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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    Yes, anybody that needs "background playback" on Palm OS will need to buy and use something else.

    Palm OS doesn't support background apps. Although it can be simulated with hacks that work around the OS, they inevitably hurt device stability. To us, that's not an acceptable tradeoff.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    HOGWASH.

    ptunes works just fine in the background, and the vast majority of users have no issues with it.

    I'm trying out the free version now, to decide whether to buy it, and the lack of any background operation is a deal-breaker. Oh, I could live with having to have Kinoma as the foreground app while listening to music. What I can't live with is the fact that anytime any other app does a background process (connecting to email, or processing an alarm, for just two examples) Kinoma simply stops and waits. This is annoying at best.

    I really wanted to like Kinoma because it will play the AAC music I've ripped from CDs via iTunes, but what's the point if I can't listen to a song uninterrupted.

    Very dissapointing.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  2.    #42  
    Bob,

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    'm trying out the free version now, to decide whether to buy it, and the lack of any background operation is a deal-breaker.
    I understand, and we're sorry we won't have the chance to have you as a customer.

    But as a leading and long-time Palm OS software developer, we learned long ago that software that tries to fake "background app" functionality via OS hacks is one of the top culprits -- if not the top culprit -- for phone slowness, instability, and resets. (If you have software that does that and you haven't seen any of those problems on your phone, I'm glad for you and hope it lasts.)

    If you want reliable background audio playback, my recommendation is Kinoma Play on a Treo 800w.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  3. sck18's Avatar
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    #43  
    I have a treo 680 and I love the new Kinoma program. The stability over the embedded program is MUCH better and I can actually watch youtube videos with it. However, the embedded version still loads when I click on a video in Blazer - how do I force Blazer to use the new program?
  4. UserOne
    UserOne's Avatar
    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by sck18 View Post
    I have a treo 680 and I love the new Kinoma program. The stability over the embedded program is MUCH better and I can actually watch youtube videos with it. However, the embedded version still loads when I click on a video in Blazer - how do I force Blazer to use the new program?
    This was covered in the past and I believe the answer is that you can't force the new to override the embedded. Perhaps a quick search on the TreoCentral forums would yield the actual thread and give ya more details as my memory isn't what it once was hehe.
  5. #45  
    @Charles: I have four questions.

    1. For the benefit of those wanting to make an efficient comparison, can you state which codecs are and aren't supported by the free version -- or point us to a table that makes the differences clear? I have EX myself, but it seems like a few people here are asking you indirect questions about which file formats are supported in the free version, therefore getting indirect answers. Not everyone reading that EX plays MPEG-4 video is going to automatically infer that KP4 doesn't.

    2. I'm going to be moving from the Centro to the Treo Pro in a week or two when it comes to Sprint. This will essentially be my first WM device (I had the HTC Touch, but never installed software on it). I seem to remember a discount mentioned for POS users with a 4 EX license buying the WM version of Kinoma Play. Is that the case?

    3. This question is for both POS and WM versions. Is there a way to grab or navigate to the url of a video embedded within a page and launch it directly?

    Here's a specific example. I saw a Flash video on Videojug on how to make miso soup. In Blazer, the thumbnail for the video is blacked out -- I can only copy and paste the page's url into Kinoma (generating a "file format not supported" error), rather than the video's target url. Even though there's a ton of content on YouTube, I frequently encounter videos that are hosted locally or though hosting services that haven't yet made their way to Kinoma Guide.

    4. This is an extension of the last question. If I'm able to procure the url for a certain non-YouTube Flash videos from my desktop, then manually enter the url in Kinoma's "Open URL . . ." function, I'll often get one of two errors: either the "file format not supported" error (even though it's clearly an flv), or sound but no picture. I have a theory that some flv files, like ones with ad or text overlays, have a wrapper that Kinoma chokes on. Is that the case, or is there a way to actually play these videos?
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    For the benefit of those wanting to make an efficient comparison, can you state which codecs are and aren't supported by the free version...
    Kinoma Player 4 supports FLV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    I seem to remember a discount mentioned for POS users with a 4 EX license buying the WM version of Kinoma Play.
    That was a one-time offer that's gone forever. You can get Kinoma Play for free by checking out with TrialPay, and many thousands of customers have "purchased" Kinoma Play that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    This question is for both POS and WM versions. Is there a way to grab or navigate to the url of a video embedded within a page and launch it directly?
    It's up to the browser. I don't personally know of a mobile browser that supports embedded videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    If I'm able to procure the url for a certain non-YouTube Flash videos from my desktop, [...] I'll often get one of two errors: either the "file format not supported" error (even though it's clearly an flv), or sound but no picture.
    If the file is using the proprietary VP6 codec, it's only playable with Flash on a PC. However, Adobe has deprecated VP6 in favor of standards-based AVC (H.264).

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    Bob,


    I understand, and we're sorry we won't have the chance to have you as a customer.

    But as a leading and long-time Palm OS software developer, we learned long ago that software that tries to fake "background app" functionality via OS hacks is one of the top culprits -- if not the top culprit -- for phone slowness, instability, and resets. (If you have software that does that and you haven't seen any of those problems on your phone, I'm glad for you and hope it lasts.)

    If you want reliable background audio playback, my recommendation is Kinoma Play on a Treo 800w.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Well, while waiting in line to vote this morning, I listened to an hour's worth of music, while surfing multiple web sites (including this one). Yup, I was using pTunes, 'cause Kinoma wouldn't have let me do that. Heck, with Kinoma I can't even listen to music uninterrupted, because other applications' background processing keeps making the music hicup.

    My 755p seems to be working fine, with only very rare resets, and performance I consider acceptable. I agree that having a bunch of background apps running simultaneously is likely to be a problem, but pTunes seems to be very stable.

