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  1.    #1  
    I'm not impressed at all with Kinoma's functionality, and feel like I wasted the small amount spent ($15) for the upgrade. Ptunes is better than Kinoma for streaming and playing audio.

    What I am really annoyed about is that Palm associated Kinoma so tightly with Blazer that Kinoma cannot be disabled. I HATE THAT ...particularly when it comes to downloading a media file. Why did Palm decided it was necessary to force media file association with Kinoma? I appreciated that I could simply download a media file in my Treo 650 rather than stream it first in most cases through Kinoma. I'd been much happier disabling Kinoma from Blazer rather than feeling pushed to have to upgrade.

    Obviously a single media player application that is more universal and robust is needed for smartphones in general, but if Palm was hoping to encourage Kinoma as the up-and-comer, that is a mistake. mmplayer seems to have more and better functionality than Kinoma...and I'm referring in particular to the types of codecs and files/formats that can be played WITHOUT CONVERSION. I'm not interested in buying another (Kinoma) application (e.g. Producer) just so I can convert media files to be compatible with Kinoma's player.

    A successful smartphone media player application is going to play a wider range of media without conversion. It's also not going to interfere (by trying to stream the file) if you just want to download the media to play later.
  2. #2  
    Interesting opinion. I've been pleased with Kinoma's functionality. Then again I've never tried mmplayer. I'd recommend voicing your concerns about what's missing in the Kinoma forums. They've been good to accept feedback and incorporate functionality into their product.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo View Post
    What I am really annoyed about is that Palm associated Kinoma so tightly with Blazer that Kinoma cannot be disabled.
    Check out the "Register for streaming audio" preference in the manual. If turning that off doesn't fix your problem, then your other apps aren't properly registering the file and stream types that they can handle with Palm OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo View Post
    mmplayer seems to have more and better functionality than Kinoma...and I'm referring in particular to the types of codecs and files/formats that can be played WITHOUT CONVERSION.
    Such as?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo View Post
    I'm not interested in buying another (Kinoma) application (e.g. Producer) just so I can convert media files to be compatible with Kinoma's player.
    You don't need to, since there are tons of free and commercial tools that can create MPEG-4, Windows Media and FLV files. (In fact, I even wrote a lengthy blog post about how to do this with Nero.)

    Our forum is a great place to get help.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  4. #4  
    I like the Podcast support in Kinoma, I dont believe that's available in ptunes.
  5. #5  
    A totally uneducated viewpoint. You really ought to consider taking your complaint up directly with the vendor before airing your ignorance in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo View Post
    I'm not impressed at all with Kinoma's functionality, and feel like I wasted the small amount spent ($15) for the upgrade. Ptunes is better than Kinoma for streaming and playing audio.

    What I am really annoyed about is that Palm associated Kinoma so tightly with Blazer that Kinoma cannot be disabled. I HATE THAT ...particularly when it comes to downloading a media file. Why did Palm decided it was necessary to force media file association with Kinoma? I appreciated that I could simply download a media file in my Treo 650 rather than stream it first in most cases through Kinoma. I'd been much happier disabling Kinoma from Blazer rather than feeling pushed to have to upgrade.

    Obviously a single media player application that is more universal and robust is needed for smartphones in general, but if Palm was hoping to encourage Kinoma as the up-and-comer, that is a mistake. mmplayer seems to have more and better functionality than Kinoma...and I'm referring in particular to the types of codecs and files/formats that can be played WITHOUT CONVERSION. I'm not interested in buying another (Kinoma) application (e.g. Producer) just so I can convert media files to be compatible with Kinoma's player.

    A successful smartphone media player application is going to play a wider range of media without conversion. It's also not going to interfere (by trying to stream the file) if you just want to download the media to play later.
  6.    #6  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo
    I'm not interested in buying another (Kinoma) application (e.g. Producer) just so I can convert media files to be compatible with Kinoma's player.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post

    You don't need to, since there are tons of free and commercial tools that can create MPEG-4, Windows Media and FLV files. (In fact, I even wrote a lengthy blog post about how to do this with Nero.)

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    There are (free) transcoders out there! No kidding, Charles. (I use SUPER and VLC many times for transcoding files to DVD standard.) My point about transcoding was that I don't want to have to transcode a file (with Producer or any other application) to play on my Palm. Period.

    A good media player will allow you to play the file that was accessed from the web directly by the smartphone. The moment you have to start transcoding the file and then transferring it on the smartphone, the point of a media player with limited functionality becomes considerably less valuable.
  7.    #7  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo
    What I am really annoyed about is that Palm associated Kinoma so tightly with Blazer that Kinoma cannot be disabled.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    Check out the "Register for streaming audio" preference in the manual. If turning that off doesn't fix your problem, then your other apps aren't properly registering the file and stream types that they can handle with Palm OS.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Give me a break, Charles! The first thing I did with Kinoma was unselect "Register" and select "Prefer Download". The problem is that "Prefer Download" doesn't always work, AND Kinoma's own manual acknowledges that:

    "Note: Some web servers and media file formats support only one playback method – either progressive download or streaming. In these cases, the “Prefer download to streaming” setting is ignored."

    GREAT! So whether I like it or not, Kinoma interferes w/ Blazer and streams the media if the web server or media file is picky. I NEVER had this problem with Treo 650. If I wanted to download the file from Blazer, It downloaded. Period. No interference from Kinoma.
  8.    #8  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BoNoTrEo
    mmplayer seems to have more and better functionality than Kinoma...and I'm referring in particular to the types of codecs and files/formats that can be played WITHOUT CONVERSION.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    Such as?

