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  1. #21  
    One of my jobs is as a mechanical engineer at a company that molds plastic parts. Those marks on the back are not cracks. Everyone not familiar with plastic injection molding says the same thing though when they see something like that.
    Those are called "knit lines" and they will be on any part with holes. Plastic is injected into a tool and flows around to fill the open spaces to become a part. If you want a hole in a part, there must be steel in the tool blocking that area for the hole. So, plastic flows around the steel to make holes much the same way you could think of water flowing around a tree, if a tree was growing in the middle of a river that is. When the plastic that flows around each side of some steel meets up again there will be a line formed where those two flows meet...a knit line.
    Knit lines can never be eliminated completely. Any plastic part with holes will have knit lines if you really, really look close.
    You can turn up various temperatures at the molding machine and you can run the tools hotter, etc. and that may help somewhat though.
    These clear cases show everything because they are well...clear...and they have no texture to hide knit lines. Of course sometimes certain textures can make knit lines more noticeable.
    OK, probably too much information, but I just thought I would help explain that those are not cracks.
  2. #22  
    hell, I emailed seidio about trying to return the silicone cases and never heard from them. They're major dust magnets and too flimsy or stretchy. It keeps moving around, and I constantly have to readjust it. Don't know why they won't return a PM, but it definitely weighs in on ordering from them again if they won't be responsive.

    It's a shame the cheap ebay ones seem a little odd around the keyboard compared to the Seidio ones and PDAir aluminum case.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCVP View Post
    It amazes me, no one bothers to return things on here? The case didn't fit right and it cracked as you tried to install it properly per the instructions. This has got to be at least the fourth post on here where people sound like they are keeping products they aren't completely satisfied with. There are no cracks on their pics. Take it back!
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaster View Post
    One of my jobs is as a mechanical engineer at a company that molds plastic parts. Those marks on the back are not cracks. Everyone not familiar with plastic injection molding says the same thing though when they see something like that.
    Those are called "knit lines" and they will be on any part with holes.
    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply, are you affiliated with Seidio in any way?

    Here's the problem I have about the whole situation. Ame posted her review and took pictures of what she thought were "cracks." At first glance, that's exactly what they look like. She went so far as to admit that the cracks were HER fault and happened when she installed the case.

    When I received the case, I noticed the same "cracks" and posted pictures. I also PM'd the Seido rep that posts here. I thought that since the "cracks" were identical, it must be some type of manufacturing issue. I sent Seidio comparison pictures of Ame's case and my case and told him/her that they may want to check their stock to see if the other cases have these "defects."

    Seidio seemed to get a little defensive, told me that those were "tooling marks" and then said that they didn't need to check their stock (implying that they already know about the problem.) In fact, I checked the inside of the rubberized case and saw the same lines, so it obviously is a manufacturing issue.

    Now, the part that disturbs me is that Seidio clearly knew that these lines or cracks were part of the manufacturing process and yet they said NOTHING when Ame WRONGLY ADMITTED THE CRACKS WERE HER FAULT. She posted her review in several forums and everyone reading her review thought (like I did) that she had cracked the case in that area. Seidio should have immediately taken responsibility and pointed out that those were not cracks and were "tooling marks" like they told me. Their explanation was that they are waiting for Ame's comparison review on the Palm AirCase before they respond.

    Now that makes absolutely no sense. What happens if Ame never posts a review on the AirCase? A different vendor has absolutely nothing to do with the issues Ame raised with Seidio's case and any review on a different vendor's product is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the issues that Ame raised with Seidio's case.

    The way Seidio handled this (or more correctly - failed to handle it) is the first "black mark" against them from my point of view. Up to this point, their customer service has been excellent so I'm a little surprised about all of this.

    From what I've read, they seem to have a good reputation and produce quality products for the most part but when problems arise, they need to step up to the plate and take responsibility when things are less than perfect.

    Letting a customer take the blame for a manufacturing "defect" is totally irresponsible and completely unacceptable!

    I hope Seidio realizes this and does the right thing.
  4. #24  
    Chimmer, I don't think gaster is with Seidio, but explained the issue well. I'm just trying to think of products that have the same issue and can't think of any. Maybe gaster knows of some that we can compare? Of course now that I was about to post this, how is it that the Sprint and Palm products don't have this issue? I was thinking it depends on the plastic being used if it was a manufacturing issue and I don't think that is the case on this case.

    The other issue is how these marks aren't shown on the product pics. If they are supposed to be there and are on all of the products then it should be shown on the misleading pics. My father was very surprised by the way Seidio is handling this, he like others here have always heard they had good customer service.

    The issue I have is being on here pushing products and not standing behind them. Someone just got jumped on for pushing their product in a possibly misleading way, still not sure on that one. I don't see why Seidio is allowed to be here and others are not?

