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  1.    #1  
    A few days ago my Treo died and my company gave me a loaner until my new one came in. I sent GoTreo a request for a new license key and I got one from them in less than 24hrs, great. Then my new Treo arrived the next day (amazing). All of a sudden GoTreo tells me they now have a FEE to issue a new key. That crap. They employ a scheme that you need the HSSN number from the phone, the phone#, and the Hotsync ID to generate a key. Then they lay the support burden on customers.

    They send you a link to Paypal instead.

    Buh bye Launcher X after buying several versions!

    Bob
  2. #2  
    the only thing I can think of is that when u original app that it was version 1. 8 for example and now they are up to Version 4.0 and they charge a upgrade fee to go from version 2.0 to new versions. But still not right if all U want is a new key for the version U have.(not saying that's why but its an example of why some companies charge for new keys)
    Last edited by VaccPalm; 05/18/2008 at 08:19 AM.
  3. #3  
    Some developers have a limit on the number of new licenses in a specific time period. If they have an allowance of 1 per 3 month period (which isn't unreasonable), you would be over the limit.
  4. #4  
    I defently agree with the limits , I guess the OP never said how many times he asked for a Key. But yes limits prevent fraud and are a good policy.
  5. #5  
    I don't think this is just the OP. I think that gotreo is doing this to anyone requesting a new key. Something I find funny since Jeff has no intention of continuing development.
  6. #6  
    I am always amazed when this topic comes up for "discussion" - when somebody cries over this "upgrade" business... that a person pays a wimpy 9.95 USD for some utility and thinks they own the developer's soul. That the developer is NOT entitled to change their licensing poilicies. And the developer should be on-call and ready to fix a bug or post an enhancement.

    I also find it surprising that a person is willing to spend 400 USD upgrading the hardware and expects all software (I believe this is the more important part) should be upgraded free. It also doesn't look right to licence software on a temporary, loaner device.

    Do you realize that sometimes - esp. with PalmOS software - unless the developer charges for "upgrades" there may no software to licence? That the developer may move on to better things?
  7. #7  
    every since my days of dealing with gotreo (volumecare) when needing a key and even a replacement i was asked to send my hssn # and cell # and my hotsync id . this has not been something new that just started.

    anyway look at what he said
    he had his treo (1st key)
    his broke (2nd key loaner gets a new key)
    he gets replacement (3rd key)

    each treo has its own key so when he got his replacement the loaner know has a free copy of the sofware( where is that fair to the developer?)
    I can see your treo breaks you keep the same # same hotsync id and them a replacement key i think should be no problem.
    The main thing thats needed is the hssn# which is the id of the treo.
    This is a way to cut down on fraud (not saying this is your case or what your doing ) but it protects the developer.

    I have had problems in the past when i had a treo 650. the darn thing seem like it broke every week. I was very happy with the way jeff treated me and his process .

    just for the record with doc to go they charge a fee if you you need a replacement key more the so many times . not sre of how many times but i paid for it. was mad at first but i understand it . this is policy with some deveopers.

    thats why a good back up program is needed.

    reach out to jeff he is a good guy.
    I got my palm pre on day 1 Treo 755p with sprint
    Bug me , zlauncher , Treo memo, Volume care pro, Backupman , Takephone,Agendus, 2day, Holidates, lex spell, Bdictionary, Mundu, Adrian Money ,Genius, Callblock,minitones,Pocket Tunes Deluxe, doc2go,Timesheet, bible reader,Checkers sea War,Hot reverse ,sudoku and Black jack (All games are on my sd card) , Yaps and crytex, safeguard
    Nvback up on 2nd 1gig sd card
  8. #8  
    Actually your lucky to get a free code on your temp Treo. Developer's need to make money for their hard work. Jeff/GoTreo stands 100% behind their applications and always willing to help. No need to come on here bash GoTreo, if you knew the 2nd phone was a temp, you should have waited for your permanent phone. If you look at other developer's policy's the majority are the same. Good Luck....
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

    My beer blogs:

    Rev. Rhino on Flickr

    Rev. Rhino on Twitter
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    I am always amazed when this topic comes up for "discussion" - when somebody cries over this "upgrade" business... that a person pays a wimpy 9.95 USD for some utility and thinks they own the developer's soul. That the developer is NOT entitled to change their licensing poilicies. And the developer should be on-call and ready to fix a bug or post an enhancement.

