data to be active all the time, it decreases the likelihood of missed calls. And it let's you, from your server etc, control the priority of when you want your message to arrive on the device. For example, you might decide that a high-priority message would immediately send an SMS trigger rather than waiting a particular interval.
  7. #47  
    Originally posted by potatoho
    As to whether it would require a desktop PC or proxy server, that sorta depends on how much intelligence you need. Some people prefer to send an SMS trigger for each incoming mail. That would only require a forwarding rule somewhere. I didn't want that many SMSs so I just put mine on a cron for 10 minute intervals if mail is present. I also have a touch file for when my mail was last retrieved, so I don't get a million SMSs when I turn my device off for awhile.
    That sounds great. Can you tell me more? I bought SnapperMail. How would I configure SnapperMail to work this way? As you said, this would solve two problems: 1) Decreased checking by SnapperMail (= longer battery life), and being alerted to high priority emails right away. Would you be willing to share how you have your cron job configured or any other scripts, or just point me in the right direction? I'm a web developer but I haven't played with cron too much.

    Scott
  8.    #48  
    im having all those same problems without using snappermail or notifymail btw.
  9. #49  
    potatoho, I guess i misunderstood about NotifyMail. I just took a look at their web site and it looks like it requires a client to run on my PC. I got the impression that I could set something up on my website to send an email to my SMS address when new mail came in. Or am I missing something?

    Scott
  10. #50  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    potatoho, I guess i misunderstood about NotifyMail. I just took a look at their web site and it looks like it requires a client to run on my PC. I got the impression that I could set something up on my website to send an email to my SMS address when new mail came in. Or am I missing something?
    Just the NotifyMail palm application is needed. Not sure what the other stuff is. The NotifyMail app lets you enter a string to match, and a choice of Mail applications to notify. When an SMS arrives with that substring match, it will send a custom launch code to the chosen mail application.
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    That sounds great. Can you tell me more?
    Install NotifyMail (just the palm app). Enter your trigger text, and pick SnapperMail from the list, and turn it On etc. Then send a test email to your_number@messaging.sprintpcs.com and see if it causes SnapperMail to begin a mail fetch.

    I use cron for that, but only because I happen to use cron to retrieve my mail on my PC. My script is a little complicated because I compare dates on my mailbox file to a temp file I touch within my POP process. I do that to try to keep from sending too many SMSs.. i.e. I won't send another if my device hasn't done a mail fetch since the last one.

    Here's my script I run from cron.

    #!/bin/sh

    LASTPOP="/tmp/mailcheck-sprint-lastpop-treo"
    LASTSMS="/tmp/mailcheck-sprint-lastsms-treo"

    send_sms() {
    touch $LASTSMS;

    (cat <<EOF
    From: Me <me@a.b>
    To: my_cell_number@messaging.sprintpcs.com
    Subject: Got new mail

    sometexttrigger
    EOF
    ) | /usr/lib/sendmail -oi -t
    }

    if [ $LASTSMS -nt $LASTPOP ]; then
    T1=`date +%s`
    T2=`date +%s -r $LASTSMS`
    T3=`expr $T1 - $T2`
    # failsafe -- if it's been over an hour, send another SMS
    if [ $T3 -gt 3600 ]; then send_sms; fi
    exit;
    fi

    # mbox changed since lastpop?

    if [ /var/spool/mail/treo -nt $LASTPOP ]; then
    send_sms
    fi
  12. #52  
    Thanks! Now, I'll just have to brush up on my cron skills. I'm actually even thinking of possibly not bothering with NotifyMail at all (I'm cheap). With your approach, I'd just get an SMS notifying me that I have new mail, and then I could just do a manual fetch.

    Scott
  13.    #53  
    wow we left topic quickly
  14. #54  
    Originally posted by rkassim
    wow we left topic quickly
    Prolly my fault as usual..

    Anyways. I did some testing with PhoneLib yesterday and watching the signal level, registration status, and events during signal loss. I haven't come up with a solution for disabling the aggressive network search mode yet.

    I did try everything I could think of.. i.e. recognizing when registration was lost and then trying to force it into thinking it still had it. No success.. There was nothing I could do to keep it from hanging out in the network search mode, other than turning off the radio power.

    The good news is that it looks to be pretty easy to rig up some work-arounds if we can agree on some methods. I've been putting together a utility to combine the usual work-arounds; phone on reset, stay on with lid close & network activity. Someone mentioned they wanted to change the auto-off for when the lid is down, I'll add that too.

    I just have to make an icon & come up with a good name, and also add that last feature. Maybe another day or two of work.

    I'm thinking there are some other things I want too. Like auto-ok'ing some of the annoying network dialogs. There's actually a system pref for whether the network progress dialog hangs around on error, but no pref for the network search (when you first power on radio), so I'll have to do that one myself -- I have a technique for that.
  15. #55  
    Utility names? TreoFix, TreoRaid, TreoRadioFix, TreoOff, TreoHelper, GNUFixedTheRadio. I got nothin.
  16.    #56  
    paint me impressed. What enviroment are you using to dev?
    All this without the HS development kit? or did they finally release it?

    TreoMagic, "What Handspring should have included to begin with," TreoUtil, TreoSuite (my fav)

    If you turn off the radio power, does it show the annoying "goodbye" screen? if so, then it'd be counter productive showing those screens every, say, 2 minutes. Else, that sounds like it could work.

