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  1.    #1  
  2.    #2  
    While scrolling through the user's manual, I found something that we all suspected but have not been able to confirm: SPCS will bill by the amount of data you transmit/receive, not by the minute.

    A quote from the manual:

    "Your third generation data services are billed according to the amount of data (kilobytes) you send and receive, not the minutes you use on your phone. You will only be billed if and when you
    use these features. Anytime you send or receive data on your phone, you will be billed for the amount of data transmitted. For more information, visit www.sprintpcs.com or see the FAQ section of your phone's electronic User Guide."

    Also, some letters are posted in the exhibits. I hope Handspring really isn't as clueless as this response implies:

    Question from the tester to Handspring:
    " The internal module used in the device is designed for operation in both the North American Cellular (800 MHz) and PCS
    (1900 MHz) bands. This application only covers the PCS (1900 MHz) band. Does this device capable of operating in the
    American Cellular (800 MHz) band as well. Please explain."

    Handspring response:
    "The products are not capable of operating on the 800 MHz North American cellular band due to the fact that the products are GSM and there is no infrastructure in North America on 800MHz that supports GSM"

    Its the CDMA Treo, not GSM, there is such a thing as CDMA and AMPS 800...hello!!!! Obviously, the correct response would have been that the Treo 300 will only support CDMA 1900 despite the capabilities of the internal module.
    Last edited by Marty1781; 07/05/2002 at 04:31 AM.
  3. #3  
    Many thanks to Marty for his post. The technical document that is also available at that site answers a few more questions definitively. E.g., the screen is definitely 12 bit; it's an STN with 162x162 pixels; in other words, exactly the same as the screen in the Treo 270. The PalmOS will reside in an MROM, so it will not be flashable, even though the board supports flash RAM (which will be used in test phones). The phone's main board has 16 MB of SDRAM, but supports up to 32 MB. I smell some aftermarket activity there! The battery is 850 mAH -- someone will be able to tell us if this is the same as the Treo 270. Enough detail is provided in the document to keep the engineers among us happy for quite awhile.

    Overall, I have to say I'm disappointed. I don't see any real difference between the 300 and the 270. Let's hope that some of the manufacturing issues have been resolved at least.
  4. #4  
    Marty makes a good point about the lame reply to the FCC's questions from HandSpring. It appears that the RF unit in the Treo 300 is indeed capable of operation at 800 Mhz, but the device isn't designed to provide nearly enough power for any analog use, so even if that band were usable, it would only be for digital CDMA. I don't know whether any US carriers support that, but Sprint certainly does not.
  5. #5  
    I just realized that unless the OS is flashable, there won't be any possibility of memory upgrades to the Treo 300 as Palm OS 3.5 cannot address more than 16 MB of memory. Maybe there will be some kind of hack? . . .
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by curtiscarmack
    Overall, I have to say I'm disappointed. I don't see any real difference between the 300 and the 270.
    Except the Treo 300 is thicker than the 270.

    Sprint's seemingly lame approach to 3G billing (by the bushel? how archaic!) is the final nail in their coffin as far as I'm concerned. Hello Verizon and unlimited 3G access for $99 per month.

    Kupe
  7. #7  
    I would opined that the by billed by the bushell is better. How may people can afford $99/month for unlimited usage? That is more than twice as much as my Cable ISP bill. If you want to surf the web, use your desktop or laptop computer. PDAs are for quick data retrieval and instant message -- these things dont use up that much bandwidth.


    Originally posted by Kupe

    Except the Treo 300 is thicker than the 270.

    Sprint's seemingly lame approach to 3G billing (by the bushel? how archaic!) is the final nail in their coffin as far as I'm concerned. Hello Verizon and unlimited 3G access for $99 per month.

    Kupe
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by yardie
    I would opined that the by billed by the bushell is better. How may people can afford $99/month for unlimited usage?
    Probably the same people that can afford 5 MB per $20 (Voicestream's current access rate. No reason to assume Sprint's rates are going to by any different). That 5 mb is going to seem very constricting by the 15th of the billing cycle.