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Such as mpeg1 and mpeg2 for starters.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    A totally uneducated viewpoint. You really ought to consider taking your complaint up directly with the vendor before airing your ignorance in public.
    < < edit by Dieter: removed personal attack > >. All of the complaints I posted are legitimate complaints for which the vendor currently has NO solution:

    1. Limited media playback w/o conversion
    1.a. less universal playback capability than mmplayer
    2. Interference w/ Blazer's download function.
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 06/20/2008 at 10:51 AM.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by miles4000 View Post
    I like the Podcast support in Kinoma, I dont believe that's available in ptunes.
    Maybe, but I've never been much for podcasts.

    But Kinoma's menu for getting to various radio broadcasts is very cumbersome. IMHO, pTunes has a better GUI.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    You don't need to, since there are tons of free and commercial tools that can create MPEG-4, Windows Media and FLV files.
    I'd also add that Kinoma's emphasis on FLV support over other types maybe a poor decision. The whole online media world is not youtube. I'd suspect there is as much worthwhile WMV 7 content out there as FLV... And FLV quality stinks! Sorry not interested in using Producer to convert to stinky FLV quality to watch on my Palm-mandated media player, Kinoma.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by peterlemonjello View Post
    Interesting opinion. I've been pleased with Kinoma's functionality. Then again I've never tried mmplayer. I'd recommend voicing your concerns about what's missing in the Kinoma forums. They've been good to accept feedback and incorporate functionality into their product.
    I don't care about getting Kinoma support. I didn't want Kinoma in the first place. I felt like I got suckered into an applilcation that I never would have chosen on my own except that it was associated so tightly with Blazer. I hate that kind of crap. That's the sort of user-controlling-approach Microsoft does. And power-users like me want control, not spoon-fed crap.

    I figured if Palm was supporting this application so strongly it must be good, and given the small upgrade cost, why not. But it obviously fell below my expectations. Super-dooper youtube support... WAA-FREAKING-HOO. Now I'd rather have paid another $15 to have a version of Centro without Kinoma in ROM.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    A totally uneducated viewpoint. You really ought to consider taking your complaint up directly with the vendor before airing your ignorance in public.
    bclinger, I'd also like to point out that I've used a Palm-based smartphone since the visorphone. I've been uninterested in Kinoma that whole time for good reason.

    < < edit by Dieter: removed personal attack > >
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 06/20/2008 at 10:53 AM.
  14. #14  
    I thank you for those compliments! You are very impressive.
  15. #15  
    I can't hope to match 8 posts in a row (!), so I hope nobody minds a batch response.

    • BoNoTrEo: If you bought Kinoma Player within 30 days, just contact our support folks and let them know you'd like a refund. It's clear you didn't know what you were buying.


    • We don't "emphasize FLV support over other types" -- no other Palm player supports Windows Media Video, for example -- but we are proud that we gave our customers the first mobile YouTube support in the world.


    • If you believe that you can take files all designed to play well on a 2 GHz PC with hardware video acceleration, and play them directly on a 312 MHz battery-powered device with no hardware video acceleration, then you and my grandma have a similar understanding of the technology involved. It's just not possible.


    • MPEG-1 is a very old file format that isn't suitable for streaming, so we have no plans to support it. MPEG-2 is fine for broadcast applications, but it's horrible for phones and PDAs. That's why MPEG-4 exists.

    I hope this is helpful,

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  16. BaDZeD's Avatar
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    #16  
    Kinoma is a fine player with an awesome media library feature.
  17. #17  
    Kinoma works great with Orb, to watch TV from my home computer.
  18. #18  
    This thread is an excellent reminder to all of us that we need to play before taking something seriously (i.e., buying a license). Failure to adequately play and not taking the problem directly to the developer does not justify what is displayed in this thread.
  19. waldo15's Avatar
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    #19  
    I hate to take sides on this... but I am siding with Kinoma. I had my old 700p with Kinoma 4 EX and TCPMP and that combination was the 1-2 I needed for all my online video needs. There was literally no format that I could not watch in my Treo... well, maybe WMV files but what content that is worth watching is encoded in WMV anyways?

    And if there is something you don't like about Kinoma, go to their forums and/or send them a note. They DO listen and improve the tool with user feedback.

    Definitely it's a good rule of thumb to play with the software before buying it, just FYI.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    This thread is an excellent reminder to all of us that we need to play before taking something seriously (i.e., buying a license). Failure to adequately play and not taking the problem directly to the developer does not justify what is displayed in this thread.
    I thought I read somewhere that Kinoma doesn't have a trial version due to some licensing issues (though I saw that Charles offered a refund within 30 days). Just a point of clarification...unless I am mistaken.
    3 Sharp Wizards (who can remember the model #'s anymore?) -> REX -> PalmPilot -> PalmPilot w/1 MB Upgrade -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Treo 90 -> Treo 600 (Sprint) -> Treo 650 (Sprint) -> Treo 700p (Sprint) -> Treo 755p (Sprint) -> Centro (KB & Batt too small) -> Treo 755p & Black Centro

    Current "essential" programs: Chatter, 2day, TakePhone, SplashID, PalmPDF, 4Cast, DA, GoogleMaps, BackupMan, PowerHero, KeyCaps, LudusP, mSafe, TextPlus, VolumeCare, ePocrates, zLauncher.
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