    Could you make a screen for info about Signal Xmit Strength in mW and other network diagnostic features for figuring out stuff like this in the future?

    Agreed with the auto ok of the network.

    Any way to FORCE the radio unit to use a lower strength .. if you cant shut it off completely, at least you might be able to drop it to 1mW from 500 ever few minutes. Did you find any evidence of the "low power mode" that HS has told us that they included?

    What methods do you need agreement on?

    If you need ANY ideas/help/anything, IM Rizwank or ICQ 6849717 or rizwank@nospamplease.ucla.edu (remove obviously)

    -Rizzy
  17. #57  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by rkassim
    What enviroment are you using to dev?
    All this without the HS development kit? or did they finally release it?


    Regular prc-tools. Handspring headers have been out for a while, and the PhoneLib SDK came out in late Feb I believe. I use PhoneLib for most everything here.

    TreoMagic, "What Handspring should have included to begin with," TreoUtil, TreoSuite (my fav)

    I already registered TreoHelper today. Sorry.

    If you turn off the radio power, does it show the annoying "goodbye" screen? if so, then it'd be counter productive showing those screens every, say, 2 minutes. Else, that sounds like it could work.

    Yes it shows goodbye, same as holding down the power button. That coverage loss feature is only to turn it off. There's no provision to turn it back on, other than after a reset or by the ontime/offtime (i.e. on at 8AM off at 11PM) you set.

    Could you make a screen for info about Signal Xmit Strength in mW and other network diagnostic features for figuring out stuff like this in the future?

    I don't have the power load on there yet. It currently has signal strength, and call status. Signal strength appears to be in dB on the 300, though the docs say it is supposed to be otherwise. The call status is a bitmap of things like, voice1, voice2, data connected, data active. I use that to determine whether the data is "active" (i.e. green arrows), and that goes along with the stayon feature.

    Agreed with the auto ok of the network.

    I couldn't do it. There was no clear way and I didn't want to hack it. I do have a program specific way I auto-ok the connection progress, and I do that in my applications which run non-interactively.. because otherwise they basically stick there forever and hinder any datebook alarms etc.

    I had thought there was an auto-ok preference for the connection progress dialog, but I was mistaken. It's actually just a parameter to a function, rather than a system wide preference.

    Any way to FORCE the radio unit to use a lower strength .. if you cant shut it off completely, at least you might be able to drop it to 1mW from 500 ever few minutes. Did you find any evidence of the "low power mode" that HS has told us that they included?

    What methods do you need agreement on?


    I was kinda trying to force something, but there's not a whole lot I want to touch. I think we agree that when it goes into network search, that's where the big draw comes from. I can determine through registered events when it switches modes, and so that's how I know what mode it's in. I was trying to force it into "registered" mode by setting the provider to the last known one, but I'm not even sure those functions are connected to anything on the 300.. as it's my believe that lots of things are hardcoded to Sprint.

    At some point I'd like to do some more testing and to chart the power load during idle times. AFAICT there is no particular indication from within PhoneLib that the radio has gone into low power mode. I would need to get the battery stats, which I believe I've seen some detailed ones in the Handspring headers.

    The application is complete now. I'm just waiting on someone with a GSM device so I can make sure nothing funky happens. There's a limit to how much phone stuff you can test from the emulator.
  18. #58  
    Here is the initial version of TreoHelper.

    - Enable phone on reset.
    - Define a daily "On time" and "Off time".
    - Stay on (lid close) while network active (green arrows).
    - Set Auto-Off time for lid close.
    - Turn off phone after xxx minutes of coverage loss. This feature is sorta what we talked about as a work-around for super quick drain mode. I can't say it's really solved anything.

    It's really a pretty simple application, as the Treo and PalmOS do support these features already. For example, the Auto-Off lid time is a Handspring preference, but there was no application around to set it. The Stay On is done through the notification manager's standard deferSleep parameter of sysNotifySleepRequestEvent.

    At any rate, I haven't tested on GSM physical devices (180/270/Visor) as I only have the emulator for them. I have a Treo 300 and that's the physical device I do test on, in addition to the emulator of course.

    So that's pretty much a warning of sorts

    If you are inclined to try the BETA version, here it is http://rallypilot.sourceforge.net/work/treohelper.zip -- It's a GPLd project.
  19. #59  

    "What Handspring should have included to begin with,"
    -Rizzy
    Only thing I disagreed with Rizzy, in your interesting post, was this part of your suggestion.

    IMHO, I always find it a turnoff when a subdeveloper markets an add-on with a slogan that takes a slap at the innovator or company that released the original product.

    Pioneers can't think of everything to pack in advance of their great adventure into uncharted territories, and what they can't think of in advance makes a market and a living for those who make and sell the extras along the roadway.

    Regards,

    NateS
    Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!
  20. #60  
    Originally posted by NateS
    Only thing I disagreed with Rizzy, in your interesting post, was this part of your suggestion.

    IMHO, I always find it a turnoff when a subdeveloper markets an add-on with a slogan that takes a slap at the innovator or company that released the original product.
    I think that there are certainly applications where this is accurate, though. Sometimes a developer leaves out something that they really should have included. I'm not sure that this is one of them, though I'll probably be installing it myself. KeyCapsHack might fit that description for me.

    Scott
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