    You seem to be comfortable with your decision, and that's great, but I'm sure it's costing you sales.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Well, while waiting in line to vote this morning, I listened to an hour's worth of music, while surfing multiple web sites (including this one). Yup, I was using pTunes, 'cause Kinoma wouldn't have let me do that. Heck, with Kinoma I can't even listen to music uninterrupted, because other applications' background processing keeps making the music hicup.

    My 755p seems to be working fine, with only very rare resets, and performance I consider acceptable. I agree that having a bunch of background apps running simultaneously is likely to be a problem, but pTunes seems to be very stable.

    You seem to be comfortable with your decision, and that's great, but I'm sure it's costing you sales.
    Preach on brotha man, I've NEVER had problems with PTunes running in the background!!!!
  9. #49  
    While Kinoma has a great media guide and can do a lot of things - for background play while using other programs -> PTunes ROCKS!
    www.MouseGlider.com
    Come Glide with Us

    Rock Solid and Stable - Sprint Centro and Treo 755p
  10.    #50  
    Bob,

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I agree that having a bunch of background apps running simultaneously is likely to be a problem, but pTunes seems to be very stable. You seem to be comfortable with your decision, and that's great, but I'm sure it's costing you sales.
    Possibly, but given our many years of experience supporting Palm OS customers, we know how many problems are actually caused by badly-behaved Palm OS apps instead of our own products.

    I'm not necessarily disparaging one app. More than one popular app/utility thinks it's okay to hack around Palm OS to simulate multitasking, and that's where the slowdowns, crashes and resets start.

    For us, we consider it a mission not to affect the stability of our customers' phones.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  11. #51  
    Am I missing something in this conversation. Don't Treos and centros come with pTunes pre-installed? Why would palm include an app that causes instability on the device. I do agree that some of the upgrades have caused problems, but the pre-installed version works like a charm. Charles, I do like KP 4EX but I think you are bieng a bit unfair here when it comes to ptunes. The app works perfectly and has never been the cause of a reset on my device. As a long time developer I think you should be a bit less critical of other successful developers. I have been using apps by yourself, Rob (hobbyist), Dmitry, Shimon, and a host of other long time developers. KP4 was not perfect when first released but diligent users like myself and others help you improve your app. So I think you should give credit where its due. If it is your choice not to add background play (which I think would greatly improve the usability of your app) then that's a personal choice, but don't talk down others that have done so successfully.
  12. UserOne
    UserOne's Avatar
    #52  
    Perhaps I'm just interpreting this differently, but I didn't read the above comments from Charles@Kinoma to be critical or denigrating, just as an example of what their company chooses not to do.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by UserOne View Post
    Perhaps I'm just interpreting this differently, but I didn't read the above comments from Charles@Kinoma to be critical or denigrating, just as an example of what their company chooses not to do.
    But Charles/Kinoma "does say" it can't be done without causing problems - I really don't think Sprint would allow a piece of software to be standard in rom to be put out to the public in past and current Treos/Centros if it would cause stability problems.

    Look how many Centros are out there and how many users would be pissed especially since they cannot take PTunes out of rom. That would mean more than 2 million plus users have phones that are unstable and reset most of the time.

    As a manufacture, I certainly would not take that chance, and if I knew it "might" cause a problem, but wanted to "still" include it, I certainly would not embed the software into rom which is permanant, I would a make it so it is user installable and that could be uninstalled if there were a problem.

    So I agree with Babywayne and others above who have said they have had no problems with PTunes. I know mine Treo 755p and Centro works perfect! My Treo 755p only has occasional resets and most are always due to BT. The Centro that does not use BT and hasn't had a reset that I can actually remember in over months. If any resets were caused it was because of when On Demand forced you to upgarde to Pocket Express when their servers were flakey.
    www.MouseGlider.com
    Come Glide with Us

    Rock Solid and Stable - Sprint Centro and Treo 755p
  14. UserOne
    UserOne's Avatar
    #54  
    I agree on the Pocket Express / On Demand thing... according to SafeGuard atleast the majority of the few crashes / resets i get on my 755p are because of Pocket Express.

    I, of course, am not Sprint, Dan Hesse, or privy to any insider information there so I really don't know why they included things like On Demand & pTunes in the ROM. I do know that in my experience, On Demand has not been very stable and in pTunes defense it does have an option to disallow background playback.

    L8R
  15. #55  
    is there a way to use the kinoma 4 ex player on the palm to stream from the XM sat radio web site?
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet423 View Post
    is there a way to use the kinoma 4 ex player on the palm to stream from the XM sat radio web site?
    Or the Sirius website?

    I'm speaking as a subscriber to Sirius, mind you, with a streaming radio login and password.

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by UserOne View Post
    Perhaps I'm just interpreting this differently, but I didn't read the above comments from Charles@Kinoma to be critical or denigrating, just as an example of what their company chooses not to do.
    Yep, I hope that's how it comes across.

    Quote Originally Posted by MouseGlider View Post
    But Charles/Kinoma "does say" it can't be done without causing problems...
    If you recall DOS, apps that continue to do stuff after you quit them are like old DOS TSRs. When a host OS doesn't support background application processes (like DOS and Palm OS), by definition anything that works in the background is a hack. One app that does this won't neccessary cause problems. However, the odds of problems grow exponentially with each app that does it. As with TSRs, the results are kind of insidious, hard to track down, and result in mysterious slow-downs as often as crashes.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  18.    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet423 View Post
    is there a way to use the kinoma 4 ex player on the palm to stream from the XM sat radio web site?
    I don't know how the Sirius/XM merger might have affected this, but you can try these recommendations for XM stations:

    http://blog.kinoma.com/2007/07/xm-sa...kinoma-player/

    wernst: Unfortunately, I don't know of a solution for Sirius stations.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
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