Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 119
  1. #21  
    I think is bull of all the talk... I've been using the t68i in Europe and Asia and to Canada... I've been able to use GPRS to check my EMail on the phone. So what's the deal with incompatibities with different providers. That's why they have the standards body for GSM, so that it would be compatible across the board. The different bands is just airwave frequencies and has nothing to do with the underlying technology. Its like saying the Gasoline produced in the US is incompatible with cars in Britain just because they have different driver side and needs to be adjusted to suit them. I bought the Treo 270 hoping to have better email and web capabilities. But handspring just ship unfinished products... I had to return my unit twice. I really don't think is fair to us early adopters. Now with Treo 300 out with full G3 capabilities, you got to wonder what the F*ck is going on.
  2. #22  
    Once again, I'm sorry to desagree with you, Thegman, and I fully agree with Vmash!

    I still can't understand why Handspring cannot develop a proper GPRS software upgrade, while all device designers/manufacturers around the world can.
    And I'm not talking about the European world leaders such as Nokia and Ericsson (now Sony-Ericsson - check the soon to be available P800: geniune GPRS-enabled communicator), but also about Motorola: 100% USA (as far as I know...).

    I don't know anything about software development, but Thegman can you explain how (with the same home-based network difficulties) Motorola is now proposing (for their devices available worldwide and the USA: Accompli 009, V66, V70, Timeport 280 and 7382i, T193) mostly GPRS phones and communicators while Handspring cannot?

    I will ask the same question again:

    Why Nokia can offer their 8390, Sony-Ericsson their T68i or T-Mobile its Pocket PC Phone Edition, among many more manufacturers, all GPRS-enabled devices available in the USA while Handspring cannot?
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by dennis3232


    I don't know anything about software development, but Thegman can you explain how (with the same home-based network difficulties) Motorola is now proposing (for their devices available worldwide and the USA: Accompli 009, V66, V70, Timeport 280 and 7382i, T193) mostly GPRS phones and communicators while Handspring cannot?

    I will ask the same question again:

    Why Nokia can offer their 8390, Sony-Ericsson their T68i or T-Mobile its Pocket PC Phone Edition, among many more manufacturers, all GPRS-enabled devices available in the USA while Handspring cannot?
    OK, here it goes:

    1) Show me a device that is truely using GPRS GSM3/EDGE (3G) and getting anything better than 28.8. You can't and that is because 3G GPRS is not really available because of the incompatible tower equipment, and YES it is different gear with different switching software revisions.

    2) Those devices get e-mail, as do they all, whether it is GPRS delivered or not. The radio packet delivered bandwidth that these devices get are certainly getting GPRS V1 provisioned bandwidth. In addition, the mobile browsers in these devices are WAP based and are not HTML based.

    3) The PocketPC devices with GPRS are in the same boat.

    4) The Sprint network is also in the same boat, except they do not use GPRS, rather their own proprietary delivery method. Sprint has had to front the tech resources for the HS product, not HS. There is an HS team for Sprint but not to the extent you think.

    5) Again, AT&T, Cingular, T-Mobile (Voicestream) all have different methods of GPRS implementation (i.e. billing, bandwidth allocation) that vary from one another. HS is making sure that all 3 carriers are supported so that when you roam from one to another, you are assured compatibility. For instance, my T-Mobile PCMCIA card ONLY WORKS with T-Mobile networks while my Treo can roam and use a Cingular network. If that was GPRS, the Treo would have to provision the Cingular GPRS and T-Mobile will need to bill me accordingly. Get it? If each carrier was like Sprint, we'd all have a GPRS patch by now.

    6) Motorola and Nokia phones are the most "network" compatible phones, due in part that the cell switching hardware is based on one or the other.

    7) Someone mentioned that the Sprint system is running 3G, and I hate to break it to you, they are not. You will see a press release shortly that tells the real story.

    8) and finally, HS does not want to support the "2G GPRS" actually it is just called GPRS V1, who would? It is only slightly better than an analog cell modem connection and mostly ment to carry SMS and e-mail along with WAP compatible pages. While I know we can all roam the earth with a GPRS V1 phone, I'd hardly call that a big deal. True GPRS GSM3/EDGE speeds are what you want on your Treo or PocketPC, especially to sync, get real html pages, not WAP crap, and really be able to work mobile.

