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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by cody
    All in all, I don't think there is another phone/pda out there that will give you as much bang for your buck as the 7135. Nice job Kyocera!
    Good post cody. Those of us over at the smartphonesource.com 7135 forum have been drooling over the 7135 since back in June. I thought you made a very good point about the difference in weight between the 7135 and Treo... quality casing is going to weigh more than cheap plastic. I definitely don't think that the tradeoff is worth it.

    The Treo vs. 7135 is almost a silly comparison to make (except that they are both considered "smartphones")... the 7135 just flat out blows the Treo out of the water.

    And I feel bad for all the people for whom the Treo 300 (and 270) did not meet their expectations (lots of negative comments). Those of us that are dying for the 7135 feel very confident that we are betting on the winning horse in the smartphone race... and after the 7135 comes out I am doubting that there will be anything but overwhelming praise for Kyocera on our board.

    And by that time Sprint PCS had better get their 3G act together!
    Robert
    Please visit my moblog, Robert-O-Rama
  2. #22  
    couple other things you might want to know that the rep told me:
    -he said that Sprint has not yet ordered the 7135, but felt confident they would based on the fact that Verizon has. Assuming Sprint bought them, it would be out in October/November
    -Kyocera will also package a lot of software with the 7135 like photo suite software, MP3 software, Eudora e-mail, and a Eudora HTML browser that supports graphics and javascript

    silverado, your right it, it all boils down to preferences. As a big grafiti user, comfort is paramount, and writting grafiti on the 7135 was actually more comfortable than the clie I've been using for the past year. As to the Treo's external caller id, I didn't see it there or at the website, unless you are referring to the see-through window to the palm screen. If that were the case, I would have to actually take the phone out of the holster in order to see who is calling, instead of just glancing down. After going to Handspring's website, I also know why the display is duller, its only 12bit 4,000 colors vs. 16bit 65,000 colors. Big difference! In my opinion, take it FWIW, if I had a Treo on Sprint, I would take it back and let Sprint go through its "growing pains" with 3G. Come October I'll be ready to use their 3 months of free data at 3G speeds on the 7135, unlike all the early adopters here who will be suffering through with a weaker product (in my opinion!)...
  3. #23  
    Hopefully Kyocera will consider a keyboard version...
  4. paz5559's Avatar
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    #24  
    Form factor won't work, and since they already have a keypad, why would they bother?
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by paz5559
    Form factor won't work, and since they already have a keypad, why would they bother?
    I don't know, maybe for all us Blackberry brats.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by silverado:

    This doesn't change the fact that Dan Harkless's intention probably is to use only the PDA part on the plane.
    Correct -- I only meant the PDA part. But a plane was just one example of when you might be away from outlets for awhile. There are other cases (outdoors, or maybe at an all-day conference) where being able to swap out the battery would come in handy, and where you would also be using the phone part.

    However, it might be a good idea to unscrew the antenna off of the device before one even gets on the plane.
    I guess that's one hidden disadvantage of units like the T-mobile PocketPC Phone Edition that don't have a removable antenna.

    Also, keeping it open with stylus in hand will probably help people in understanding that it is a PDA.
    Yup, although it'd be a shame to have to do that on a device with a built-in keyboard like the Treo. If the flight attendant was clueful, the external switch on the Treo that turns off the phone section should be more convincing than units that use a software switch to turn off the phone part (not sure how the 7135 will be in terms of that).


    Originally posted by cody:
    After going to Handspring's website, I also know why the display is duller, its only 12bit 4,000 colors vs. 16bit 65,000 colors. Big difference!
    Fewer colors don't make a screen "duller" -- they just make gradients more banded. It's the screen technology (e.g. reflective vs. transflective vs. back-lit, active vs. passive) and implementation details (e.g. max brightness of the frontlight / backlight) that affect that.
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by Dan Harkless

    Correct -- I only meant the PDA part. But a plane was just one example of when you might be away from outlets for awhile. There are other cases (outdoors, or maybe at an all-day conference) where being able to swap out the battery would come in handy, and where you would also be using the phone part.

    I guess that's one hidden disadvantage of units like the T-mobile PocketPC Phone Edition that don't have a removable antenna.

    Yup, although it'd be a shame to have to do that on a device with a built-in keyboard like the Treo. If the flight attendant was clueful, the external switch on the Treo that turns off the phone section should be more convincing than units that use a software switch to turn off the phone part (not sure how the 7135 will be in terms of that).
    I just took a two plane trips over the weekend (in addition to many domestic and international flights before that) and I used the Treo 180 again without any problems or comments. It's funny that I was self-concious this time after having read what was said here. I didn't unscrew the antenna; I decided it would look fishy that way with its gold-colored inside. Like I said, I never had problems with it with about 30+ hours of flying.