    If you want to surf the web, use your desktop or laptop computer.
    If you want email attachments then are you just out of luck? At the Voice stream rate, you get about 1 mb per work day for $100 ($100 = 25 MB, # workdays in 1 month ~21). By Voicestream's calculation you get about 18 Web Pages per megabyte (That's reading your Yahoo home page news and weather, plus some CNN and WSJ) so for about 20 minutes of surfing per workday, I use up my $100. Or I cuold easily use it up with about 1 month's worth of email with just a few attachments. People forget how fast the "Pay by the bushel" adds up - that's exactly what Voicestream is hoping anyway!

    PDAs are for quick data retrieval and instant message -- these things dont use up that much bandwidth.
    WRONG! That's what PDAs used to be for. Communicators are for email, faxing, data storage and retrieval, remote synching, web searches (directions, locations, phone numbers, hours of operations, et al), and occasional recreation. I don't think 5 mb per month is going to do it ($20), I doubt if 25 mb per month will do it (remember, it's 25 total, sending or receiving) for $100. If your needs are limited, then you probably don't need 3G anyway, just use the 2G digital at 14.4k. But if you need the 3G bandwidth, you're doing it for the volume - and $99 for unlimited is a steal today.

    Kupe
  9. #9  
    OK Kupe,

    I agree with much of what you have to say.. But $99 is way too steep for the average user. Think about. with these charges, you would have been able to buy about two Treo 270 at the end of the year. What makes the GPRS compelling for me, is the fact that you are being billed for what you use. When I connect using dialup now, I pay for the connection even if I am idle, With GPRS this would not be the case. I think 5MB would be more than enough for needs. Still users like yourself that wants to push the envelope better get an unlimited plan.

    Originally posted by Kupe



    WRONG! That's what PDAs used to be for. Communicators are for email, faxing, data storage and retrieval, remote synching, web searches (directions, locations, phone numbers, hours of operations, et al), and occasional recreation. I don't think 5 mb per month is going to do it ($20), I doubt if 25 mb per month will do it (remember, it's 25 total, sending or receiving) for $100. If your needs are limited, then you probably don't need 3G anyway, just use the 2G digital at 14.4k. But if you need the 3G bandwidth, you're doing it for the volume - and $99 for unlimited is a steal today.

    Kupe
  10. #10  
    Fair enough Yardie. It is clearly a personal preference/usage thing. My viewpoints come from my own experience (I probably used to do between 8-10 megabytes per month at 14.4k - ack!), but clearly that's not for everyone.

    I think what bothers me about the "by-the-bushel" approach is that most folks don't realize how much bandwidth their typical net usage consumes so they are in for a rude awakening when they go over their allotted amount. Voicestream currently charges $10 per megabyte (any fraction thereof) over your contract on the low-end rate ($3 for 1 mb) - $4 per megabyte on the high end rate ($60 for 20 mb). I'm sure Voicestream is counting on people miscalculating in a big way.

    Using their figures, you can get to 30 mb before you exceed the Verizon $100 for unlimited. It would be interesting to see if that's more than enough for most folks. I probably went over 30 mb on the second day, but mostly I was screwing around with the new toy and showing it off to my colleagues. Verizon will probably drop the unlimited plan due to my usage patterns alone!

    Kupe
  11. #11  
    8 - 10 MB per month? That seems like a lot to me.

    Some quick calculations:

    14.4kbps = 1.8 kilobytes per second

    8MB = 8,192 KB

    8,192/1.8 = 4,551.11 seconds which is:

    75.85 minutes of non-stop downloading at max speed without accounting for any routing overhead.

    Only about avg of 2.5 minutes a day waiting for stuff to download. Doesn't seem like that much actually.

    I have too much time.
    Last edited by Distrachi; 07/11/2002 at 11:02 PM.
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by curtiscarmack
    I just realized that unless the OS is flashable, there won't be any possibility of memory upgrades to the Treo 300 as Palm OS 3.5 cannot address more than 16 MB of memory. Maybe there will be some kind of hack? . . .
    There must be some kind of hack because some memory upgrade company (not sure which one) is offering a 64Mb upgrade for the Pro and Neo, both of which use a non-flashable Palm OS 3.5.
    Alex.
    Last edited by tantousha; 07/12/2002 at 01:45 PM.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by Distrachi
    8 - 10 MB per month? That seems like a lot to me.

    . . .

    75.85 minutes of non-stop downloading at max speed without accounting for any routing overhead.
    I use about 150 to 300 minutes per month for data - I spend a lot of time on the road and check/send/receive email about 10-15 times per day during work days.

    Kupe

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