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  1.    #1  
    Hope this question makes sense and that you wise folks can help me.

    If I use Clean Start to not alert some apps of a start up, are these apps fully available to me if I selection them? I think so, but would like to better understand the implications of not alerting them. Also what is the meaning of Always start panels (what are panels)? Can one do w/o starting all the apps in ROM?

    I note from SafeGuard that a number of apps are running in the "Background" the running man shows up, including On Demand and one of its elements (it has a red running man even those it is an original prog.). What exactly does it mean to be running in the background (especially if it is not set to auto update etc.)?

    Finally, how can I remove apps from running in the background w/o inactivating them--at least keep them out of the background until I use them. Does this bring us back to Clean Start??

    Many thanks for putting up with these wordy questions.

    BB
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by blazorboy View Post
    I note from SafeGuard that a number of apps are running in the "Background" the running man shows up, including On Demand and one of its elements (it has a red running man even those it is an original prog.). What exactly does it mean to be running in the background (especially if it is not set to auto update etc.)?
    For a complete understanding of background processing, review the SafeGuard user manual. But basically, applications run in the background on the Palm by listening for Palm Events. These events are called Notifications. Things like the device just turned on, a HotSync just started, a key was pressed on the keyboard, etc..... Any applicaiton can "register" to get one or more of these notifications and there are about 50 that come from Palm. So if you see a running man in SafeGuard, this means that the application listens for these Event Notifications. If you tap on an applicaiton that has a running man, you will see more detailed information about that application and what event notifications it listens to. (BTW: if you see a RED running man, this means that this application is probably not doing background processing correctly and has a high chance of causing a crash when it does run). Again all of this is explained in more detail in the user manual.

    Finally, how can I remove apps from running in the background w/o inactivating them--at least keep them out of the background until I use them. Does this bring us back to Clean Start??
    Well there are a few ways of doing this. Clean Start is not one of them. To stop an application from running in the background, you need to disable the application. Typically application's provide this feature. Otherwise, you can Quarantine them with SafeGuard or you can move the application to the SD Card. The SD Card does not permit applications to run in the background. Background processing is only allowed when applications are installed in main memory.

    I am curious why you want to stop an application from running in the background? Is it to track down a problem or is it to stop applications like ON Demand from waking up and doing things? In this situation, On Demand provides user interface methods for limiting On Demands processing.

    Jeff
  3.    #3  
    Many many thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Jeff.

    My reason for asking about shutting down an app deals with On Demand. I already have it set not to sync (update) on its own and did not understand why it shows as a background app (other than being responsive to being selected from Hone or a hot key. I thought it might unnecessarily take up some resources. Further it shows with a Red Running Man which seems strange to me given that it is a "native" application from Sprint. Might this be like TakePhone--not really a bad prog even though it shows red??

    More importantly, behind my interest in using your fine prog, Reset Dr. and TealScan, is the occasional overnight dead freeze (=black screen and not response to any button, cured by a soft reset). Twice these happened at 3:00 AM with a Safeguard alarm shown at 3:00:28 AM the last time in the Activity Log. In neither case did it register a Crash only a Reset. I suspect Business Connect, but this last time no BC e-mail was coming in while the prior time (also 3:00 AM) there was a BC e-mail. Totally weird. Any ideas?

    In any case, thanks again Jeff.

    PS: what is a panel??
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by blazorboy View Post
    Many many thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Jeff.
    Not a problem. Glad to help.
    My reason for asking about shutting down an app deals with On Demand. I already have it set not to sync (update) on its own and did not understand why it shows as a background app (other than being responsive to being selected from Hone or a hot key. I thought it might unnecessarily take up some resources. Further it shows with a Red Running Man which seems strange to me given that it is a "native" application from Sprint. Might this be like TakePhone--not really a bad prog even though it shows red??
    It should be ok. You can check in the information screen of SafeGuard to see what events it uses. As long as the BELL icon is gone from the application, it should no longer be doing any auto updates. And yes, it "could" be that it is a safe application like TakePhone, but if you start having problems, it would be the first place to look.
    More importantly, behind my interest in using your fine prog, Reset Dr. and TealScan, is the occasional overnight dead freeze (=black screen and not response to any button, cured by a soft reset). Twice these happened at 3:00 AM with a Safeguard alarm shown at 3:00:28 AM the last time in the Activity Log. In neither case did it register a Crash only a Reset. I suspect Business Connect, but this last time no BC e-mail was coming in while the prior time (also 3:00 AM) there was a BC e-mail. Totally weird. Any ideas?
    What application(s) are shown to run at 3:00am? You can check this by looking for the bell icon in the active application screen and finding applicaitons that kick off at 3:00am. Is SafeGuard one of them? Are you in a trial period or a registered user?
    PS: what is a panel??
    Where did yo hear the term? In the generic Palm world panel typically refers to a feature set in the Prefs application. So applications can add additional panels to the Prefs application. Jeff
  5. #5  
    Hi,

    Just a note: TAKEphONE does show up in SafeGuard, but that's because it uses a special locking mechanism for the callback function - a mechanism that SafeGuard (or any other similar apps) can not detect.