    Anything else?
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by thegman
    8) and finally, HS does not want to support the "2G GPRS" actually it is just called GPRS V1, who would? It is only slightly better than an analog cell modem connection and mostly ment to carry SMS and e-mail along with WAP compatible pages. While I know we can all roam the earth with a GPRS V1 phone, I'd hardly call that a big deal. True GPRS GSM3/EDGE speeds are what you want on your Treo or PocketPC, especially to sync, get real html pages, not WAP crap, and really be able to work mobile.

    Anything else?
    Oh, c'mon.

    Handspring never commited to supporting EDGE. They said they'll have GPRS, and yet they don't, but everybody else does.

    Frankly, if they can't deliver GPRS, why would anyone assume they'd ever get EDGE done?
  5. #25  
    theGman is an ignorant fool... GPRS is only 2.5G... Edge is 3G and is something else entirely. No sprint does not have something proprietory, they are using something call CDMA2000 which in turn is a standard for 3G based on the CDMA standard, which in turn is used in North American, South Korea, parts of Japan, Hong Kong, China and so forth. There are many configurations for GPRS, handspring GPRS module provider just choose to have 2 downstream and 1 upstream, which equals 28.8 kps downstream and 14.4 upstream. My T68i has 3 downstream and 1 upstream, meaning it can have upto 42 kps downstream and 14.4 upstream. I've just ordered a GSM/GPRS Tri-band compact flash module by Audiovox for my mini notebook and it has 4 downstream and 1 upstream capable upto 56kps downstream. There are GPRS modems that have 8 downtreams but have not yet released.

    I Still love my Treo, but just wish Handspring start shipping finished products. Notice American companies never finish there products and just ships them out. Remember M*crosoft...
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by vmah
    theGman is an ignorant fool...
    I thank you very much. Glad to see that you are still a child unable to play in the sandbox with others.

    AGAIN!!!! Those are regular phones that you people keep referring to along with some mini-pda notebook thing that like .1% of the world uses.

    Show me the specs for a device like the treo for 2.5 or 3G.

    As for your Sprint comment, actually they are using this:

    "The Sprint CDMA2000 IS-95A ("CDMA2000 1x") network supports 14.4 kbps as well as offers significant improvements in system capacity and standby time. Sprint PCS' CDMA2000 1x-enabled network is a significant accomplishment and an important step toward true 3G wireless communication devices," said Brian Finnerty, Senior Director of Product Realization for Sprint PCS. CDMA2000 IS-95B, a close 3G network, is now operating in Asia and supports 64 kbps. By 2005, Sprint will deliver CDMA2000 Mbps1xEV that supports data speeds from 153 kbps to 2.4."

    And let me ask you this, were are your completed products? If you hate American products, DONT BUY THEM, otherwise, who is the "ignorant fool" who keeps purchasing these incomplete products?

    Yours in AMERICAN technology,
    GMAN
  7. #27  
    So why did you buy the Treo if it is an unfinished product VMah? Do you want Handspring to release the gprs patch if it unfinished as well?


    Originally posted by vmah


    I Still love my Treo, but just wish Handspring start shipping finished products. Notice American companies never finish there products and just ships them out. Remember M*crosoft...
  8.    #28  
    Hey guys take it easy. I started this thread and it seems that u guys are getting too hot under the collar. Btw, thegman, looking at all ur replies, can I assume that ur one of the developers making the gprs patch for HS? If you are, then guys… pls stop pissing him of – it just might cause more delays !!! Secondly, just to clarify, are u guys talking abt perfecting the patch as in getting the fastest possible speed, or r u guys just talking abt perfecting the patch as in making the program run w/o bugs (ie: will not hang, will not crash, etc). If you guys are talking abt speed only, then I suggest u release the patch in versions (as in you can perfect it or keep improving the efficiency over time) – at least it will give us guys something to use in the mean time!

