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  1. jaxrunner's Avatar
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       #1  
    Someone made a comment about the 180g sold less units than the 180, and this is why HS chose not to offer graffiti on the 270. I think this was an unfair poll and simply a bad decision because:

    Most people that are interested in a pda want color. Some want color and graffiti. People didn't purchase the 180 or 180g because it didn't offer these features as a combination. It is likely that the customers that wanted the graffiti didn't buy it because it wasn't in color.

    How can HS fairly say that graffiti (180g) wasn't popular. The concept is popular; consumers just wanted the treo in color.

    I understand that they are trying for a new market, but I think the advanced and intermediate users that supported this company still can play a significant role in Handspring's overall market.

    Most users don't know what this device is capable of and therfore only use the 2-4mb. I have dealt with hundreds of palm users and they are always surprise when I show them new features. Most don't know about real word processing, such as what Wordsmith is capable of. Most know that you can type in the memo but don't know that you can select font, edit, highlight, copy, paste... just as you can with MSword. The reason for this is because people are use to MS products and if that don't see that infamous MS icon in a application they think its an inferior product. This is exactly why pocket pc are becoming so popular.

    Once again, this is not a bad product, just a bad value for $700.(yeah, I know the price will eventually go down).

    New customers aren't the only way for a company to make money. Repeat customers play even a bigger role.
  2. #2  
    Do you own a Treo? Just curious because every post you make seems to be very critical or negitive. Sounds like HS really ticked you off at some point.

    What's the REAL story? Why can't they do anything right?

    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7
  3. #3  
    You know what? I am an advanced user..power user..whatever. ..and I got the Treo 180 too. Why? Because its just better. The Treo 180 looks and feel and acts like a phone. the Treo 180g (which I bought originally), looks weird and didn't feel like a phone.
  4. #4  
    jaxrunner wrote:
    How can HS fairly say that graffiti (180g) wasn't popular. The concept is popular; consumers just wanted the treo in color.


    HS is in a better position to say that Graffiti was unpopular than you are. They have access to their sales figures, which one of their reps reported off the record at a PUG as being 10-to-1 in favor of the 180k. If that's true, there's no basis for saying the concept of a Graffiti Treo is popular.

    Most users don't know what this device is capable of and therfore only use the 2-4mb. I have dealt with hundreds of palm users and they are always surprise when I show them new features. Most don't know about real word processing, such as what Wordsmith is capable of.

    This is precisely the reason why the keyboard is more popular: for writing and editing longer documents. Graffiti's great for single-line data entry, and I'm no slouch on it myself (~30 wpm), but the keyboard has a faster learning curve. I've matched my Graffiti speed, which developed over four years, in about 20 minutes on the keyboard -- and I don't even own a Treo yet.

    Even power users benefit more from the keyboard. I've tried using ptelnet on my Kyocera Smartphone, and it's OK, but a Bash shell with Graffiti is like a Ferrari stuck in second gear.

    The reason for this is because people are use to MS products and if that don't see that infamous MS icon in a application they think its an inferior product. This is exactly why pocket pc are becoming so popular.

    With the NR70, Sony will slaughter the PPC this year -- and it has a keyboard.

    New customers aren't the only way for a company to make money. Repeat customers play even a bigger role.

    With a 10% sales margin on the 180g, apparently they're not playing a bigger role.
  5. #5  
    i like not having to pull the stylus out to input anything in the treo. with the visor, anytime i need to put something in memory i knew i needed to use two hands. but with the keyboard, i can just use one hand for text input
  6. #6  
    Even with alternative input apps such as ScreenWrite and Jot, I still hated my 180 and returned it for a 180g. For me, tiny keyboards are a step backward. I had hoped that someday true handwriting recognition would be standard on all PDA's, but tiny keyboards are here to stay.

    And remember, most retail outlets didn't even stock the 180g, thus further dooming the 270g.
  7. #7  
    Instead of all the griping about what HS is doing wrong here at TC, I think that if there are so many people that want a differant version, they should start writing letters to HS explaining their desires. If there are enough they will STILL build it.

    I didn't buy a PDA until a keyboard was available... just my opinion. If others think that Graffitti is still so great...

    Prove it.

    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7
  8. #8  
    I've expressed my position to Handspring.

    I'm not trying to convince anyone which input method is better. I only know what works for me. I'm perfectly happy with my 180g, but when it comes time to upgrade, if Handspring isn't producing a product that suits my needs, I'll spend my money elsewhere.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by Tweak
    And remember, most retail outlets didn't even stock the 180g, thus further dooming the 270g.
    I think we can give HS AND every retailer that carried the Treo a little more credit than that...