    Seidio needs to read these posts and remedy the situation either take returns, exchange, refund, whatever and not get defensive about it.
  5. #25  
    well I'm here, and I resell proclip stuff. Granted it's nowhere close to being an employee of the manufacturer, and I really don't actively sell for them. The non-disclosed guy should actually just say, "hey, we have a good deal going for the Centro on my website." But to be deceptive about it like "hey, I just found this deal." Nothing wrong with promoting something you sell, but at least be open about it.

    In this case with Seidio, if those tooling marks are part of the normal process and on every case, then they should be visible in their pics advertising the product. If they are conveniently missing, then that is being deceptive and Seidio should either a) offer them a discount if they wish to keep it or b) offer them a full refund including shipping as well as pay for return shipping as it is false advertisement since their pics were either doctored or they found ones where those lines weren't so visible.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by BCVP View Post
    I was thinking it depends on the plastic being used if it was a manufacturing issue and I don't think that is the case on this case.
    To clarify, when I said it was a "manufacturing issue" what I meant was that the "defect" was caused by some type of manufacturing process -"tooling marks" would be an example of that.

    Seidio is obviously using the same "mold" for the clear and rubberized case. From a business standpoint, that may make sense initially but when you manufacture a clear case, any defect, blemish, tooling mark is going to be much easier to see than on a solid color case. For that reason, extra care should be taken when producing clear cases so that these "defects" are minimized as much as possible. That didn't happen with Seidio's clear case.

    I have the Palm AirCase and I don't see these "tooling marks" that gaster says should be there. If they are there in the AirCase, they aren't noticeable like the ones in Seidio's case. I'm not doubting gaster's explanation, it makes perfect sense, but as I've pointed out, why let a customer accept "blame" for the tooling marks? Ame said she cracked hers and Seidio remained silent and let her accept responsibility for it in a public forum. Is that some type of "passive" damage control??

    Anyway, the cat's out of the bag so it will be interesting to see how Seidio handles this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCVP View Post
    Seidio needs to read these posts and remedy the situation either take returns, exchange, refund, whatever and not get defensive about it.
    Oh I'm sure they are reading each and every post but their silence speaks volumes!

    Anyway, like I said before, I love their rubberized case, no noticeable defects show up in it and it's my favorite case to date. I rated it 5 out of 5 stars and will continue to recommend it to people. Seido clearly has room for improvement in some aspects of their customer service so I hope they take all this "feedback" in a positive way and put it to good use!
  7. #27  
    I just posted pics of a crystal case in the accessory thread that I'm hoping to get in. They had close up pics of the case, and I wasn't able to see any "tooling marks". Never gave that issue a second thought, now of course it'll be the first thing I look for.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  8. #28  
    No, I don't work with or for Seidio. I work for a small contract manufacturer and have for about 9 years. Our office is by Chicago and we have a factory in southern China, about one hour from Hong Kong. I have never had any contact with Seidio. The reason I am on these forums is that I just bought a 755p recently and then discovered these forums. I did not know much about Treos, but since I know molding I thought I'd try to give back and explain one thing I do know well.

    The marks are not tooling marks in that there are no scratches or visible problems with the tools. Seidio can open the tools and check them, but there will be no problems.

    This just has to do with how the plastic flows around steel in the tool and then the separate flows of plastic come meet again to form these knit lines. Any part with holes can potentially have knit lines. If the manufacturer for Seidio ran the tools hotter and/or turned up the temperatures on the molding machines that may help and the knit lines may go away in terms of what you and I can see. Plastic molding is somewhat of an art form, but the physics cannot be changed. The plastic must flow around steel...steel which blocks an area to be a hole....and this plastic will meet up again on the other side.

    Knit lines can be weak areas and a part under a lot of stress can crack along a knit line. These cases should be strong enough to take any amount of normal abuse a phone should see though. Or at least I hope so.

    Here is another piece of molding trivia. If you understand how knit lines come about you can follow the lines and find the gate, which is where the plastic first gets injected into the mold. The gates are pretty easy to find anyway because there will be some flash, etc., but the knit lines can help show gates too.

    If other clear cases do not show these knit lines it just means that the molder did a better job of molding. They probably spent more time trying different settings to get molded parts that at least to the eye did not have these knit lines.

    Yes, you can sometimes see knit lines in other plastic parts, but it depends on several things. Sometimes darker colors show knit lines more than lighter colors, but it can vary. Also texture can either help hide knit lines or make them look worse. I have seen both situations. And don't forget that if a part is painted then that hides everything and you will never see these lines.

    Maybe my previous post was a bit misunderstood. Overall I don't blame people for getting upset. I see that clear cases from other companies on Ebay are much cheaper than Seidio. Seidio is supposed to be a high end brand and so people expect near perfection from them. These knit lines do look bad and are probably acceptable if a person is buying $5 clear cases on ebay, but when you spend $25 or $30 then the product quality should be better. I think Seidio's plastic molder should be able to do better with some molding process changes but that doesn't help anyone who spent money already.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    hell, I emailed seidio about trying to return the silicone cases and never heard from them. They're major dust magnets and too flimsy or stretchy. It keeps moving around, and I constantly have to readjust it. Don't know why they won't return a PM, but it definitely weighs in on ordering from them again if they won't be responsive.

    It's a shame the cheap ebay ones seem a little odd around the keyboard compared to the Seidio ones and PDAir aluminum case.
    Crogs,

    I apologize that I haven't been on here much recently. I am actually on vacation with my family for Christmas.

    As far as PMs, that's my fault. I very frequently check my email (forum@seidio.com), but forget to check my PMs, especially when I'm out of the office.

    Please email me your contact and order information and I'll make sure you're taken care of.

    Thanks,
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimmer View Post
    Ame said she cracked hers and Seidio remained silent and let her accept responsibility for it in a public forum. Is that some type of "passive" damage control??
    I am out of the office until after Christmas, but I will get with my engineers after I return.

    Thanks,
  11. #31  
    Happy Holidays and have a great vaca! We I mean I look forward to see Seidio's response when you return.
  12. ame
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       #32  
    Hey all, back in town as of 20 min ago.

    After using this case for one week, I am removing it tonight, hopefully fairly easily. I am going to pick up the aircase at work on MOnday (it got delivered there) and put it on then.

    Here is my "one week later review":

    While it's "served it's purpose" for the last week it's not something I would say is worth $25 + shipping. The things discussed above, cracks, etc., do not come close to saying "worth the price".

    The fact that the cutouts are not straight and properly lined up really really annoys me, and when I hold the phone condensation builds where my hand held the phone between the case and the phone and that is unacceptable. That may be bec I am not totally convinced they nailed the fit on this particular case, their mold isn't good or something.

    But again, the crack thing...that just irks me to no end and now that I know Chimmer has the same issue...comon' now.
  13. #33  
    Hey Seidio guy (since I don't know your name) Will never fault anyone for spending time with family around the holidays. Will send you an email. Didn't know you had the email adr.

    as far as this case is concerned. I just received the cheapo black crystal case from ebay. Stupid me for not realizing it didn't come with the clip so it's nice and slippery in the pocket. But anyway...the cutouts on it are perfect and it only costs $10. I'm sure the cost differential to produce the ebay one as opposed to the Seidio one is a bit similar. So one would expect you're paying for the name and the quality that goes along with it. The fact that they got through QC with the cutout issues is a bit disturbing. I lost $10 buying that body glove knockoff case, but I expect to be taking a chance on something like that. Just like with the silicone (yes we paid half price). Since it normally is at a bit of a premium over other bargain skins, I expect a little more. An anti-static coating or something to prevent dust build up. I remember that from a boxwave skin I had. No issues with dust build up. And for as thin as it is, I would hope the silicone to be of a higher density so it wasn't as flimsy. I do like that it's thinner than standard silicone cases, but I hoped it would've been a little stiffer.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  14. ame
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       #34  
    I just removed the Seidio case. It took about 5 minutes of grabbing but came off without shattering.

    Tomorrow I will try out the Palm Aircase.
  15. #35  
    Just got my sedio holster/case combo...let me say i'm pretty satisfied. However, having paid $50 for the centro after rebate, the plaster encasing my centro costs as much as the centro itself.

    Palm should bring in seidio managment to run their treo business...lol.
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    #36  
    I just got my Seideo clear case and holster combo today. While I feel the price was a bit high, the case fits well and it also fits the holster perfectly.

    My case does have identical marks to the ones previously posted, but I don't see them being any kind of issue. They are barely noticeable even under scrutiny.

    I agree that the hole/cutout placement is sub-par, but it doesn't bother my use of the phone in any way. I haven't had any problems using the red and green buttons as Ame did.

    On the holster, it looks fine but I think it should enclose the phone more on the bottom. The two bottom grab points should have been connected to form a solid bar across the back of the device. I can foresee them catching on things such as jackets, bag straps, or other peoples clothes in tight spaces and crowds.
    I tested pulling the phone loose from the holster on my belt, and it took quite a strong noticeable pull to break it free. This is due to the rubber insert on the holster, which is a necessary addition due to the slickness of the case.

    Overall I give this case a 3.5 out of 5 and the holster a 4.5 out of 5.

    That is a qualified buy recommendation.

    If this combo was priced at $30 it would be a must have.
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