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  1. jaxrunner's Avatar
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       #1  
    I use to love HS, but I am getting very frustrated with this company's final product decisions. I had the original visor, visor deluxe, visor prism and a few modules. I have been waiting to replace my prism with something smaller thats integrates with my phone. I am confused these products have been out
    for at least 3 years, why isn't the price getting cheaper, same motorola processor, though the treo has different screen, its cost is 50% cheaper than the TFT screen. The screen is only 12bit, I don't believe in going backwards when I buy a piece of technology. No graffiti for the color treo! No expansion slot! HS wants us to pay $700 for this (I currently have a Voicestream plan)! I know Sony has a lot more money for R&D, but they are
    managing to sell a much more technological advanced product for far less (even though it doesn't support wireless). Also, I don't know what is taking HS so long to give us a patch for gprs. Voicestream is one of the wireless providers that support it and it works fairly well when it is actually up. The treo isn't a bad product; it just doesn't offer the advancements to
    replace my aging and bulky prism. I was going to eventually buy this product, but no grafitti...I don't think so. I really need the wireless connectivity, I have been connecting with my prism via my nokia 8290 phone, but this is becoming too cumbersome. I was anxiously waiting for the color treo but without graffiti and an inferior screen to my prism, I won't be purchasing this product.

    Did you know the jog dial on the treo is only functional via the phone menu? While in apps. mode, you can only use it to scroll down in the applications menu, not select a particular application? Also it doesn't have a mute option while on a call; (be very quite while on a conference call).

    I'm not sure if they added these features for the 270...I doubt it.
    Last edited by jaxrunner; 05/29/2002 at 10:46 PM.
  2. #2  
    I own a Treo 180...

    The jog dial works in more apps than the phone. In addition, I read that the 270 has a feature called "Focus" which allows you to select apps in the application selector app without using the stylus.

    It's true that the phone doesn't have a mute feature (weird!), but it definitely has conference call capabilities.

    I share some of your concerns about HS, but I cut them a little more slack. This market is very competitive... Sony has far more resources to spend on their handheld line than does lowly HS. Microsoft is seriously cutting into Palm OS's market share and you know how hard it is to fight them.

    Furthermore, HS has taken on the very challenging problem of marrying an organizer with a phone and, in my opinion, has done a darn good job at it. Did they cut some corners and have to make some serious tradeoffs? Definitely. But I think the 270 will be a VERY attractive unit to many more consumers at $499 than the 180 was at $399 (with service). 12-bit color is not that bad

    I personally feel bad about my 180 purchase and the fact that there is no planned discount (yet) for me to buy a 270 (won't pay $700 more!!), but I knew that I was an early adopter and this comes with a price.

    I hope the 270 enjoys enough success to keep HS afloat.
    Last edited by silverado; 05/30/2002 at 02:24 AM.
  3. #3  
    You also have to keep in mind the following when looking at Handspring's choices:

    1) We are not the mass audience a smart company shoots for! Most users loath learning graffiti, will never use more than 2 to 4 MB of RAM, and only one in 1000 updates their OS if they have the option to flash them; HS needs to go for the mainstream even if we the power users are left a little hungry. Stop thinking about your needs as *everyone's* needs; we are the odd ones, not the people the Treo is aimed at.

    2) A 12-bit screen saves a lot on the battery life, a wise choice since it *is* a phone first (and strangely the battery is not changeable)

    3) Sony is aiming at the entertainment market... They want vehicles to sell more of their content be it music, video or whatever. Since most of their devices are very expensive toys (not useful devices that replace very critical things like your cell phone) Sony is mostly relegating themselves to the power-user side of the market. I am guessing that they won't go after the communicator portion of the market for a long time (if ever) so Handspring has probably smartly found the side of things that they can own for a year or two.

    4) Springboard served its purpose in its day, but its time has passed. It was too big, the module prices were too high (simple cost of goods issues) and Handspring's attach rates were something crazy like one module sold for every 20 Visors, and most of them were backup or memory expansion modules (something SD does just fine). This kind of screws those of us that bought modules, but I condone the decision.

    5) GPRS is not being held back by Handspring, but by the certification process of the wireless providers. A source has told me HS has working GPRS patches, but they have to go through a long recertification process with the carriers before the carriers will let them release it. Personally it does not bother me so much because GPRS coverage is spotty at best and I doubt we will see nationwide coverage before 2004. I am looking at the Sprint Treo with a lot more interest these days...