    I also find it surprising that a person is willing to spend 400 USD upgrading the hardware and expects all software (I believe this is the more important part) should be upgraded free. It also doesn't look right to licence software on a temporary, loaner device.

    Do you realize that sometimes - esp. with PalmOS software - unless the developer charges for "upgrades" there may no software to licence? That the developer may move on to better things?
    To defend ae1m, he never commented on the upgrade pricing. His post suggests he has purchased various upgrades. That said, I'm curious if he clearly explained to GoTreo from the very beginning that his phone crashed, he would have a temp, and a new one would arrive shortly? If so, GoTreo may have been more flexible. Also, like GreenHex said, is Launcher X so critical that he HAD to have it installed on the the loaner? If so, there's a trial of Launcher X for 15 days or so.

    On the general topic of paying for software upgrades: I've noticed over the years this is a somewhat common topic in handlheld forums. However, these same complainers think nothing of paying for upgrades from the "big boys" such as Windows upgrades (XP to Vista), Norton Antivirus (2007 to 2008), etc....etc...etc...
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by john0394 View Post
    To defend ae1m, he never commented on the upgrade pricing. His post suggests he has purchased various upgrades. That said, I'm curious if he clearly explained to GoTreo from the very beginning that his phone crashed, he would have a temp, and a new one would arrive shortly? If so, GoTreo may have been more flexible. Also, like GreenHex said, is Launcher X so critical that he HAD to have it installed on the the loaner? If so, there's a trial of Launcher X for 15 days or so.

    On the general topic of paying for software upgrades: I've noticed over the years this is a somewhat common topic in handlheld forums. However, these same complainers think nothing of paying for upgrades from the "big boys" such as Windows upgrades (XP to Vista), Norton Antivirus (2007 to 2008), etc....etc...etc...
    Hello, I am the original poster. I have used Xlauncher through several upgrades. I was not looking for an upgrade and have no problem PAYING for software. I have a problem that, due to no fault of my own, the phone died and they want to charge me just to CONTINUE to use the product. I am only using one copy, my name and phone number has never changed.

    Looking back (searching for Xlauncher in Eudora) over many years, I have had several occasions where I needed to move to a new device and never had to pay to continue to use the current version.

    All my other registered apps are tied to my Hotsync ID and I could just re-enter my key. This was enough of a major pain in the **** already (need all new batteries (750-->755 different), need a new mem card (SD --> mini-SD), etc. This was adding to the misery.

    Bob
  11. #11  
    Hello Bob (ae1m)

    In your first post you said GoTreo "employs a scheme" using the HS SN for keys.

    Well Bob, GoTreo is not the only company that uses your device HS SN for keys. And some use a special app serial number that is created when you install the app.

    This cuts down on fraud from the customers.

    Most experienced Treo users use a backup program like NVBackup or Resco Backup to do a complete backup of their RAM to the card.

    You did not say what type of Treos you had and were getting, but if you got a temp Treo and replacement Treo that were the same as the one that died, you could have stuck the card into the temp and replacement Treos and installed the backup and you would have been good to go.

    Now, I don't use everything Jeff developes, and I don't use LauncherX, but Jeff is one of the few stand up developers out there.

    I think your issue could have been curtailed with some Treo education and proper thought.

  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post
    Hello Bob (ae1m)

    In your first post you said GoTreo "employs a scheme" using the HS SN for keys.

    Well Bob, GoTreo is not the only company that uses your device HS SN for keys. And some use a special app serial number that is created when you install the app.

    This cuts down on fraud from the customers.

    Most experienced Treo users use a backup program like NVBackup or Resco Backup to do a complete backup of their RAM to the card.