    Also, I suggest that developers like you stop looking at the US as ur standards for developing patches (isn’t HS looking at the GLOBAL market). It might be true that releasing the patch w/o optimum speed may not have any advantages vs. dial up ISP in the US … but treo users outside US may have other reasons for wanting to switch!!! In Asia (where I’m from) for example, we gets charged airtime by our GSM service provider, and at the same time we also get charged airtime by our ISP (believe me … this comes out very exepnsive!!!) If we switch to GPRS, then we don’t get charged twice!!! (btw – GPRS here is still free until sept. or oct. – which means BY THE TIME U RELEASE THE PATCH – ITS NO LONGER FREE!!! This is what makes me really pissed of!!!
  9. #29  
    In addition to that, here in Canada we cannot even use a dial-up ISP with our GSM phones. Rogers only uses GPRS and Fido recently discontinued it's Circuit Switched Data service, meanining GPRS only too.

    Treo users have no access at all, not even lousy dial-up.

    And thegman, you're not making any sense. You keep saying that those are regular phones. Why should the implementation of GPRS whether it be on a Treo or a Nokia be any different? An 8390 can handle all GPRS networks, world-wide, why does the Treo have to be so special to be compatible with different networks running the same standard. Who cares if the switching equipment is made by different manufacturers with different software. It's all based on a standard. That's the point. Is ethernet different whether or not the network is running through Cisco devices or Intel devices? No, because it's based on a standard.
  10. #30  
    Thegman you need to take a less US-centered point of view.

    GSM and now GPRS (to make it simpler) were not USA-based technologies that the US networks took a long time to start adopting.
    And even today it is far to be available and efficient everywehere nationwide as it is in the rest of the world - truth must be said.
    As far as mobile technology is concerned, Europe and even more Japan are leading the game.

    I fully understand that Handspring has local issues to fix.
    But still, the Treo is available for sell worldwide.
    Therefore, Handspring should have a global way to deal with technological issues (such as GPRS, but what about Bluetooth or MMS which are also becoming standard in high-end devices?) and not narrow its vision.
    Competition is strong out there!

    You said:
    "Show me the specs for a device like the treo for 2.5 or 3G."

    Here is one.
    I told you before about the soon-to-be-available Sony-Ericsson P800.

    Here are the specs:
    It is a color-screen communicator device based on Symbian OS v7.0 with (of course!) GPRS, Bluetooth, MMS, i-Mode, has an integrated browser that can access the web (HTML and xHTML), c-html and WAP, and runs on GSM 900/1800/1900.
    You can easily fill-up its 12Mb built-in RAM, in addition of the 16Mb memory stick that comes in the box with freeware/shareware apps written in Java or C++.
    What's more, you don't need to buy third-party apps to be able to view your MS-Word, Excel or PowerPoint files as it also comes standard with the device as well as the usual calendar, e-mail, address book and to-do-lists.

    Don't worry, I don't work for Sony-Ericsson.
    But the first time I saw those specs and read the first reviews available, I was astonished!

    I only wanted you to realize that if handspring keep having this narrow-minded, US-centered point of view, it will loose big against competitors that think global.

    This is the reason why it was already a mistake to ship the Treo 270 without GPRS.
    It is even a bigger mistake to make users wait that long to make it available.

    Buyers of that kind of devices are educated Internet users and look around forums to make themselves an opinion on which device to buy next.
    Don't you think that kind of thread is a killer for Handspring?
  11. #31  
    Hi,

    here is another thought to throw into the (heated) discussion: maybe it's not only the GPRS patch they have problems with and hence the delay. Let me explain.

    When the Treo 180 was annonced in Germany it was said that Viag Interkom (now O2) will offer it with their plans. Unfortunately that hasn't happend, yet. Still I use my Treo 180 on the O2 network and it works in that I can make phone calls, send SMS or surf the net. But the Treo is lacking some features that my Nokia supported on the same network. For one the roaming doesn't work correctly (won't switch back) and I don't get a 'homezone icon' (if you don't know what it is, don't worry about it)

    Some beta testers mentioned alternations in the phone app (e.g. mute button) which make me believe that Handspring is looking for a patch that solves *all* their current problems or at least a whole lot of them. So appart from the whole international 'standard' mess you get dozens of local problems as well.

