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  1. #21  
    Paging (one- way & two-way), which Blackberry is, is the most robust form of wireless messaging. It was paging that was operational after the attacks. I always tell technicians & administrators to use this simple & cheap service for time critical messaging. The wireless phone networks are too complex & congested to be depended upon for time-critical applications. Data is a secondary function on wireless phone networks. BTW, I was once a paging System Technical Manager...
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by triplespear
    Paging (one- way & two-way), which Blackberry is, is the most robust form of wireless messaging. It was paging that was operational after the attacks. I always tell technicians & administrators to use this simple & cheap service for time critical messaging. The wireless phone networks are too complex & congested to be depended upon for time-critical applications. Data is a secondary function on wireless phone networks. BTW, I was once a paging System Technical Manager...
    Interesting point. Yeah, it's been my experience that most of the time I get my SMS notifcations of incoming email (with the help of my sms_biff) near-instantaneously, but there are often several hours (and sometimes even multiple days) per week when Sprint's SMS is either severely delayed or is down completely (and in this latter case messages sent in the interim do not come once SMS is back up -- they are lost to the ether...).

    It's been some weeks since I last noticed this happen, though...
  3. #23  
    Any chance for an app to kick me out of the web connection when a call comes in?
    Sent from Treo 300.
  4. #24  
    No, because the Treo never knows a call is coming in. I don't see what the big deal is, really. The time you spend actually sending/recieving data is really quite small, and you get the voicemail message as soon as its left anyway.
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    No, because the Treo never knows a call is coming in. I don't see what the big deal is, really. The time you spend actually sending/recieving data is really quite small, and you get the voicemail message as soon as its left anyway.
    I'm not sure it's working that way for me - it seems that if I don't remember to hit "disconnect" after checking Eudora email, I miss calls for quite some time thereafter. Also, is it really only blocking calls when you check email? What about browsing websites?

    The logic of setting things up this way escapes me - given the choice, wouldn't most users prefer to be bumped off the web to receive calls rather than vice-versa? Aftyer all, it's not likely anyone would be using their Treo for large downloads.

    I read you when you say "it can't be done" and I lack any knwledge with which to refute that, other than the fact that so many software geniuses come up with workarounds for so many things first perceived as "no-can-do"s!

    Regards,

    NateS

    Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by NateS
    I'm not sure it's working that way for me - it seems that if I don't remember to hit "disconnect" after checking Eudora email, I miss calls for quite some time thereafter.
    It's easy enough to test -- just try calling your phone from another phone while the arrows are either green or grey. I just tried it, and if the arrows are green, the Sprint service answers the call almost immediately with the message:

    Your Name is currently busy...
    If the arrows are grey, the caller will instead hear continual ringing until your Treo eventually gets the call and starts ringing, at which point you get the Answer / Ignore popup.

    Also, is it really only blocking calls when you check email? What about browsing websites?
    Did anyone claim it was only when checking email? No, it's whenever you're transferring data (the network activity arrows will be green, in applications that show them).

    The logic of setting things up this way escapes me - given the choice, wouldn't most users prefer to be bumped off the web to receive calls rather than vice-versa? Aftyer all, it's not likely anyone would be using their Treo for large downloads.
    Hmm. I'd say it depends on the person. Whether downloads are large or not, it just depends on whether you use your Treo in a more data-centric or voice-centric way. I've certainly been in situations where, say, I was trying to look up some product info on the web to see whether I should buy something at a store I was at (which was about to close soon), and I missed a call during this time. I was glad about this and didn't return the call until I had successfully made my purchase prior to the store closing.

    I read you when you say "it can't be done" and I lack any knwledge with which to refute that, other than the fact that so many software geniuses come up with workarounds for so many things first perceived as "no-can-do"s!
    It's likely to be a limitation of the 1xRTT network, and not something that's fixable via software. Be thankful that with the 1xRTT data connection that you can have it up and still receive incoming calls. With circuit-switched data connections, you can't receive incoming calls while the connection is up regardless of whether or not you're currently sending data.