    So all I am saying is let's be reasonable in what we expect from Handspring these days and for us to think from a smart marketer's perspective, not our "I want a 1GHz processor, 128MB of RAM, 3G, 3000 hours of battery life, 10 million colors, 1024 x 1024 pixels, all in a 1" x 1" x 1/2" package" perspective.
  4. #4  
    The fact remains that if Handspring wants to lead the market, they can use the 5% more buyers if they make a Treo 270g.
    In some cases you still need two hands for the keyboard version.

    We`ve seen that the production costs can be the same.
    There was only one price for the Treo 180 and Treo 180g.

    And of course you can always want the best colourscreen and the fastest processor, but if it works OK and the battery lasts a long time for a reasonable price, it is the best buy you can get.
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by mrhandheld
    The fact remains that if Handspring wants to lead the market, they can use the 5% more buyers if they make a Treo 270g.
    In some cases you still need two hands for the keyboard version.

    We`ve seen that the production costs can be the same.
    There was only one price for the Treo 180 and Treo 180g.

    And of course you can always want the best colourscreen and the fastest processor, but if it works OK and the battery lasts a long time for a reasonable price, it is the best buy you can get.
    Unfortunatley "production cost" and "actual cost" are far apart. The expense to create/design, train, manufacture, ship and store another unit AND container adds to the actual cost. Then you must add advertising, warehousing, selling, and handling of ANOTHER sku increases actual cost. How about training additional tech support personel adding another warrenty issue and LOTS of other items I'm not mentioning? All of these result in a INCREASED actual cost because of a reduced ROI (return on investment) due to FAR less of the G version selling.

    How many people are getting left out or dissapointed due to this? Unfortunatley too few to make a difference, other wise ANY company with half a brain (which I give HS a lot more credit than that) would be jumping at the opportunity to make it.

    They tried with the 180g and it did not pay off. At least they tried, game over.

    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7
  6. #6  
    You talk about several expenses wich are not real;

    Design; a grafitti version already exists, put in a colour screen and viola, a Treo 270g, so no extra costs for design.

    Train; no difference in trainingcosts.

    Manufacture; HS is producing grafitti devices longer than keyboard devices, has therefore production capacity and knowledge, and already built a Treo with grafitti, so also no extra costs.

    Warehousing; if you produce several different devices in a similar package, how can you have extra costs ??? You don`t need extra room in a warehouse or something, if you do, you miscalculated your whole business plan.

    Selling and Handling; OK, this might be a light increasement of costs, but not more than a dollar.

    Training tech support; Why, do they need to learn grafitti again ?

    So, if the total costs increase it will be several dollars, and most of the grafitti users are willing to pay several dollars more for a choise like grafitti.

    All the other brands (Palm, Sony, Handera, Samsung etc.) are still producing grafitti devices, do those companys have half a brain then ??
  7. #7  
    i have been a grafitti user for years since my first palm 111. change is good once you start using the keyboard you may really like it
  8. #8  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by mrhandheld
    You talk about several expenses wich are not real;

    Design; a grafitti version already exists, put in a colour screen and viola, a Treo 270g, so no extra costs for design.

    Train; no difference in trainingcosts.

    Manufacture; HS is producing grafitti devices longer than keyboard devices, has therefore production capacity and knowledge, and already built a Treo with grafitti, so also no extra costs.

    Warehousing; if you produce several different devices in a similar package, how can you have extra costs ??? You don`t need extra room in a warehouse or something, if you do, you miscalculated your whole business plan.

    Selling and Handling; OK, this might be a light increasement of costs, but not more than a dollar.

    Training tech support; Why, do they need to learn grafitti again ?

    So, if the total costs increase it will be several dollars, and most of the grafitti users are willing to pay several dollars more for a choise like grafitti.

    All the other brands (Palm, Sony, Handera, Samsung etc.) are still producing grafitti devices, do those companys have half a brain then ??
    [/QUOTE

    You're right, HS and I'm wrong. You're smart, HS and I'm stupid. You're good looking and and we are homely.

    Just do one thing now that you have won this debate, save it and revisit it in about a year or two.


    Rod
    "Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

    Romans 4:7

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