    However, I can imagine users of the Kyocera having many problems specifically because the device really looks like a phone. I'm glad the Treo doesn't.
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by silverado
    However, I can imagine users of the Kyocera having many problems specifically because the device really looks like a phone. I'm glad the Treo doesn't.
    Yeah... and then there is the "problem" of not being able to hear people around you while listening to MP3's. Not to mention the "problem" of having to find enough apps/games/MP3's/movies to fill up a 512mb SD card.

    Seriously, I've never even flown, so I don't know... but do they take wireless phones away from people who they see holding them? Or do they just tell you to turn it off and put it away? Can't you just point to the display where it says "phone is off" and tell them to leave you alone so you can get back to playing games, reading e-books, listening to MP3's, etc?

    p.s. I was just messing with you Treo-huggers at the beginning of my post. I think it's a really cool smartphone... I just like the 7135's design and features better
    Robert
    Please visit my moblog, Robert-O-Rama
  9. #29  
    Before you declare the 7135 a clearly better phone, I suggest you try them both out.

    Before I tried them both out, I clearly thought the kyo was the better phone. After playing with them, I ended up buying the treo.
  10. paz5559's Avatar
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    #30  
    Where did you find a kyo to play with, and why did you decide it was not as desireable?
  11. #31  
    Treo 300 vs. 7135

    You gotta be kidding.

    The Treo300 is here - a reality!

    The fictional 7135 with its great attributes is still not available for a few more months.

    Let's hold the comparisons until then! Maybe the 7135 might even include a "Treo-like" keyboard by the time it hits the stores. Or maybe they might have backlight problems as well. Who knows.

    Right now you cannot buy em.
    Ed
    Visor Deluxe, Prism, Visorphone, Treo 270, Treo 600, Treo 650, and am eagerly waiting for the next generation Treo...but wait...is that the iPhone????
  12. #32  
    Where did you find a kyo to play with, and why did you decide it was not as desireable?
    Friend had a unit on demo. For me, it was too thick and heavy for shirt pocket use. I didn't like having to always open the clamshell to check appointments. The dialpad keys were too flush and hard to press.

    The display was certainly bright and crisp. But the treo 300's display was no slouch. I immediately fell in love with the treo keyboard.

    I don't need a portable mp3 player. Nor an expansion slot.

    Lack of removable battery on the treo is the one major bummer.
  13. #33  
    (Sorry this is so long... been reading for so long, and I wanted to comment on so many different things as well as tell my nightmare support story about Sprint.)

    After waiting SO long, I'm SO disappointed in the Treo 300. After opening the cute packaging, my elation quickly wore off when I actually tried to use the device like I thought I could: a Palm-based PDA.

    I've been reading all the posts here and on PalmInfocenter and I just don't get the love for the Treo and especially the keyboard. I'm guessing that a good deal of the keyboard fans are blackberry regulars, and that's cool if you're good at that. But I became a graffiti master long before the blackberry, and did my email communication on my Palm via synching. I can fly on the graffiti, but I tried a conversion over to the keyboard. Problems: keys made noise in meetings (graffiti didn't), I couldn't type without looking at the keyboard (I can take notes via graffiti without looking - very good for meetings when non-techie people always think Palm users are playing games and not paying attention), and the backlighting on the keyboard shut off quickly and I couldn't use many apps in the dark. Perhaps this is just me, but I love Graffiti, and I don't think that Handspring's adoption of the keyboard is going to make app developers switch everything so that it's useable without graffiti or a graffiti substitute.

    I tried Jot (recommended by the Handspring website), but it crashed more than half of the apps I use, including some of the built-in ones. I know that there are other screen writing softwares out there, but I want my graffiti pad back! Jot and the other progs I used for on-screen writing just don't work all the time in all apps and they rarely work well, when it comes to selecting between letters/pucntuation/numbers.

    And what's with this extra button (function) you have to hit to get the program menu? Why make it harder to switch between apps? I'd say the program menu hotspot is one of the most used things on my Palm Vx, judging by the scratches. And switching between the stylus and the keyboard is a real pain if you have to keep doing it.

    The built-in Blazer browser only worked occassionally, and Sprint's solution was to download a different browser. Great idea... take up RAM with something that should work from the built-in apps. Kyo has WAP, HTML, and web-clipping browsers!

    And the general love for the Treo is confusing to me as well. I was really caught up in the hype for the last year... waiting for the 300 was almost unbearable. But now that I got one and really put it to the test, it just doesn't hold up as a Palm-compatible device. I have to admit here that I really screwed up. I bought without really putting a 270 through its paces ahead of time and not reading enough reviews/message boards. I should have known better. But even then, I just don't see what the few fans like about the 300. Are they just not really using it that much? I'm a heavy Palm user, and I have many 3rd party apps, and the Treo 300 just doesn't hold up.