    GSM/GPRS devices are a little better than 1xRTT devices in this respect. I believe that with them, you can receive incoming calls even if you are currently receiving/transmitting data. (I take it this was your experience with the Treo 180, SpecRacer?) And with "class A" GPRS devices (none of which existed yet, last time I checked), you can have data and voice going simultaneously. I believe successors to CDMA2000 1xRTT are to add this latter capability as well (not sure if there'll be an in-between step adding the former capability).
    Last edited by Dan Harkless; 01/08/2003 at 08:00 PM.
  7. #27  
    Just to succinctly clarify regarding the green and grey arrows:

    The green arrows mean that the data connection is in use(regardless of whether data is actually being transferred at the time). At those times, a phone call cannot be received.

    The grey arrows mean that the data connection is open, but not currently in use.

    A lack of arrows indicates that the data connection is closed. Data (SMS isn't data in this context) can't be received/sent until a service connection is made.

    The data connection remains in use for some seconds (around 10) after the last data transfer; therefore, the smallest unit of data transfer time is in that range. An example: A program that checks for eMail every minute will use the data channel at least one sixth of the time, regardless of whether it can even access the server! In reality, the process with pop3 servers will typically take twice that long, which is why polling for mail very frequently will make a Treo increasingly useless as a phone.

    Does this make sense?
  8. #28  
    I use Snappermail, and in the preferences you can limit the amount of each email you want downloaded. Mine is set to download about the first 20 lines only.. That way I'm not downloading an entire 50k spam mail. Important personal email is usually a lot shorter than spam. This method shortens email retrieval time greatly.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by mblank
    Just to succinctly clarify regarding the green and grey arrows:

    The green arrows mean that the data connection is in use(regardless of whether data is actually being transferred at the time). At those times, a phone call cannot be received.

    The grey arrows mean that the data connection is open, but not currently in use.

    A lack of arrows indicates that the data connection is closed. Data (SMS isn't data in this context) can't be received/sent until a service connection is made.

    The data connection remains in use for some seconds (around 10) after the last data transfer; therefore, the smallest unit of data transfer time is in that range. An example: A program that checks for eMail every minute will use the data channel at least one sixth of the time, regardless of whether it can even access the server! In reality, the process with pop3 servers will typically take twice that long, which is why polling for mail very frequently will make a Treo increasingly useless as a phone.

    Does this make sense?
    Thank you very much for a very "user-friendly" explanation.

    At least now I can understand and interpret what is occurring, even if I don't necessarily agree with the preference given to data on the Treo. I appreciate it.

    Regards,

    NateS
    Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!
  10. #30  
    NateS

    I agree with you that the priority given to data is wrongheaded. In the best of all possible worlds, you'd be given a choice...
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by Dan Harkless

    . . .

    Did anyone claim it was only when checking email? No, it's whenever you're transferring data (the network activity arrows will be green, in applications that show them).

    Hmm. I'd say it depends on the person. Whether downloads are large or not, it just depends on whether you use your Treo in a more data-centric or voice-centric way. I've certainly been in situations where, say, I was trying to look up some product info on the web to see whether I should buy something at a store I was at (which was about to close soon), and I missed a call during this time. I was glad about this and didn't return the call until I had successfully made my purchase prior to the store closing.
    . . .
    I also appreciate your response.

    I got the impression that the author of the title to this thread was suggesting that it was something which occurred only when checking email. I questioned that limitation because I too did not see a distinction between email and web-browsing as an issue.

    Your explanation as to the perspective depending upon whether the user is more data-centric or voice-centric makes sense, but I wonder what your educated guess would be as to what percentage of users are choosing a Treo for data-centric use vs what percentage of users are choosing a Treo for voice-centric use. The implication in my question is that I would guess that most purchasers are thinking of combining voice phone and palm functions when selecting a Treo, and the web accessibility is a nice extra feature. I would guess that most data-centric purchasers would be looking at other products and would represent a much smaller percentage of Treo owners.

    I could of course be totally wrong on this - it's just a hunch.

