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  1. vjdup's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Even the HTC Touch doesn't have wifi. It's not because you don't pay for network data plans either. Most people that even use wifi will have an unlimited data plan anyways.

    It's a cost saving feature on the hardware production considering that a lot of networks provide high speed data over the network anyways. They probably figure that a large majority of people aren't going to have the need for the use cases listed here. Considering how many people jumped from the HTC Titan (wifi) to the HTC Touch (no wifi) willingly, I would say they are probably right.
    A unlimited plan that the subscriber pays for, per month. Was that the only difference between the two, the lack of wi-fi? Im not familiar with the HTC product.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by vjdupree View Post
    Without drivers it wont work for PalmOS

    Surur
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    It's a cost saving feature on the hardware production considering that a lot of networks provide high speed data over the network anyways.
    In fact with the Sprint Touch the wifi hardware is in there, just disabled, just like the GPS hardware has been lying in the Mongul for the last 3 months.

    Surur
  4. vjdup's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Without drivers it wont work for PalmOS

    Surur
    Im figuring that someone like Shadowmite could hack it, if we could get that iPhone out of his hand.
  5. #25  
    In fact with the Sprint Touch the wifi hardware is in there, just disabled, just like the GPS hardware has been lying in the Mongul for the last 3 months.
    It's not standard GPS though, it's AGPS. And Sprint locked it (until just recently) on the Mogul even for their own GPS service. So they locked out a service that you pay them to use, making it not an option.

    So there's more to it than just that.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by vjdupree View Post
    Does not list PalmOS compatibility . . . . .
    http://www.spectec.com.tw/products_d...ptype=w1sdw823

    The problem is either Sprint or FrankenGarnet. And since the 800w on Sprint is rumored to have WiFi -- that eliminates Sprint from the conversation for the moment.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Personally, I don't get the need for Wi-Fi. I had a phone with both EV-DO and Wi-Fi and never turned Wi-Fi on. The battery like was too short, the coverage was (of course) limited, and the speed was really no faster.
    1) Not every corner of the earth has CDMA (or GSM for that matter) coverage. In 2008 there are a LOT of open WiFi hotspots, even in remote parts of third world countries. If I have Sprint yet want to access my data while travelling outside my carrier's limited coverage area - WiFi is about all that can fill that gap.

    2) Most other WinceMob devices have WiFi as a standard feature of the device. The 700wx will work with the Palm SDIO WiFi card fine - why wasn't it just built in rather than set to be lost or broken? PalmOS has issues with multiple radios, but vendors such as Enfora have shown that Wifi can coexist with the other radios.

    3) If I want to connect into my (or other) local wifi network to get files, sync, or other resources - I can't do it very easily via Sprint's network without running some klerky software and violating a bunch of firewall standards to let it come in from the outside. If I could run WiFi WPA then my device would be able to coexist locally without running all over the internet to connect inside.

    Yes, battery life takes a major hit with WiFi, I suspect *this* is the primary reason Palm is gunshy to include a wifi radio as they seem to be constantly worrying someone will claim a Treo is "too big" or "battery life is too short," etc. With the single SDIO slots, and the everchanging flash format Palm uses, it's nearly impossible to nail down an external card that will work - Palm needs to begin innovating again and just build it in.

    If they could even figure out a way to swap out the CDMA radio for an 802.11g radio while travelling "off the grid" the Treo would be a heck of a road phone. Regardless, WiFi has some definite uses, and Palm ought to wake up to the need - it's 2008!
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  8. 47619's Avatar
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    #28  
    There probably is not wifi in a treo because it would make the device bigger use more battery life and would be more expensive to make.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    Does not list PalmOS compatibility . . . . .
    http://www.spectec.com.tw/products_d...ptype=w1sdw823

    The problem is either Sprint or FrankenGarnet. And since the 800w on Sprint is rumored to have WiFi -- that eliminates Sprint from the conversation for the moment.
    Let me rephrase:

    The would have if they could have, but they couldn't, so they didn't.
  10. #30  
    The reasons for "no Wifi" are complex, ranging from
    • battery life issues
    • wide spread availability of 3g Networks (U.S.)
    • carrier requests
    • OS incompatibilities
    • keep costs below a specific threshold

    So why there are no PalmOS phones with Wifi varies from carrier to carrier and for production reasons as well.

    Sprint has one, count them, one Wifi device: HTC 6800, which replaced it's previous Wifi device HTC 6700. (And incidentally no: Wifi on the 700wx with the SDIO card is not a great solution and has loads of problems like memory errors. WM is "ok" at handling external add-ons like GPS and Wifi, but not great.)

    There is little doubt the HTC Touch could have had Wifi enabled on Sprint, but chances are it was canned because of a request from Sprint or HTC did it to keep costs down (no licensing fees for drivers to enable the feature). Likewise, the Moto Q q9 series could have had Wifi too.