    You did not say what type of Treos you had and were getting, but if you got a temp Treo and replacement Treo that were the same as the one that died, you could have stuck the card into the temp and replacement Treos and installed the backup and you would have been good to go.

    Now, I don't use everything Jeff developes, and I don't use LauncherX, but Jeff is one of the few stand up developers out there.

    I think your issue could have been curtailed with some Treo education and proper thought.

    I second that as i stated above a good backup program would have solved this problem. It was a temp phone.
    have you reached out to jeff and explained the problem? or should i say what the problem was?
    I got my palm pre on day 1 Treo 755p with sprint
    Bug me , zlauncher , Treo memo, Volume care pro, Backupman , Takephone,Agendus, 2day, Holidates, lex spell, Bdictionary, Mundu, Adrian Money ,Genius, Callblock,minitones,Pocket Tunes Deluxe, doc2go,Timesheet, bible reader,Checkers sea War,Hot reverse ,sudoku and Black jack (All games are on my sd card) , Yaps and crytex, safeguard
    Nvback up on 2nd 1gig sd card
  13. #13  
    All,

    GoTreo has put a new policy in place for replacement license keys. Here are the facts:

    1) I have to hire a full time person just to provide replacement license keys to people.
    2) Until now, I have simply absorbed the cost of this service. I do not believe in raising the cost of applications to cover a cost that not everyone will use.
    3) I have never charged for upgrades to software. I don't think it is right to charge people for me to fix bugs!
    4) I have never charged for new device support. If you purchased VolumeCare, for example, on a Treo 650, you are welcome to load the new version on your Centro without charge! Each new device takes me approximately 1 week minimum of developement time to make that same application available on the new device.
    5) LauncherX was ported to the Treo's and we never charged a dime for new keys in the past. This means that if you purchased LX back in the '90s, you have not had to pay anything for the move to the Treo even though GoTreo did not collect your original purchase of the application since it was developed by Little Mobile Solutions.

    Well the time has come where GoTreo can not continue to cover the complete costs for all of these services. So I have made the decision to charge a fee for license key replacements. The key given at the time of purchase is absolutely valid for the live of the program. If something happens on your device that causes you to need a new key, that is out of GoTreo's control. This is the area that is causing GoTreo the most time and money. So this is the area that we have decided to charge for this service.

    Almost all of our applications will use either the HotSync ID or the HSSN number. One out of every 3 users don't use HotSync ID's any more. Those that do use it, find the file on the Treo that houses this ID becomes corrupted very easily and their license keys become invalid. That is why GoTreo uses the HSSN number for licensing. It is not possible to use the Phone Number since it is not available if the phone radio is turned off and GSM devices don't even have a phone number 100% of the time programmed into the phone. So the only universal method for licensing is the HSSN number. GoTreo also has an automated method in VolumeCare, RingCare and SafeGuard that allows automatic replacement license keys via the internet. This method is exempt from the new service fee but we need to have your phone number on file to use this service.

    GoTreo strives to produce the very highest product quality and customer service possible. Every day we do our very best to continue to earn your business.

    Jeff Gibson
  14. #14  
    Well said Jeff!
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

    My beer blogs:

    Rev. Rhino on Flickr

    Rev. Rhino on Twitter
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post
    Hello Bob (ae1m)

    In your first post you said GoTreo "employs a scheme" using the HS SN for keys.

    Well Bob, GoTreo is not the only company that uses your device HS SN for keys. And some use a special app serial number that is created when you install the app.

    This cuts down on fraud from the customers.

    Most experienced Treo users use a backup program like NVBackup or Resco Backup to do a complete backup of their RAM to the card.

    You did not say what type of Treos you had and were getting, but if you got a temp Treo and replacement Treo that were the same as the one that died, you could have stuck the card into the temp and replacement Treos and installed the backup and you would have been good to go.

    Now, I don't use everything Jeff developes, and I don't use LauncherX, but Jeff is one of the few stand up developers out there.

    I think your issue could have been curtailed with some Treo education and proper thought.

    I do backup, but a new phone comes with a new HSSN so a restore to the new phone renders LauncherX unregistered.

    Perhaps you need the education?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ae1m View Post
    I do backup, but a new phone comes with a new HSSN so a restore to the new phone renders LauncherX unregistered.

    Perhaps you need the education?
    treotraveler,did mis-speak on the HSSN comment. You are correct that a device change will come with an HSSN change. I despirately want this conversation to stay on the high road. Everyone's statements and opinions are absolutely valid. I made my last post in an attempt to explain the background and reason for the change in GoTreo's business model. In fact, when I initially began the license key fee, I was charging more than the $5.00 fee that is now being charged. Several users took the time to voice their opinions and I found them very valuable. So valuable in fact that I adjusted the fee to be reasonable and appropriate. I tell everyone this because I value feedback both positive and negative. Those that have followed GoTreo's history have seen this type of give and take senario before. GoTreo exists because of the needs of Treo users everywhere. I am determined to be a respected and valued Palm vendor. I will do so by listening and responding to my user base.

    I hope that by having an open door policy, GoTreo customers will understand and accept the changes that I have made to GoTreo's business model.

    Jeff
  17. #17  
    Speaking of Jeff's reputation and willingness to help - I can and will vouch for that on a personal level. Jeff and developers like him are to be valued by all of us.

    Ben
  18. #18  
    Ditto!
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

    My beer blogs:

    Rev. Rhino on Flickr

    Rev. Rhino on Twitter
  19. #19  
    ditto ditto .. im on that train before it leave (lol)
    jeff has been the best
    I got my palm pre on day 1 Treo 755p with sprint
    Bug me , zlauncher , Treo memo, Volume care pro, Backupman , Takephone,Agendus, 2day, Holidates, lex spell, Bdictionary, Mundu, Adrian Money ,Genius, Callblock,minitones,Pocket Tunes Deluxe, doc2go,Timesheet, bible reader,Checkers sea War,Hot reverse ,sudoku and Black jack (All games are on my sd card) , Yaps and crytex, safeguard
    Nvback up on 2nd 1gig sd card
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson View Post
    All,


    Almost all of our applications will use either the HotSync ID or the HSSN number. One out of every 3 users don't use HotSync ID's any more. Those that do use it, find the file on the Treo that houses this ID becomes corrupted very easily and their license keys become invalid. That is why GoTreo uses the HSSN number for licensing.
    Jeff Gibson
    Sorry, I call BS on that one. Every app I have on my Treo uses the hotsync ID for the registration key, and I can only think of one time, since I started using Palm devices (a Palm IIIx) that I've lost my license keys because of corruption and couldn't restore. I think vendors use HSSN for one reason only: prevent users from buying one license and putting it on multiple devices.

    Back to the original post, Jeff's decision to use the HSSN number makes using a backup to restore an app to a new device impossible. If Launcher X used the hotsync id (as it used to), a restore to the new device would have solved the problem without any action on Jeff's part. Jeff's decision to use the HSSN contributes to the volume of calls for replacement keys that he then says he needs to pay for.

    I have no issue with developers getting paid for thier work. I don't even have an issue paying for upgrades to new versions of products (assuming there is a real improvement, and the upgrade charge was disclosed at the time of original purchase--I have no tolerance for vendors who change the license terms after you buy, or play games with product names to imposed upgrade charges*).

    I DO have an issue with a charge to continue using a product I already paid for. If I replace my PC, and move my software from the old one to the new, I don't expect to have to re-purchase the software, or pay to move it. Why should I expect different on a Palm?

    But in this case the answer is easy. LauncherX is a weak product. It's feature set is years old ZLauncher is far more capable, TreoLauncher simpler, cleaner and more reliable. And buyers of both can expect future upgrades, unlike L-X. If you don't like Jeff's policies, vote with your wallet.

    * The history: I bought a product for the PC that promised lifetime free upgrades. A year or so later the vendor added one feature, called it "product-name PRO", and said it didn't qualify for free upgrades because it was a new product. Oh, and the new product only included free upgrades for one year.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
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