    Thanks.
    Shimon Shnitzer
    Maker of TAKEphONE, 2day, 4cast, 2dial & CallCards -
    "Take telephony into your Palm"
    Web: http://www.shsh.com/products
    Blog: http://www.shsh.com/wordpress
    eMail: contact@shsh.com
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKEphONE View Post
    Hi,

    Just a note: TAKEphONE does show up in SafeGuard, but that's because it uses a special locking mechanism for the callback function - a mechanism that SafeGuard (or any other similar apps) can not detect.

    Thanks.
    I agree and tried to indicate that in my post, that there is no problem.

    BB
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson View Post
    Not a problem. Glad to help.
    It should be ok. You can check in the information screen of SafeGuard to see what events it uses. As long as the BELL icon is gone from the application, it should no longer be doing any auto updates. And yes, it "could" be that it is a safe application like TakePhone, but if you start having problems, it would be the first place to look.
    What application(s) are shown to run at 3:00am? You can check this by looking for the bell icon in the active application screen and finding applications that kick off at 3:00am. Is SafeGuard one of them? Are you in a trial period or a registered user?
    Where did yo hear the term? In the generic Palm world panel typically refers to a feature set in the Prefs application. So applications can add additional panels to the Prefs application. Jeff

    On Demand is now fixed--for reasons known only to Palm for a while there were two appearances of On Demand on the Home page. Once I hit one of them the other disappeared as did the red running man.

    To the more important point: I am a registered user and was happy to pay for your fine program (as I trust others will). The only application that showed with a bell was KSDatebook and its next alarm was set for 10AM that morning. SafeGuard had no bell but was a background application. The App. history showed that at the time of the freeze Safeguard sent a message (Reset?) of some sort (which I did not see). Let me emphasize: SG was NOT the cause of the freeze for I got these types of freezes before installing it. Actually that is why I installed it. Also I note again, that SG did not report this as a Crash but only a reset (at 3:00 AM). Somehow I feel that two freezes both at 3:00AM (together with the fact that virtually all my prior freezes have been overnight, and, hence maybe at 3:00????) is hard to explain. Unless an email comes in for Business Connect (via the hidden SMS method), nothing should happen at 3AM (for I have Versamail asleep at that time). As I noted above on one but not the other recent 3AM freeze there was an e-mail (yeah I work with Asia so ~3AM is not uncommon).

    Many thanks again.

    BB
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by blazorboy View Post
    On Demand is now fixed--for reasons known only to Palm for a while there were two appearances of On Demand on the Home page. Once I hit one of them the other disappeared as did the red running man.
    That is very unusual!
    SafeGuard had no bell but was a background application. The App. history showed that at the time of the freeze Safeguard sent a message (Reset?) of some sort (which I did not see).
    SafeGuard showed up as a background application in the Active Apps screen??? It should never do this.

    So in the SafeGuard Reset Log, you see a reset with SafeGuard's name listed? This means that SafeGuard was the foreground application at the time of the crash. Some of SafeGuard's features are disabled when you are in SafeGuard. So there is a chance that SafeGaurd missed the cause of the hang/crash.
    Somehow I feel that two freezes both at 3:00AM (together with the fact that virtually all my prior freezes have been overnight, and, hence maybe at 3:00????) is hard to explain. Unless an email comes in for Business Connect (via the hidden SMS method), nothing should happen at 3AM (for I have Versamail asleep at that time). As I noted above on one but not the other recent 3AM freeze there was an e-mail (yeah I work with Asia so ~3AM is not uncommon).

    Many thanks again.

    BB
    The thing is, something had to cause the Treo to wake up and start doing something at 3am. It sounds like it is not a 3rd party application alarm. Could be a ROM application's alarm or it could be a Phone event - like an SMS even if it is hidden. SafeGuard should catch the Phone event. Jeff
  9.    #9  
    PLS SEE MY COMMENTS IN CAPS.


    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson View Post
    That is very unusual!

    I AGREE AND IT IS GONE NOW. NEVER SAW ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN MANY GENERATIONS OF PALMS; BUT NOT A BIGGIE. YOUR PROG CAUGHT THAT SOMETIHNG WAS AMISS IN PUTTING A REDRM NEXT TO IT--GOOD CATCH, JEFF.

    SafeGuard showed up as a background application in the Active Apps screen??? It should never do this.

    I MAY HAVE MISSPOKEN: IT SHOWED UP IN THE APPLICATION ACTIVITY LOG JUST AFTER 3AM ON 3/26, I BELIEVE; BUT IT IS NO LONGER THERE HAVING BEEN REPLACED BY NEWER ACTIVITY.