    Regards,

    NateS
    Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by NateS
    I got the impression that the author of the title to this thread was suggesting that it was something which occurred only when checking email.
    No, it's just that as a Blackberry user, that was the type of data the author was most concerned with.

    Your explanation as to the perspective depending upon whether the user is more data-centric or voice-centric makes sense, but I wonder what your educated guess would be as to what percentage of users are choosing a Treo for data-centric use vs what percentage of users are choosing a Treo for voice-centric use. The implication in my question is that I would guess that most purchasers are thinking of combining voice phone and palm functions when selecting a Treo, and the web accessibility is a nice extra feature.
    Could very well be, but I think it's a moot point. I don't think the Treo 300's behavior in this respect is a design decision on the part of Handspring -- I think it's a limitation of the CDMA2000 1xRTT network.

    Can anyone who's used "normal" (data-enabled) phones on PCS Vision verify what happens if you receive a call while doing a web or email download? The same thing as the Treo, right?
    Last edited by Dan Harkless; 01/08/2003 at 07:56 PM.
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by triplespear
    Paging (one- way & two-way), which Blackberry is, is the most robust form of wireless messaging. It was paging that was operational after the attacks. I always tell technicians & administrators to use this simple & cheap service for time critical messaging. The wireless phone networks are too complex & congested to be depended upon for time-critical applications. Data is a secondary function on wireless phone networks. BTW, I was once a paging System Technical Manager...
    I was contemplating whether as we moved into true 3G cell network territory, whether cell phones might finally obsolete pagers, but this thread on the Kyocera Smartphone site talks some more about reliability (and also coverage) of the pager networks vs. SMS over cell phone networks, and also brings up the point that in hospitals, wireless transmitters are disallowed for fear they might interfere with medical equipment (a ban that, like the cell phone ban on airplanes, is apparently more cautionary than prescriptive). So doctors, at least, still need 1-way pagers. Of course with a 1-way pager there's no receipt verification, so a fair portion of the robustness of 2-way networks as used on the Blackberry is lost...
  14.    #34  
    Hi all, sorry for starting this thread then disappearing for awhile. I was testing the T-Mobile PPC phone. In a word, hate it, since it doesn't stay connected to GPRS when the screen goes asleep. Also miss the real keyboard.

    So, I'm back to my Treo 180.

    Dan Harkless, you were right in that when my data connection is actively transferring data via GPRS (say, loading a big web page with pictures), incoming calls **DO** come through on my Treo 180.

    However, I must say that the coverage is better with Sprint in my area, so I may try out the Treo 300 for a week to see if I ever miss a call because I'm transferring data.

    I like the SMS notification idea. I think I'll try that.

    I must say that using SnapperMail with this 180, I'm pretty happy. Hopefully, my experience would be the same with the Treo 300.

    Will try it and let you all know, but for now, am not yet fully ditching my Blackberry 957 and Samsung Sprint PCS voice phone.

    John
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by SpecRacer
    Hi all, sorry for starting this thread then disappearing for awhile. I was testing the T-Mobile PPC phone. In a word, hate it, since it doesn't stay connected to GPRS when the screen goes asleep.
    Oof. And no option to change, that, eh? That really sucks. How long does it take to reconnect the GPRS?

    Did you find out whether this design is inherent to the Pocket PC or whether it's unique to the T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition unit (AKA HTC XDA / AKA AT&T Siemens SX56 / AKA ...)?
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    I've used a GPRS enabled 180 and a 300. The email fetching speed is really no different. It has to do with the differences between latency and sustained transfer speeds. Frankly, the setup works wonderfuly, but if you didn't like it on the 180, it isn't a big step up in speed to the 300. Sorry 'bout that one.
    The interactive protocols, such as POP3, tend to be very slow on wireless networks. I think it's a lost cause to use them directly from the device.

    I've gone to using an http-based protocol, which uses PHP to do the interactive POP3, and sends back a result stream over the http connection. It's like 100million times faster than POP3 native. Particularly because PHP supports gzip and I use ZLib on the Treo so the stream is also compressed.