    My suggestion: if you ever get tired of shouting at 'thegman' try blaming them bloody Germans

    Or the French, for that matter, since a Handpsring Rep once told me Treos have a problem there, too...

    anderas,
    who waits for a patch,too , just not for GPRS support...
  12. #32  
    About Treo 270 GPRS upgrade.
    Here in France GSM networks offer total full coverage, and I think there is not a single inch in Europe where you cannot use your mobile phone.
    Tréo works fine, reception is always optimal, and you can browse the web and check your email wireless from Stockholm to Lisboa with no problem.
    But it is true that users are awaiting for GPRS, due to the fact that GSM operators offer very low prices for subscriptions: here in France, you can have a GPRS connection for 6 euros / month (about 6 US$ / month), including a monthly 10 Mb data transfer.
    I own a Treo since last june, and I mainly got it for wireless web browsing and email, and because it was supposed to come soon with a GPRS patch, but I get tired of waiting for GPRS upgrade, whereas I see such offers.
    I love my Treo, it works fine, but I think I wont wait more for GPRS: I'll sell my brand new Treo in september and will buy a GPRS phone + pocket PC.
  13. #33  
    GMAN states that other implementations of GPRS, on normal cell phones, are based on sending WAP information instead of HTML. I am not sure what WAP is (can someone explain?), but it sounds like the implication is that HS could've implemented such GPRS access but it would do almost nothing to improve speed in your Blazer application. Keep in mind that most normal cell phones don't have color GUI browsers to surf the web but are text only. So in effect, it sounds like GMAN is saying that other cell phones have only a limited implementation of GPRS connectivity and aren't providing the full GPRS capabilities that HS is attempting to supply. It is these extra capabilities that are exposing, the before now unseen, differences in the carriers' GPRS implementations.

    If this is the case, then I understand why other cell phones can be used nationwide with GPRS, while the Treo patch is still in development. Furthermore, I would rather wait longer and get a patch that really ramps up speed, rather than just get a version available at the product release date that uses normal cell phone implementations but does little to speed up surfing.

    I would not blame HS for releasing the 270 before GPRS though, because many persons are happy using it without the capability. And the other bottomline was that HS needed to get the 270 to market ASAP for financial reasons. I would only blame HS for raising expectations by promising GPRS out sooner. This has the foul stench of a non-technical marketing puke or exec who was informed by the programming team that there was no way they could get the patch out quickly, ignored them thinking they were lying, and put the GPRS statement out there anyway.

    Bob-C
  14. #34  
    Right on, Bob-C !!!

    :-)

    GMOJ
    -----------------------
    I Love My Treo270
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by Bob-C
    GMAN states that other implementations of GPRS, on normal cell phones, are based on sending WAP information instead of HTML.
    (...)
    So in effect, it sounds like GMAN is saying that other cell phones have only a limited implementation of GPRS connectivity and aren't providing the full GPRS capabilities that HS is attempting to supply. It is these extra capabilities that are exposing, the before now unseen, differences in the carriers' GPRS implementations.
    I can see where you're coming from Bob-C, but you extrapolated a bit too much.

    WAP is basically a small-screen, wireless-friendly (basically, very limited) kind of HTML. Both WAP and HTML are used to encode data, such as web pages.

    GPRS is a way of transporting data, whatever it may be. It doesn't change, or have any extra capabilities depending on what data you're transporting.

    As such, there are no additional challanges to implementing GPRS on a Treo vs. a cell phone.

    Now, perhaps what thegman was referring to is that in his opinion GPRS is too slow anyway to transport rich and colorful web pages. He goes on to state that Handspring would prefer to implement EDGE (the next generation GPRS) instead, and that's what's delaying the patch.

    While that might sound reasonable at first, there are a few problems with it.

    1) Handspring claimed they will support GPRS. They never mentioned EDGE.
    2) There is maybe one or two EDGE networks in the world, and they're highly experimental. It's going to be at least a year, and possibly much longer, before EDGE is more widespread.
    3) EDGE is basically a modified GPRS. During the transition period, mixed GPRS/EDGE networks are inevitable, so getting a GPRS patch done first is only logical.
  16. #36  
    So where's the patch?