    The Centro doesn't have Wifi for what I think are obvious reasons: keep it at $99 (or even $0 here).

    We all have our reasons for wanting/not wanting Wifi, but these points are moot when you the customer are a customer to the carriers, not to Palm. The trade offs are lower cost phone/data plans and subsidized handsets, so pick your poison.

    Even the new BlackBerrier's have Wifi or GPS, but not both because in an internal document, RIM said the "carriers did not want both features in the device".

    One thing the iPhone may have helped in was giving OEMs stronger positions to argue for more feature-rich phones, which is why I believe the 800w is being spec'd so high.

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  11. #31  
    Also the blackberries don't have touch screens, which no doubt lowers costs for other features that are included.

    One thing that really needs to change is integrated IM clients that don't fully rely on constant data connection just to function (similar to Sprint IM but hopefully more reliable, or the Danger server system for sidekicks).

    There are decent 3rd party alternatives, but if you make a call or encounter any data connection issues they do not queue your messages.
    Last edited by papped; 01/29/2008 at 03:56 PM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The reasons for "no Wifi" are complex, ranging from
    • battery life issues
    • wide spread availability of 3g Networks (U.S.)
    • carrier requests
    • OS incompatibilities
    • keep costs below a specific threshold
    So why there are no PalmOS phones with Wifi varies from carrier to carrier and for production reasons as well.

    Sprint has one, count them, one Wifi device: HTC 6800, which replaced it's previous Wifi device HTC 6700. (And incidentally no: Wifi on the 700wx with the SDIO card is not a great solution and has loads of problems like memory errors. WM is "ok" at handling external add-ons like GPS and Wifi, but not great.)

    There is little doubt the HTC Touch could have had Wifi enabled on Sprint, but chances are it was canned because of a request from Sprint or HTC did it to keep costs down (no licensing fees for drivers to enable the feature). Likewise, the Moto Q q9 series could have had Wifi too.

    The Centro doesn't have Wifi for what I think are obvious reasons: keep it at $99 (or even $0 here).

    We all have our reasons for wanting/not wanting Wifi, but these points are moot when you the customer are a customer to the carriers, not to Palm. The trade offs are lower cost phone/data plans and subsidized handsets, so pick your poison.

    Even the new BlackBerrier's have Wifi or GPS, but not both because in an internal document, RIM said the "carriers did not want both features in the device".

    One thing the iPhone may have helped in was giving OEMs stronger positions to argue for more feature-rich phones, which is why I believe the 800w is being spec'd so high.

    Malatesta, you are so much more eloquent than I.
    Last edited by gtwo; 01/29/2008 at 07:27 PM.
  13. #33  
    http://store.palm.com/sm-wi-fi-card-...i-1853744.html

    this would seem to negate the garnet/driver issue, no?
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by desperado View Post
    http://store.palm.com/sm-wi-fi-card-...i-1853744.html

    this would seem to negate the garnet/driver issue, no?
    Yep, if you dont buy a Garnet Treo, you wont have driver issues

    Surur
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Foleo wasn't gonna be a replacment for a Treo for most people though, that thing was just too massive.
    It wasnt going to replace ANY Treo... It was going to be an enhancement to Treos / smartphones. Its a "dumb" device without the smartphone to power it.
    Better known as a dumb terminal (I think)
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Yep, if you dont buy a Garnet Treo, you wont have driver issues

    Surur
    At a certain point Shadowmite had a semi-working hack for the 650 based on a Tungsten T5. So, surely it can't be "impossible"...

    http://www.shadowmite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by desperado View Post
    At a certain point Shadowmite had a semi-working hack for the 650 based on a Tungsten T5. So, surely it can't be "impossible"...

    http://www.shadowmite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11
    Apparently this was by disabling the GSM radio however, which defeats the purpose.

    Surur
  18. fishera's Avatar
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    #38  
    Wait...

    why does the Enfora WIFI sled work at the same time as the GSM radio, but a WIFI card can't...

    Shadowmite still active? I have the sled drivers, maybe those are the key!
    Aaron M. Fisher
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  19. #39  
    the WIFI sled has it's own power supply. From what I've read, it has something to do with power IIRC.
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  20. #40  
    A unlimited plan that the subscriber pays for, per month. Was that the only difference between the two, the lack of wi-fi? Im not familiar with the HTC product.p
    Sorry, old post I missed. There were several differences. Touch had double the ram, but no hardware keyboard at all and no wifi. Also the Touch was slimmer, due to the no keyboard and had a larger display.

    But considering unlimited data is like $10 a month on Sprint I don't think using EVDO is that much of a problem. Now if you want Wifi for other reasons like wireless access point, to connect to a LAN for file transfers or if you are paying Verizon data plan rates, then I could see it being more necessary.
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