    I would say that this is one of the better conceived but worst executed computer products ever built, and once Sprint got their hands on it, it was totally in the toilet. From everyting I've been reading here, on PalmInfocenter, and on SmartPhoneSource, it looks like Kyocera's 6035 is a great product (and I have several friends that can testify to that) and if the 7135 is nearly as good, then it will be the Treo killer. I think that would be a good wake-up call for Handspring, and maybe they'd think about making their future products more compatible.

    To elaborate on the Sprint thing, here are some of the issues I had with Sprint (and perhaps Treo 270 users don't have these issues with their carrier):

    Sprint has nearly NO support for this product. I wasted about 3 hours of my life trying to get Sprint and/or Handspring to help me with this product. Finally I talked to two people at Sprint and one person at Handspring who knew the most about it, and they were all reading from a script. It was like talking to a broken record. And the support staff was extremely rude at both companies. Handspring refuses to support this product, because of a contractural agreement with Sprint, but Sprint can't help because they're muppets. Examples: They couldn't help with the voicemail indicator that won't go away (even though there are no voicemails at all and no SMS messages) and they couldn't even figure out how to send me out a new software CD (since the one I got was corrupt). Apparently the "put CD in envelope, apply postage, mail" method was too complicated for them. For most of the other problems I had, they tried to convince me that doing a reset on the phone would fix (one even suggested that a reset would fix my problem with the software CD), or they said I should just take it back. They also kept referring me to the product manual, but that had little-to-no instructions on the product at all. One word: muppets.

    Summary: STAY AWAY FROM THIS PRODUCT - and if you have to go with Sprint (like I did because I was already under contract), try a product that has non-Sprint support, or at least good non-Sprint web support. If you can stay away from Sprint altogether, that might be a good idea. I'm stuck, and they are the best signaled carrier in this area. I hope they can get their act together by the time I get my hands on a 7135.
    Last edited by JamesCzar; 08/21/2002 at 10:09 PM.
    James

    Just give me the implant so that I can use my brain for I/O. I could live with the weird looks that the antenna sticking out of my head would get.
  14. #34  
    Hi james:

    I got the 6035 when it first came out. I liked it alot, even though the backlight actually made it harder to read in the dark, and it was so big my friends thought I bought a simon and was going for the retro look. Opening the clamshell to check on my appointments made me look like captain kirk checking his tricorder. Best I got at graffitti was 15wpm, while I easily do 25wpm now on the treo keyboard. The treo is the lightest phone/pda I've owned. Its so thin and light, I have room for a notepad and pen in my shirtpocket, which is much more convienient for jotting quick notes.

    Sprint csr help on a "pda" issue? I guess being with sprint for so many years has set my expectations low. But I never really get any answers from csr on any products I buy. I get them from forums like treocentral.

    Obviously you know you can reprogram a button to be the home menu.

    I was dead set to buy the kyo 7135 until I saw it, played with it, and ended up prefering the treo.

    Whatever you buy, check it out first. A pda is a PERSONAL digital assistant. The choice is personal
  15. #35  
    Work_Permit,

    I know you can reprogram one of the main buttons to be the home menu... I know how to reprogram the main 4 buttons... but I already have them where I want them.

    I if I could reprogram the alternates to the main 4 buttons (accessed with the function key) I'd have been happier. But even the Sprint upper level tech could not tell me how to do it and said that Handspring told them that changing those buttons could cause problems (might be a BS response , but with all the other probs, I wasn't willing to chance it).

    I'm really a graffiti pro, and I just need my graffiti pad back . How do you get around the sound of the keys , and the backlighting turning off ? If you know the keyboard good enough to use it in the dark, I can only assume you were a blackberry user or just have that touch.

    I'm also not too keen on Sprint's 3g offering and am looking at the Verizon Unlimited Express and thinking... (now if I could only get out of my Sprint contract). Though things may change. I've heard everybody screaming about the Sprint 3g plans, and it seems that they'll have to modify them to satisfy the masses.

    I think what put me over the edge was the built-in browser not working properly. How can you screw up something that big on a product like this?! I shouldn't have to waste RAM on a browser... that'd be like using DateBk4 because the built-in DateBook+ didn't work. I really think that the failure of something built-in like Blazer should be fixed with a recall.

    I admitted that it was my mistake in not doing my homework, but I still think that Handspring has let down their fans with the non-graffiti Treo line (and perhaps the Treo in general, if it performs anywhere as bad as mine did). I think they need to read these forums and similar sites, and listen to the people who really use these devices to their fullest potential - then go back to the drawing board.

    By the way, WP, the don't use the speakerphone while holding the Treo... or you'll really look like Capt. Kirk.
    James

    Just give me the implant so that I can use my brain for I/O. I could live with the weird looks that the antenna sticking out of my head would get.
  16. #36  
    Wow. I've never seen such a debate over two devices. I think people need to stop trying to compare apples and oranges. I've used a HS Visor and a Palm Vx. I just got a Treo 300 after much anticipation and am very pleased. Yes, it does have limitations such as the keyboard backlight and the single band factor. However, the 7135 also appears to have limitations. Having not yet used one, I'll hold off on any judgements.

    I'd like to throw some gas on the fire and mention that HS may be producing another Treo for Sprint. Not sure if it will be Dual-band or if it will have any expansion capabilities. It may even be here in time to compete with the 7135 (December?). Also, lets not leave out Samsung. They are working on FOUR devices. One of which will be very similar in design to the 7135. And, Sprint has yet to agree to carry the 7135. Finally, are you willing to pay for the 7135? The price tag may fall in the $600-700 range.

    BTW -- TreoButton works very well for assigning applications to buttons and the rocker.

    To answer the original question. Ask yourself how you plan to use the device. Don't care about 3G? = You can buy a new 6035 for $100 or a used I300 for $250-300. Need 3G today? = Treo. Can you wait three weeks? = Samsung I330/360. Wait until the end of the year? = Treo 300, Treo Extreme(?), Samsung I330/360, Kyocera 7135, Samsung ?, Samsung ?.
  17. #37  
    Better yet, why don't you wait another 5 years so you end up getting the ideal PDA for sure!!!!!

    James Czar, I could tell from your complaints that you don't know enough about the Treo 300 yet. But stick with your graffiti and good luck. I heard that the Kyocera 7135 is not coming out till November!
    Ed
    Visor Deluxe, Prism, Visorphone, Treo 270, Treo 600, Treo 650, and am eagerly waiting for the next generation Treo...but wait...is that the iPhone????
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by Treo Rat
    James Czar, I could tell from your complaints that you don't know enough about the Treo 300 yet. But stick with your graffiti and good luck. I heard that the Kyocera 7135 is not coming out till November! [/B]
    And I can tell from your reply you're just interested in blindly worshiping your treo and not setting the record straight. How about responding to some of his issues (for the benefit of prospective treo 300 buyers) like keyboard backlighting turning off, and sprint suggesting to fix blazer by installing another browser?

    If Verizon carried a treo, I might have tried it. What do they hope to accomplish with these exclusionary contracts for smartphones? I'm not switching carriers. And I don't mind waiting as my 6035 functions better than the day I bought it (thanks to smartphonesource.com).
    David
  19. #39  
    Treo
    ----
    No voicedial/voice memos
    digital only
    12bit color
    OS 3.5.2h
    No expansion
    no out of the box pqa support
    internal battery
    SMS app cannot send

    Kyo
    ---
    has voicedial/memos
    tri-mode
    16bit color
    OS 4.1
    SDIO slot
    6035 had pqa support out of the box if I remember right
    user replaceable battery
    6035 has send SMS on Verizon, asssume 7315 will also

    Samsung i500 bluechip clam
    --------------------------
    66mhz processor - wonder how fast you can overclock palm apps!
    small, lightweight

    Samsung i330 (i300 update)
    --------------------------
    no SDK to utilize the soft graffiti
    screen unprotected

    T-Mobile PocketPC Phone Edition
    -------------------------------
    GSM (yuk)
    screen unprotected
    requires daily resets

    All MSFT stinker (I mean stinger) smartphones
    ---------------------------------------------
    No touch screen? So you still have to carry a pda, which makes the reason for buying a

    smartphone what?

    Thera type PocketPC's with phone support added
    ----------------------------------------------
    short battery life
    phone address book a separate app from contacts
    David
  20. #40  
    DRW,

    Here's my final argument, and I'll sign off immediately after, so I don't start a flamer:

    If you don't know why or how your backlight is turning off, you either don't own a Treo 300 or you haven't even bothered reading your manual. This message board is full of threads about the workings of the backlight as well.

    As for the Kyocera 7135, I will say this for the last time - WHERE THE HELL IS IT?

    Yes I love my Treo for now. This is my fifth PDA in two years and they're not all Handspring products. I'm a self-declared PDA geek. Therefore, it will not be my last. Who knows, I might even get a Kyocera and join your "future" Kyocera 7135 board. But first I need to see it in my own hands and play with it!
    Ed
    Visor Deluxe, Prism, Visorphone, Treo 270, Treo 600, Treo 650, and am eagerly waiting for the next generation Treo...but wait...is that the iPhone????
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