    I feel that Graffitti is a product that will always have merit BUT I seriously doubt that all those retailers AND HS "missed the boat" by not offering a "G" model. I think they know a little more about the market than they are getting credit for.

    The Treo is a convergance device aimed at the masses and it's obvious that they hit their mark judging by their sales numbers. Does this mean "G" is going away? I doubt it but I don't think we'lll see as many offerings/choices. It sure looks like Sony has jumped on board amongst others.


    IMHO

    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7
  10. jaxrunner's Avatar
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       #10  
    I work with these devices and others such as nokia communicator and pocket pc's. I haven't purchase the treo based on reasons listed in my post.

    No, HS hasn't done anything to me.

    Graffiti has been in every palm based device since its inception. Why get rid of it now?

    The keyboard is great for people that have never tried graffiti or those that just don't like it. The keyboard does have some limited functionality. If you need to use the (not so common) characters you have to take the stylus out and click on 2 menus to get to the virtual keyboard.

    I am not trying to convince anyone that the keyboard is inferior or superior to the graffiti. I just wish HS would have given consumers a choice.

    The phone feature in the treo is excellent. Speed dial, SMS, and Call log work great. This is the best combination of pda and phone on the market. I still say handspring made a bad decision in not offering graffiti and a few other features.
  11. #11  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by jaxrunner
    [B]

    Graffiti has been in every palm based device since its inception. Why get rid of it now?
    Honestly, the only ASSUMPTION I have is a lack of demand.

    The keyboard is great for people that have never tried graffiti or those that just don't like it. The keyboard does have some limited functionality.
    Well there seems to be the kicker... Every (many) Graffitti user I have talked to has said that the keyboard is substanually faster than "G" and they now realize they really don't need "G" I'm probably missing something here BUT... isn't a PDA supposed to be as fast as possible?

    If you need to use the (not so common) characters you have to take the stylus out and click on 2 menus to get to the virtual keyboard.
    Actually that's a mistake, all of the characters are available from the keyboard without the stylus and it is easy too!

    I am not trying to convince anyone that the keyboard is inferior or superior to the graffiti. I just wish HS would have given consumers a choice.
    I hear you on that... I just don't think they needed to, especially when you consider the 180 #'s

    I still say handspring made a bad decision in not offering graffiti and a few other features.
    Now there is the BUMMER! It is a hard row to hoe being in business these days and especially for a company as small as HS and they have to cut some corners to maximize the $$ they have. Eventually somebody gets left out. Maybe this is the one step backwards that goes along with the two steps forward??


    Thanks for the reply, I have enjoyed the conversation!


    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7
  12. #12  
    If only 1 in 10 is buying the Treo graffiti version, it is really not economically viable for tiny Handspring to still make them. It is a business decision.
  13. #13  
    I was a serious doubter in the kb, but now I love it as a PalmOS device, not just as a phone. There are a few times when I pine for graffitti, but as I become more proficient at learning shortcuts that becomes less and less. I prefer the kb
  14. #14  
    First of all, I know a lot of Visor and Treo users which will only buy a grafitti version, maybe the keyboard is faster, but that`s not the main reason to buy a keyboard device if you know grafitti well enough.
    Let customers make a choise for themselves.

    Talking about economics, HS has showed us with the 180/180g that production costs of a grafitti version is similar to a keyboard version, so this is NO argument.

    Tne new Sony will be with a keyboard, if you look closely, you see it also has grafitti.
  15. #15  
    The Treo 180g was there as an experiment. The bottom line is that it is a waste of Handspring's resources to sell a device that less than 1 in 10 people will buy. You do have a choice. You mentioned the Sony that has both graffiti and keyboard.
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by mrhandheld

    Talking about economics, HS has showed us with the 180/180g that production costs of a grafitti version is similar to a keyboard version, so this is NO argument.
    Have you ever heard of "economy of scales" the more you make the less it cost OR the less you make the MORE it cost.

    I hope you don't think they are just trying to make these things for us geeks that hang out here at the boards. They are making them hoping that they will catch on with the masses so they will sell so many that they will be able to stay in business with the Sony's and Nokia's of the world.

    HS is not even a blip on the map right now for Nokia and Sony and if they are to survive they MUST be as profitable as possible. Right now HS has the coolest product there is available but NO it is not perfect nor will be the 360 or 450 etc. but so far in my book they are kicking some rear posterior.

    We can't have everything so lets give them some credit and hope they keep inventing cool stuff for us techno/gadget freak/users.


    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7

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