    When can we expect to see it. I'd love to try out Cingular's Internet Express service sometime soon.
  17. #37  
    I have worked in the telecommunication industry in the past. One thing I learned is that every telephone company expects the switching equipment (hardware/software) has to be supplied according to the telephone companies specification. This means that the there can be hundreds of different sources for the same piece of digital equipment. And each combination has to be tested and certified by the telephone company. With GSM the situation is similar, evenso the standard should mean that all systems should be compatible.

    The information I received from HS management (EU) the problem is not that the patch is still being developed, but that the patch has to be approved by every provider where the Treo is being marketed and that they can only release it when the majority has approved the equipment.
  18. #38  
    Agree with you ErnstB.

    Nevertheless, please keep in mind that those days (with the increasing number of devices available on the market), providers require manufacturers to comply with what is now standard specifications.
    It is a quite straightforward process.

    This is the only way manufacturers can sell their devices on the world market, as it is quite impossible for them to apply for an authorization with the thousands of providers all around the planet.

    On their Web site, Handspring says (08 / 09 / 2002):
    "TWe are sorry this date is not more precise. The release process requires individual certification by GSM/GPRS wireless service providers."

    In other words: keep waiting!
  19. #39  
    Appleman,

    www.zerogravitywireless.com offers CSD for the Treo, for free, until GPRS comes out.

    The importance is ensuring the GPRS patch is FLAWLESS on a user-experience perspective. I'm experiencing a bit of difficulty/bugginess with the Phone Dialer and how it sends call forward commands. I'm sure an extra week of development before Handspring had to release the device would have made all the difference; hence the 1.0 patch that was released earlier in the year. There still could be more.

    I honestly would wait for the patch, howsoever long it will take, until it provides a flawless user experience.
  20. #40  
    I've been reading through the various posts on this thread, and thought of something I'd like to add.

    THEGMAN - First off, thanks for posting here. If you are part of the HS development team as you say you are, it's nice to have an inside view of what's going on with the GPRS Patch and a glimpse into the thought process that HS is going through. Some folks have been a little hostile in their responses to you. I hope you understand that it probably stems from 1) imaturity and 2) frustration over waiting for functionality in a rather expensive device they've already paid for.

    One thing that keeps coming up are the compatibility issues that HS seems to be having vs what other phone manufacturers seem to be able to deal with effectivly. You previously pointed out that most of the current GPRS devices are Email and WAP only, and don't do the sophisticated web-type functions that the Treo will be able to once the patch is complete.

    As an owner of the Treo 180 who ordered it the night it became available from Handspring, I have surfed the web and checked my email using the dialup connection for quite a while now. Surfing the web with the Treo is interesting and useful on a handful of occasions, but it's something I could live without. Having to dialup every time I want to check email is frustrating, both in the expense of having to pay for a separate dialup account from Earthlink and pay for minutes used to dialup and from the perspective that I have to go get my email instead of it coming directly to me.

    The email and messenging features of the Treo is what interests me the most. That is the reason I bought the Treo in the first place. Having this GPRS enabled and thus "always on" is what I've been looking for from day one. That this has to be on hold is something that I find very frustrating.

    I've also been looking at the Pocket PC phone just releasted by Voicestream/T-Mobile. I am interested, and have to admit that the delays that HandSpring has had with the GPRS patch have made me seriously think about switching to this device. I do know that it's not the panacea device that some would believe it is and that nationwide coverage is an issue, but it does what I want it to do, now.

    Waiting until October for something that I can get now for about the same money from the Pocket PC Phone is hard. I imagine that HandSpring is going to lose quite a few folks over this. If Voicestream/T-Mobile had had a live model (instead of the plastic placeholder) in their store the other night when I stopped by, I might have switched then.

    I'll admit that I don't know a lot about the technical aspects of wireless networks. It does seem to me that if it were possible to bring GPRS Email and Messenging first and then bring the web browsing and other sophisticated aspects later, that might satisfy a lot of folks. Seems like most of the other hardware prividers are able to do this. Handspring might think about taking this tact to help stem the tide of customers who are already jumping ship.

    Just a thought.
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions