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  1.    #1  
    I created a thread called "Why is Sprint Dying?"

    Now here is another thought. Today I took my bike to a local bike shop for a repair but it was closed. I was on my way to work and the bike was in the car. So I used TryDA to locate a bike shop near the office. I was then able to call them to see if their technician was there from within the program and pull up a Google Map of the location. All from my 755p.

    OK, so it didn't have GPS, but I know how to read a map and had a GPS in the car anyway. I was able to switch back and forth between Chatter reading e-mails (at red lights) and the map.

    Just want to let people know that PalmOS still rocks!
    3 Sharp Wizards (who can remember the model #'s anymore?) -> REX -> PalmPilot -> PalmPilot w/1 MB Upgrade -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Treo 90 -> Treo 600 (Sprint) -> Treo 650 (Sprint) -> Treo 700p (Sprint) -> Treo 755p (Sprint) -> Centro (KB & Batt too small) -> Treo 755p & Black Centro

    Current "essential" programs: Chatter, 2day, TakePhone, SplashID, PalmPDF, 4Cast, DA, GoogleMaps, BackupMan, PowerHero, KeyCaps, LudusP, mSafe, TextPlus, VolumeCare, ePocrates, zLauncher.
  2. hkklife's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'm not a programmer or a developer but I can think of 12 solid reasons right off the top of my head:

    1. Lack of preemptive multitasking/multithreading. This is a huge one and also one that prevents Garnet devices from ever being EVDO Rev. A-capable or utilizing any of the faster GSM UMTS/HSPA networks as well as doing anything other than barely managing to do very rudimentary multitasking (playing an mp3 in the background while reading an e-book, for example).

    2. No protected memory so one app crashing brings down the entire OS. Also random resets from seemingly innocent functions (that do things like fill up the DBheap/cache memory) that drive everyone crazy!

    3. Limited screen resolution support (320x480 is the max)

    4. BT stack that does not support anything higher than BT 1.2

    5. Maximum of only "two" wireless radios in a single device. So you can have cellular or BT or wi-fi & BT but not all 3.

    6. 4GB file size volume limit, so no official support for larger (6GB+) expansion cards viewed as one contiguous block. Also, Garnet has a 128mb main memory ceiling.

    7. The entire Palm OS Garnet telephony stack is in itself a kludge that Handspring came up with years ago that rides piggyback on top of the mostly-but-not-entirely ARM code of OS5. Just look at Palm's inability to port the Treo 680/GSM Centro's dialer app to CDMA Treos. Also, no native voice dialing, poor voice quality etc. makes Palm OS pale in comparison to the cheapest dumbphones when used for actual voice telephone comunication purposes.

    8. The NVFS support for NAND memory is inself another kludge that Palm came up with that OS5 is *NOT* optimized for. Also the OS lacks any method of intelligent management of power/battery life (ie, "Speedstep" CPU throttling).

    9. A huge lack of security (to put it simply)

    10. Limited choice of (easy) input methods. You have G2 or keyboard. That's it (at least as far as utilizing the standard PalmSource APIs).

    11. Weak native multimedia capabilities (made worse by Palm's constantly underwhelming hardware). No native Java functionality or flash support, no native accelerated graphics API, no 3D support, limited font support,

    12. Lots of legacy garbage left over from the old Palm OS 1/2/3/4 days supporting Dragonball processors, 4k clipboard limit, 64k record size limit, lack of native USB 2.0 speeds in Hotsync (and Hotsync/Palm Desktop itself!) etc etc etc etc etc

    13. And I haven't even touched on how difficult it's become for developers to develop for the platform and the uttter lack of support by Palm/Access to develop for Garnet. Not to mention how each new Palm OS device Palm releases breaks something else (remmber the problems with the DIA from the T3 to T5 to LifeDrive to TX?) that requires constant patching and repatching.


    I am sure those more enlightened than me can think of dozens more but the issues above are bad enough and will only get worse as time passes. Remember, Garnet was supposed to be an interim OS upon its release (fall 2002) and was supposed to be superseded by Cobalt in 2004. Then it was 2005, then 2006 and then Cobalt disappeared and FrankenGarnet kept shuffling along...
    Last edited by hkklife; 06/04/2008 at 10:50 AM.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  3.    #3  
    I was going to say "clearly not a PalmOS fan" but I see from your signature that you still use it. I am a bit surprised by your comments. Not at the accuracy of those statements, but at the fact that a long-time Palm user could come up with such a list.

    Don't get me wrong, I am always looking at the greener grass on the other side (either BB or WM) but I coulnd't come up with 12 things that are "that" bad about my current setup. I just want GPS. My device is stable enough.
    3 Sharp Wizards (who can remember the model #'s anymore?) -> REX -> PalmPilot -> PalmPilot w/1 MB Upgrade -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Treo 90 -> Treo 600 (Sprint) -> Treo 650 (Sprint) -> Treo 700p (Sprint) -> Treo 755p (Sprint) -> Centro (KB & Batt too small) -> Treo 755p & Black Centro

    Current "essential" programs: Chatter, 2day, TakePhone, SplashID, PalmPDF, 4Cast, DA, GoogleMaps, BackupMan, PowerHero, KeyCaps, LudusP, mSafe, TextPlus, VolumeCare, ePocrates, zLauncher.
  4. #4  
    I think we can close this thread... hkklife has summarized everything in the above post.... unless, one wants to go into a philosophical discussion about dying and death.

    I think Microsoft bribed (sorry, should have said "encouraged") the PalmOS/ GarnetOS/ CobaltOS/ WiFi teams to screw it up...
  5. hkklife's Avatar
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    #5  
    Despite those 12 (and counting) worrying concerns above, I'll STILL continue to use a POS device as long as is practical for me since I value the ease, simplicity, and utter brilliance of the Palm OS PIM apps & UI. Even with NVFS lag, it's still the fastest way to enter, recall, and view data on any mobile device. EVERYTHING else (voice, multimedia, gaming, aesthetics) for me is secondary. To be able to carry around a dozen years' worth of appointments, contacts, memos and contacts and almost instantly recall them is priceless.

    Gadgetfreak, the reason I'm able to come up with such a comprehensive list is BECAUSE I'm a long-time user of the OS. And those devices in my sig are just the ones I carried for more than 3-4 months as a daily device. If you add in the Clies, Zodiac, LifeDrive etc. that I tried and returned/sold, that list would easily be 2x as long!

    P.S. Add the lack of a native integrated GPS API to my list as #14! I have to admit that I'm honestly surprised Palm didn't partner up with Garmin to release a Palm-branded GPS-centric PDA sometime around 2006/2007. Something in between an E2 and a Z22 size-wise would've been perfect if Palm could've gotten it to market before the bottom fell out of the standalone personal nav hardware market.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  6. #6  
    The PIMs the thing
    That gives long life to the King (of PIMs).

    Sorry Will.

    BB
    Last edited by blazorboy; 06/04/2008 at 05:12 AM.
  7. #7  
    Having used a WM device and many Palms, even with all those negatives listed above - I still prefer Palm and I LOVE my 755. Just like with people, you are never going to find the perfect one.
    Sprint Treo 755p (blue) with SanDisk 2GB miniSD card. some of my apps installed: TakephOne, DateBk6, 2Day, 4Cast, BellTime 1.0, Palm PDF, Pocket Tunes Deluxe, Kinoma 4, TCPMP, Webmessenger, Card Reader, Slingplayer Mobile, Mobipocket Reader, PS Memo, Virtual Piano, Resco Backup, Cleanup, Uninstall, Destaller, Virtual Piano, Favogo, Snap, Thesaurus, TryDA, Colorize, ChatterEmail, DBFixit, Icon Manager, Noah Pro Dictionary, zLauncher, FileZ, RNS Cuckoo Clock, 25 games.
  8. #8  
    I would normally say it was due to the proprietary operating system, but in fact its probably because the OS is actually orphaned. Due to all the failed attempts to bring out an replacement it never actually got updated, and basically its dying of neglect.

    Surur
  9. #9  
    well honestly my treo 755p worked fine a few reset but way better than the 700p.I currently have a bb curve ( I had to see what all the fuss was about)and
    its ok the thing that made me jump ship was the 2mp camera with flash and the thinniest of it. It doesn't have threaded sms the web sucks and the keypad sucks it feels cheap. I'm waiting on the bold or the 800p but if it doesn't have flash and a better camera count me out palm.
    I'm StayFly, its not just a name its a lifestyle, so get some style in your life
  10. #10  
    Developers leaving Palm OS. Considering Palm barely updates their 1st party apps, Palm's lifeblood is 3rd party dev.
  11. #11  
    When someone buys a phone for a camera's performance, I think they have overlooked the market of very nice cameras that are very reasonaly priced.

    If you are wanting one of these exotic cameras on a phone, and then complaining that the phone isn't small enough, could there be something wrong with that logic?

    Small computer capability, flashes, multi megapixels cameras and multi radio capabilties do NOT fit into a smaller than candy bar phone.

    Sometimes a wish list is just not doable, espcially since I don't want to pay more for a phone that I can drop and lose than my computer.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by nmoreman View Post
    When someone buys a phone for a camera's performance, I think they have overlooked the market of very nice cameras that are very reasonaly priced.
    You could say the same thing about laptops (and people have)

    e.g.
    When someone buys a phone for a web browsing performance, I think they have overlooked the market of very nice laptops that are very reasonably priced.

    The whole smartphone market is about convergence and lightening the load. Having everything in a small package bring integration advantages too, like for example being able to e-mail a picture you took a second ago.

    By not improving cameras significantly the OEM's make the mistake microsoft made by not improving the web browsing experience significantly, and the companies risk being steamrolled by companies like Nokia that do take cameras on phones seriously.

    Surur
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by stayfly View Post
    well honestly my treo 755p worked fine a few reset but way better than the 700p.I currently have a bb curve ( I had to see what all the fuss was about)and
    its ok the thing that made me jump ship was the 2mp camera with flash and the thinniest of it. It doesn't have threaded sms the web sucks and the keypad sucks it feels cheap. I'm waiting on the bold or the 800p but if it doesn't have flash and a better camera count me out palm.
    So you buy mobile phones just to see what all the fuss is about and because of their integrated cameras?



    Ok ... as long as you're happy ...
  14. #14  
    They can improve the cameras, but no matter what the lens isn't going to be very good. The cost and size generally are not worth the reward for phones.

    You can have a 10megapixel phone camera that will most likely take crap pictures compared to a 2megapixel camera.

    Flash on the other hand is a relatively big issue. Without the flash a lot of phone cameras are 90% useless even in moderately dim light.
    Last edited by papped; 06/06/2008 at 04:30 PM.

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