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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    why this seidio 2600mah battery always drop its battery level from 32% to 0% in 1 second?

    PS. when charging, battery level go from 68% to 100% in a second as well.

    Already charged 3 times!
    Very interesting, both times it jumped exactly 32%, when charging and also when discharging. This is also close to the 40% added capacity that Seidio claims.

    I'm wondering if it could be a problem with the Centro and the way it calibrates battery capacity, in other words, it was used to your standard battery but now needs re-calibrated with the newer one.

    Of course it's too late since you already sent it in but I'd be curious to see what would happen if you went through a few cycles of charging to full and then letting it discharge until it completely dies. Ignore the 0% and just let it keep discharging until the phone dies. Then charge it overnight and repeat.

    Maybe that will re-calibrate the Centro's battery meter. Perhaps if someone else that gets the battery could try that if they have a similar issue.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimmer View Post
    Very interesting, both times it jumped exactly 32%, when charging and also when discharging. This is also close to the 40% added capacity that Seidio claims.

    I'm wondering if it could be a problem with the Centro and the way it calibrates battery capacity, in other words, it was used to your standard battery but now needs re-calibrated with the newer one.

    Of course it's too late since you already sent it in but I'd be curious to see what would happen if you went through a few cycles of charging to full and then letting it discharge until it completely dies. Ignore the 0% and just let it keep discharging until the phone dies. Then charge it overnight and repeat.

    Maybe that will re-calibrate the Centro's battery meter. Perhaps if someone else that gets the battery could try that if they have a similar issue.
    I did exactly what you said. I let it drain completely. First two times, I did charge it when it showed 0%, but following 3 times I waited until it shutdown.

    I followed the battery reset procedure mentioned at treonauts forum, didn't help. When using battery.prc, I can see that centro recognizes the battery pretty well, and I can literally watch the discharging from 7xxmAh suddenly dropped to 6mAh. I would be fine if 5 charges show any slight improvement, but it always fail at 32%. I searched around and read battery conditioning, calibration, resetting, etc. This just doesn't seem normal.
  3. #23  
    When is this going to be available again? I'm disappointed with Seido. Every time I go there to look for an accessory the one I want is always out of stock. Oh well. Maybe I'll check eBay.
  4. #24  
    I'm waiting for a treocentral review.
  5. bbtkd's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrGuard View Post
    I'm waiting for a treocentral review.
    You'll have a long wait as I believe it was quickly discontinued. Not sure if there were problems that led to this or that they figured out that a product that fattened up a slim phone was bad karma. Personally, I've found that my Centro on a stock battery far outlasts my 700P with a 2400mah battery, due to improved reception not causing it to waste power looking for coverage while I am at work in fringe coverage. The Centro has usable signal in far more parts of the building than my 700P did. Still - If they offered a larger battery in the same form factor, I'd buy it but no special lumpy battery cover for me!

    I see the the Treo Pro finally does it right. They made the battery take up nearly the whole back, allowing a larger capacity.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbtkd View Post
    You'll have a long wait as I believe it was quickly discontinued.

    Whoa, really? They didn't just run out of stock for now?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbtkd View Post
    I see the the Treo Pro finally does it right. They made the battery take up nearly the whole back, allowing a larger capacity.
    I only wish they made a Sprint POS version (with same specs) of the Treo Pro
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrGuard View Post
    Whoa, really? They didn't just run out of stock for now?
    I recall reading it was withdrawn, though I don't recall where I saw that. I do note that it is still on their site, but has been shown as "currently unavailable" for many weeks now.
  9. #29  
    Well, it can't be ordered, so I suspect there is certinaly something up. Many places will allow you to order backordered stuff, but make it clear you won't be getting it soon...

    I really want an extended slim battery - that I'd pay bucks for....
  10. #30  
    Anyway try those eBay ones? The ones that are rated at 2250 mAh?
  11. #31  
    Oh, but a high capacity battery would be so nice.

    The centro really doesn't last long at all as an MP3 player. And don't even try to use this as an internet radio player.

    If you want to see something entertaining, stream some internet radio and use A2DP to stream it to some nice bluetooth headsets. You'll be lucky to get a full song in before the battery melts through the centro casing.
  12. #32  
    I use mine to stream radio and it usually gives me a good 2hrs or so before the low battery warning pops up. Not great but not horrible either. I will note that I don't stream it to a bluetooth headset nor use the phone for anything else when I stream.
  13. elf
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    #33  
    I received my extended battery for my Sprint centro (CDMA) two days ago now (2200mah). I let it drain all the way (until it forced itself off and wouldn't come back on). Then plugged it in and let it charge up fully. For some reason the centro does not realize that the battery is different, and apparently still thinks it is about 1187mah. This means that the battery meter will show 0% left after it has drained about 1187 of the 2200 mah in the battery, and for the rest of the day/night I have to deal with all the low battery warnings. I have done the complete drain and charge twice now, but still no difference. I tried the new version of battery.prc, to both unset the ignore voltage for calibration, and to specifically set the mah remaining, but neither seems to work. At one point during a charge, i noticed that it was determining that it had charged up 1500+mah (while still claiming that the capacity was 1187), but after the charge was done, it thought it was only 1187mah again.

    I have been reading in various forums of people suggesting the discharge/charge method fixes this by "recalibrating" the battery meter in the treo, but it just doesn't seem to be working for me.

    So now I am beginning to wonder... Has anyone gotten an extended battery to work on their centro yet?
    Has anyone else had this problem and overcome it?

    sigh..
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    I received my extended battery for my Sprint centro (CDMA) two days ago now (2200mah). I let it drain all the way (until it forced itself off and wouldn't come back on). Then plugged it in and let it charge up fully. For some reason the centro does not realize that the battery is different, and apparently still thinks it is about 1187mah..
    Perhaps this is why the Seidio is unavailable...
  15. elf
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    #35  
    Thats exactly what I am beginning to wonder, although my battery is not from seidio, its this one from wirelessground - http://www.wirelessground.com/centroblkbatt.html

    I thought I would try it after getting way too frustrated with the stock centro battery.. but now with all the trouble I am having getting the centro to recognize it as anything more than the stock rating at 1187mah, and the lack of any positive comments, I'm beginning to wonder what the deal is. I wish I knew how one could get the centro to recognize more out of it since it is clearly there.
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Thats exactly what I am beginning to wonder, although my battery is not from seidio, its this one from wirelessground - http://www.wirelessground.com/centroblkbatt.html

    I thought I would try it after getting way too frustrated with the stock centro battery.. but now with all the trouble I am having getting the centro to recognize it as anything more than the stock rating at 1187mah, and the lack of any positive comments, I'm beginning to wonder what the deal is. I wish I knew how one could get the centro to recognize more out of it since it is clearly there.
    Normally, devices with batteries measure voltage drop to determine level of charge. Such devices can therefore be used with extended batteries with no problem. It sure sounds like for some reason Palm decided to just time usage instead of monitoring voltage, but it is beyond me why they would do that as it would be much more complicated. Another option is that the voltage characteristics of the cells in these extended batteries do not follow the same voltage drop pattern as the OEM. Perhaps they are a different formulation (not LI-Ion). One last possibility is that despite their extra size, these extended batteries could actually be the same capacity as OEM and the only thing extended is the size...
  17. elf
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    #37  
    I have noticed that battery.prc always starts up with "disable voltage based recalibration" checked, no matter how many times I uncheck it. Right now the palm battery meter shows 4% left, and battery.prc shows only 73mah left (although I know it has much more than this left.. its gonna run for many hours still even if i am trying to drain the battery playing streaming video, all the while annoying me with battery low warnings). At the same time, battery.prc is reporting 3.8volts (which seems high for 4% since the battery is technically rated at 3.7 and a full charge will get up to 4.2 or so? can you or anyone confirm this? I'm not sure what the 0% meter voltage should be around?)

    The battery itself states "For Palm Centro 690 Li-ion 2200mAh Battery".

    With all this, as best as i can seem to tell, it seems that somehow my centro *is* using some kind of mAh usage function instead of the voltage. Has anyone used the battery.prc on other palm devices noticed that "disable voltage based recalibration" is always checked upon running it? Is it just the centro? or just mine?

    Right now I have battery.prc on the card so it doesnt auto-run after every reset (this way i can reset to clear anything it may be doing).
    I am also running PowerHero (automatic on startup however), which also appears as if it were working off of a mAh based calibration instead of voltage.

    I'm really lost here, but I am thinking that most likely, centro uses mAh for its battery meter, and somehow has a setting that specifies (or measures somehow initially?) the mAh flow from the battery. Given the graphing/metering ability of PowerHero and battery.prc, I wonder if this is the case on the newer palm models, and I just need to find a way to "recalibrate" those internal numbers? I don't recall this happening on my Treo 650 when I used an extended battery.

    The only other option i can think of is that a chip in the battery itself reports the mAh straight to the centro. This would seem less likely to me though, but i have to admit it sounds like it technically could be possible.

    It also seems interesting to me how i can take the battery out of the centro for a while, but as soon as i put it back in, battery.prc instantly reports the same mAh capacity, and mAh charge that it was reporting when i took the battery out. This makes it appear as if the centro either knows the battery state instantly upon "cold" powerup, or that it perhaps stores this info in NVram. I have tried this after a warm reset (to eliminate loading apps), so at this point I am thinking that the refusal to acknowledge a higher capacity battery is not the fault of any 3rd party apps.

    If anyone can confirm any of this, with their centro or other palm devices, I'd really appreciate hearing about it. Or if you have gotten your centro to work properly with an extended battery, especially if you have had trouble like this at first with it.
  18. #38  
    DISCLAIMER: I do not have either an extended or a spare standard battery to test with.

    That said I find it really hard to swallow that Palm uses any kind of usage based determination of battery life. Doing so would seem to preclude the use of any kind of spare battery -- regardless of whether it was an extended battery or not.
    From an engineering perspective, if a usage based algorithm was used, anytime you swapped a low standard battery for a fully charged standard battery the phone would still need to indicate low battery until the phone was placed on a charger which would, conceivably, be the triggering event for resetting the usage based calc. Anybody with a spare battery want to chime in here -- I'm betting if you swap a low battery for a full one the phone reports a full one.

    As to my opinion of what's happening with the "extended" batteries -- MAH ratings are good indications of the "capacity" of a battery and generally are an okay rule of thumb to follow when selecting batteries, HOWEVER, they are not necessarily a good indication of the power delivery characteristics of said batteries. From my many days in the digital photography world I can bring out many many examples of the same kind (i.e. NiMH, LI-Ion, etc) batteries where lower MAH rated batteries have better power deliver characteristics and last longer in digital equipment having non-linear variable power consumption. There have even been a number of different folks who've tested various types of batteries and found vast differences in the power delivery capabilities of equally MAH rated batteries -- differences as high as 50%.

    What I believe to be happening is the batteries provided as "extended" do indeed meet the higher MAH ratings they claim in steady state drain (i.e. drawing the batteries down through a resistive fixed load) but start to suffer badly under the variable loads placed on them by the phone.

    The cause of this could be any number of things ranging from it being simply a case of lower quality batteries to more involved charger issues where the batteries are not being fully charged due to the protective circuitry in the chargers cutting off prematurely, to ratings issues where the ratings are obtained by choosing a lower voltage threshold in testing than is appropriate for the phone (i.e. determining MAH rating based on power draw until the battery reaches a much lower voltage level than the phone can withstand).

    Personally, I'd expect it to be more of the third case than anything, based upon the anecdotal evidence some have posted here where the batteries seem to last longer but the phone complains much longer about a low battery. That would tend to lead me to believe that the batteries are drawn down to the warning level and then are able to withstand draw down better than stock batteries between the warning level and ultimate cutoff threshold.

    Again, as I stated at the beginning, I do not have either an extended nor a standard to test with (yet) but I do have a fair amount of experience using battery powered digital electronics.

    Questions for those who have the extended:
    Regardless of what the battery meters or whatnot may say --
    Does the battery seem to last longer under similar usage between fully charged and the initial low battery warning?
    Does the battery seem to last longer under similar usage after the initial low battery warning before the device shuts itself down?
  19. elf
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    #39  
    Questions for those who have the extended:
    Regardless of what the battery meters or whatnot may say --
    Does the battery seem to last longer under similar usage between fully charged and the initial low battery warning?
    Does the battery seem to last longer under similar usage after the initial low battery warning before the device shuts itself down?
    The extended battery gives about the same usage as the standard, from 100% meter down to 0%.
    The extended battery is rated almost double of the standard, and that is reflected in that after i get the 0%, I have only used about half of the battery and it has another halfway to go, only it will show 0% and give warnings the whole time.

    I made some interesting observations on the last discharge/charge.