    So in the SafeGuard Reset Log, you see a reset with SafeGuard's name listed? This means that SafeGuard was the foreground application at the time of the crash. Some of SafeGuard's features are disabled when you are in SafeGuard. So there is a chance that SafeGaurd missed the cause of the hang/crash.

    HERE IS WHAT I NOW SEE (ASIDE FROM RESETS THAT I DID WERE HAPPENED WHILE I WAS USING THE DEVICE):
    BIZCONN 3/26 3:00 AM
    BIZCONN 3/17 3:48 AM

    CRASH LOG (AGAIN BESIDES THOSE THAT I CASUED USING THE DEVICE)
    BLAZER 3/17 3:48 AM ....REASON: INCOMING SMS (HIGH) AND THERE WAS AN EMAIL ABOUT THAT TIME.
    NOTE SG DID NOT LOG THE 3/26 FREEZE=CRASH

    The thing is, something had to cause the Treo to wake up and start doing something at 3am. It sounds like it is not a 3rd party application alarm. Could be a ROM application's alarm or it could be a Phone event - like an SMS even if it is hidden. SafeGuard should catch the Phone event. Jeff
    THE INCOMING INVISABLE (BIZCONNECT) SMS SEEMS LIKELY BUT I CAN ONLY ACCOUNT FOR THE 3/17 FROM BIZ CONNECT. I KNOW OF NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD WAKE UP OR IS SET TO WAKE UP AT THE UNGODLY TIME IN THE MORNING (OTHER THAN ME I GUESS).

    I WILL CONTINUE TO MONITER IT AND TAKE MORE CAREFUL NOTES, ESP. OF THE ACTIVITY LOG.

    THANKS.

    WHY DOES NOT PALM HIRE YOU TO FIX THE SYSTEM FROM THE BEGINNING???

    BB
    Last edited by blazorboy; 03/27/2008 at 11:11 AM. Reason: A NOTE
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by blazorboy View Post
    PLS SEE MY COMMENTS IN CAPS.




    THE INCOMING INVISABLE (BIZCONNECT) SMS SEEMS LIKELY BUT I CAN ONLY ACCOUNT FOR THE 3/17 FROM BIZ CONNECT. I KNOW OF NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD WAKE UP OR IS SET TO WAKE UP AT THE UNGODLY TIME IN THE MORNING (OTHER THAN ME I GUESS).

    I WILL CONTINUE TO MONITER IT AND TAKE MORE CAREFUL NOTES, ESP. OF THE ACTIVITY LOG.

    THANKS.
    That would be great!
    WHY DOES NOT PALM HIRE YOU TO FIX THE SYSTEM FROM THE BEGINNING???

    BB
    Palm is actually doing a great job with their operating system releases these days!! Primarily the problems come form 3rd party applications that run into problems. That is why I created SafeGuard to catch and explain a large number of crashes that happen. Before SafeGuard, the causes of crashes was mostly a huge mystery. Just like crashes on Windows computers. The Blue screen never told you anything - and still doesn't. I have hopefully fixed the largest part of this mystery on Treo/Centro devices!! ;-)

    Jeff
  11.    #11  
    Jeff,

    I don't know whether your fine prog can find the cause. In any case: I awoke at 3:58 and as usually happens when there has been a BizConnect e-mail the green light was blinking.

    However the phone was otherwise black and frozen (the old problem). After a battery soft reset I found the following:

    The time was about 55 minutes behind: I had taken it off the auto update just to see if that might be the cause.

    The App Activity Log showed: (all on 3/28 except the last one here listed)
    SG 3:01:48 AM this really was at 4AM
    Phone 3:01:22 AM this was the phone app following the reset, again at 4am
    SG Alarm 3:00:45 this was the real time and the time of the freeze, I think.
    Blazer 10:38:13 PM (prior night) the last thing I used.

    Reset Log

    3/28 3:00 AM Blazer
    recall on 3/26 at 3:00 AM reset BizConnect
    and on 3/17 at 3:40 AM Blazer (this was a freeze)
    and on 3/15 3:00 AM Launcher (this was a freeze)

    Crash Log
    no entry re 3/28 or 3/17
    last relevant entry 3/13 3:48:18 Incoming SMS HIGH

    There was no Biz Connect email that came in at or around 3AM on 3/28 and none on my server.

    I have not prog that asks for anything in general and none at 3AM

    Active Apps
    showed the usual ones, with only KSDatebook with a bell (for 11 AM 3/28)


    Unrelated, I again got the double image of On Demand in the Launcher (Home) which went away when I launched On Demand.

    I should note that this is the second phone that does these freezes; both had BizConn on them. My wife's 755p (which has not 3rd party apps) does not do this.

    Ideas, prayers, smiles??

    BB

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