    The main speedup is that there is no interaction between messages, which always used to take like a second or two. So now messages just stream as if you are recieving a web page.

    I just downloaded 158 messages in 62 seconds on my Treo 300. Yeah baby!

    I'm trying to form a BlackBerry-like replacement. So I'm on the same page as you. With my current setup it is very close. Nearly every time I look at the device it has some new messages, and I don't often see it doing it's thing. The message retrieval is based on an SMS trigger via Scott Gruby's NotifyMail.

    The downside is that this solution is really not going to make it to more than a few people because it requires a considerable effort to set up your own servers & stuff. But I really don't think there is any other way, POP3 from the device just isn't going to cut it with the latencies involved -- unless you are talking about only a few messages per day. I'm +300 msgs /day on my Treo 300.
  17.    #37  
    Potatoho, I'm all ears. I do have my own email server, but am not a programmer and am not unix/linux conversant (sorry). Is what you're talking about, streaming POP via HTML, doable on a Win2k server platform? I'm guessing yes, that all I have to do install Apache?

    If so, I would love a step-by-step guide for what you're talking about if possible. If it's too complex, then no problem.

    Thanks.
  18.    #38  
    Dan, it appears that the "feature" of disconnecting from GPRS when the screen goes off is a function of the PPC, not just T-Mo's implementation. Very disapppointing, as it usually takes at least 5-7 seconds to connect and get bits moving, and many times for me, doesn't reconnect at all.

    Since I really like having a keyboard, I will wait to try PPC again until this comes out See the one on the left

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postid=203940
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by SpecRacer
    Potatoho, I'm all ears. I do have my own email server, but am not a programmer and am not unix/linux conversant (sorry). Is what you're talking about, streaming POP via HTML, doable on a Win2k server platform? I'm guessing yes, that all I have to do install Apache?

    If so, I would love a step-by-step guide for what you're talking about if possible. If it's too complex, then no problem.
    Well, it's not really that complex. Other than to be aware that it's pretty bare-bones.

    http://rallypilot.sourceforge.net/#GnuGotMail

    The server-side stuff for httpop is:

    http://rallypilot.sourceforge.net/work/POP3-stuff.zip

    You'll need a POP3 server, Apache with PHP4 support, and you'll need to hack the httpop.php a little to maybe take out the "touch" line if you don't want it. I use a touch file to help optimize my auto-downloading, which is just a cron-based thing for sending out an SMS trigger.

    I didn't write class.POP3.php3 but it's very cool and easy to use. You can see that my httpop.php is just a variation of his sample -- only 50 lines of php.

    If you look at the source of GGM, you'll see that when "Use HTTP" is enabled, it makes an http request with your user/pass etc as POST parameters. So that's the URL you need to place the php files at, basically / on your server. GGM uses the pop server and port to connect, so they should be server-colon-port of whatever your Apache is running on.

    Sorry to derail yet another thread

    To bring it back on topic.. yesterday I was trying to show my friend the cool ringtone I had, and everytime I turned the device off, my GGM would start doing a mail pop (I have it SMS triggered). Argh.. I wish the voice would take priority.
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by SpecRacer
    Dan, it appears that the "feature" of disconnecting from GPRS when the screen goes off is a function of the PPC, not just T-Mo's implementation. Very disapppointing, as it usually takes at least 5-7 seconds to connect and get bits moving, and many times for me, doesn't reconnect at all.
    Ugh. Any idea if this is also the case for the Audiovox Thera / Toshiba 2032, a CDMA 1xRTT Pocket PC? Hopefully not, though whatever's the case on the Thera doesn't necessarily reflect on the forthcoming CDMA Pocket PC Phone Edition devices like the Hitachi Multimedia Communicator and the Samsung SPH-i700, since the 2032 is just running the base Pocket PC OS with a third-party dialer application.

    Since I really like having a keyboard, I will wait to try PPC again until this comes out See the one on the left

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postid=203940
    I presume you're talking about the Hitachi Multimedia Communicator, but your attachment link just gives a vBulletin "Invalid attachment specified." error when clicked on.
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