    - when the meter was showing 0%, some apps refused to run (like the camcorder- it complained battery was too low, yet it had hours left to run, and voltage was ABOVE the 3.7 volts the battery is rated at!)

    - the device did appear to realize when the battery was TRULY about to run out. the warnings were different, and rescobackup refused to run at this point. (I noticed this during the last 10 minutes or so before shutdown.)

    - when I put it on the charger, I tried something else.. I took out the battery, waited 5 minutes, plugged the phone in (no battery) for a minute, then inserted the battery. It started charging very quickly (i watched the charge rate with PowerHero). The battery meter quickly rose from 0% immediately as it started charging.

    - As PowerHero showed that it was approaching 1100 mAh charge, the meter showed 99%.

    - As I passed the 1187 mAh mark, PowerHero counted the mAh charge all the way up to about 2200!

    - As soon as the charge was done (green light), PowerHero showed 1187 mAh (It "forgot" it just charged it to 2200!!!)

    -During discharge now, the centro battery meter is going down again as if it were a 1150 mAh battery!

    Following this pattern, I can expect that the centro will read 0% again at about half drain of the battery
  20. elf
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    #40  
    okay, so i did some more testing today, but the frustration over spending so much time on this in the past week put me quite over the edge.
    So-

    First, I called Palm. They offer free support for new devices within 90 days.
    The first tech support guy said this is normal behavior and that the battery meter is not accurate. Let me repeat that - He said that having a half full battery reading 0% charge is normal. I asked him if it was normal if you have half a tank of gas and the gas meter shows empty. He repeated that this is normal behavior, and the tech level 2 guy said so.

    As you can probably imagine, I was pissed.

    I asked to talk to the level 2 guy, and he complied and put me through. I explained the situation again, and interestingly the level 2 guy did NOT agree with the first, and said he didn't know what was going on. He had no idea how the battery calibration actually worked. He said he would forward this to the engineering team and I would receive a call back in 1-2 days.

    Okay, so then I had another thought, and spent some more time troubleshooting. This is what I did-

    I did a (actually, several) HARD RESETS, and tried experimenting with just the centro battery meter, and for good measure, I also tried with the battery.prc i have on the card. NO DIFFERENCE. Every time I took took out and put back the extended battery, it was showing 50% charge (which really means 75% charge on the actual extended battery.)

    Then I had an idea.. I went to fetch the stock battery (1150mAh) that came with the centro. I took out the extended battery(2200mAh) that was showing 50%, and I put in the stock battery. Guess what? 89%.

    Took out the stock battery, tried the extended battery. 50%.
    Took out the extended, put the stock back in. 89%.

    Okay, this means the centro is getting the readings FROM THE BATTERY ITSELF.

    Now we're getting somewhere... either its a bad battery in the batch, or there is obviously trouble manufacturing proper circuitry for the extended batteries.

    Next order of business - call wirelessground.com where I got the extended battery.

    The customer support person was very understanding of my situation, and complimented me on the exhaustive steps I took to isolate the issue (i guess it's rare that people actually do thorough troubleshooting before they call.)
    He was able to tell me a couple things of interest. First off, he believed the battery to be manufactured by Mugen. I don't know if this says anything on its own, but thats what he believed. He said that as opposed to some OEM batteries, the 3rd party batteries had more defective ones per batch. Secondly, he said no one there actually had a centro, so he was unable to verify complete compatibility personally, although their web site states that this extended battery is indeed compatible. Thirdly, he was however to tell me that they are selling a LOT of these extended batteries for centro, and he is not receiving tech calls on this issue. This makes me think that either I got a defective battery (more likely), or that out of all of these batteries they claim they are selling, no one is reporting that their batteries are not calibrating properly (less likely).

    He was very nice about the whole thing, and we agreed that he would ship a replacement battery immediately. I should expect to see it in 2-3 days time, and I'll be able to try out the replacement. If it works (i sure hope so), then I'll send him back the defective one. If it doesn't, I'll be sending them both back for a refund.

    So, Finally more clues and several steps closer to an answer as to what the heck is going on. In the meantime, I'm stuck without a good solution, but knowing there is potentially a working battery on the way makes me feel better about the whole thing. (unless the replacement doesnt work either lol)

    Crossing my fingers now and waiting

    questions/comments welcome, and after all this, I will definitely be posting an update.
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