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  1. gearhead's Avatar
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    #21  
    I have Java on my 700p and decided to go ahead and try installing the new beta. I was able to use Opera to download the Java midlet and install it, but once it gets to the EULA screen, my phone locks up solid.

    I really hope Google comes up with a Treo compatible version soon. That would make Google maps a truly killer app.
  2. theyams's Avatar
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       #22  
    Thanks for all of the replies. Looks like many people are confused by the error that Google has on their wireless site for Treo 700p's (says you can get version 2.0 for the Treo 700p, but you can't) by the number of comments on the google BB's. And here is a more definitive reply from "Google Mobile Guide"

    http://groups.google.com/group/Googl...d0240cdfc74d06


    Google Mobile Guide Google employee
    From: Google Mobile Guide
    Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:48:28 -0800 (PST)
    Local: Wed, Nov 28 2007 12:48 pm

    Hi folks,

    GMM 2.0 with My Location (beta) features works with the following:

    * BlackBerry devices
    * Some recent Motorola devices
    * Some recent Sony Ericsson devices
    * Many Windows Mobile devices
    * Nokia Series 60 3rd Edition devices

    At this time, it is not available for Palm Treo devices or the Apple
    iPhone.


    Thanks,
    Mobile Guide
  3. #23  
    I just read elsewhere it doesn't work with CDMA phones. If that is true, then those of us on Sprint may never get it.
  4. ssrjazz's Avatar
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    #24  
    aGPS works on GSM -and- CDMA networks. It's part of a federally mandated directive to improve e911 services on cell phone networks.

    http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts...ss911srvc.html
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ssrjazz View Post
    aGPS works on GSM -and- CDMA networks. It's part of a federally mandated directive to improve e911 services on cell phone networks.

    http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts...ss911srvc.html
    That's quite dandy and all but Google Maps/My Location uses cellular triangulation, not any form of aGPS/GPS.

    Just watch the Google video which explains it--it's quite clear.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    That's quite dandy and all but Google Maps/My Location uses cellular triangulation, not any form of aGPS/GPS.

    Just watch the Google video which explains it--it's quite clear.
    Yea, and the video is on a TREO.
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickMG View Post
    Yea, and the video is on a TREO.
    Little known fact #1: It's actually on a BlackBerry in the video

    Little known fact #2: "My Location" actually works on a WM6 Treo 750

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  8. #28  
    If enough Palm users make it known to google that we're interested, I am sure google will make it happen.

    If not a petition, maybe forum members can use this very thread to cast their vote.

    I'll be the first to say - Hey Google, make this work with the Palm Treo line of devices.

    Treocentral members, will you join me?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Little known fact #1: It's actually on a BlackBerry in the video
    I'll be a monkey's uncle. It sure is. I watched that entire video the first time and was thinking how great it was they used a Treo.
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  10. ssrjazz's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    That's quite dandy and all but Google Maps/My Location uses cellular triangulation, not any form of aGPS/GPS.
    I think you misunderstand just how aGPS works. It is, in fact, one of the main functions of assisted-GPS.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

    The Assistance Server can locate the phone roughly by what cell site it is connected to on the cellular network.
    This is what's known as a "Phase 2" Wireless e911 call. What you are thinking of may be a "Phase 1" call where the tower only knows which 'sector' your signal is coming from. Think of a cell tower as being the center of a circle which represents the reach of that 'cell'. Divide that up into a 3 slice pie. Each 'slice' is a 'sector.' In a phase 1 call, it knows you're in that general slice of pie, but can't get more accurate than that. With aGPS (Phase 2), you can get quite a bit more accurate - but there is still a fair margin of error.


    All sprint phones (including treos) are now have aGPS. Again.. part of the whole federally mandated initiative mentioned previously. The phone does not HAVE to have a full GPS receiver in it for it to be able to triangulate itself based on the towers. This is one of -many- functions that aGPS can provide.
    Last edited by ssrjazz; 11/30/2007 at 11:31 AM.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ssrjazz View Post
    I think you misunderstand just how aGPS works. It is, in fact, one of the main functions of assisted-GPS.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
    Listen, I've written articles on aGPS--I know how it works and I don't need a wiki to tell me.

    I can tell you a couple of things:
    • You don't how aGPS works. The cell tower location feature is meant to tell the phone which satellites to look at in order to reduce signal and location acquisition time.
    • This is not aGPS. There is no evidence it is aGPS. It is cell tower triangulation which is a system that pre-dated aGPS, which is also why the accuracy is so poor. aGPS can literally pinpoint your location within feet, not hundreds or thousands of feet. aGPS by definition at some point uses satellites--this is not doing that.


    I mean what you are saying is this: they are triangulating your position based on tower location and signal strength, they are not using satellites but they are using aGPS. That makes no sense. On GSM devices, it's much easier to get cell tower ID information on the go. Look at programs like PhoneAlarm which can do "profile switching on location", which means that the program is pulling cell tower ID information and using for the program. CDMA cannot do that (or has not be shown to).

    I think this is a CDMA/GSM issue. Are there any phones on Sprint that can do it? Just about every device on Sprint can do aGPS (Razr's, etc)--so that is not an excuse for those phones. Anyone have any confirmation on that?

    Believe what you want but you are in the minority out there.

    edit: from ZDNet

    The latest version of GMM is able to locate users — albeit with less accuracy — through triangulation. Triangulation calculates a user's location by measuring the distance of the mobile handset from nearby basestations.
    ...
    Triangulation is already used by operators to track mobile phones, but Google's decision to embrace the technology brings the same information into the hands of users.
    Can this be any clearer?
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/30/2007 at 01:47 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  12. #32  
    In other words, aGPS requires a real GPS chip, acquiring signals from real satellites, not getting information back from the towers about where it 'might' be based on triangulation.

    Few phones have real GPS built into them. aGPS is just to aquire a signal faster, I guess really so that one can save battery life by having the GPS off when you don't need it. Otherwise, one wouldn't need aGPS as SirfStar III GPS can re-acquire in seconds if it's not been off very long.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    In other words, aGPS requires a real GPS chip, acquiring signals from real satellites, not getting information back from the towers about where it 'might' be based on triangulation.

    Few phones have real GPS built into them. aGPS is just to aquire a signal faster, I guess really so that one can save battery life by having the GPS off when you don't need it. Otherwise, one wouldn't need aGPS as SirfStar III GPS can re-acquire in seconds if it's not been off very long.
    Right.

    Part of it is also issues of control: so all Sprint phones have aGPS and can pull satellite data in conjunction with Tower information--that's how TeleNav works. But companies like AT&T and Verizon tend to lock down their systems so only they can offer Mapping services for profit (Verizon famously did this with the 8830).

    When you do a "cold start" with SirfIII, it has no idea where it is in the world, so it hits up every satellite it can see, pulling down as much data as it can and computes it for location. In an aGPS system, the towers "locate" you and narrow down which satellites are relevant as well as assisting in computation; aGPS can also operate in "standalone" mode with no tower assistance at all e.g. the HTC Kaiser is this sort of device.

    Triangulation is just an old system based on signal strength but it is easier to do with GSM than CDMA, which is why we are seeing no Sprint and no Verizon phones (that I'm aware of) that can use "My Location"--if this was aGPS, then a ton of non-WM, non-POS Sprint phones would have zero issues. But that's not what we see.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Listen, I've written articles on aGPS--I know how it works and I don't need a wiki to tell me.

    I can tell you a couple of things:
    [Can this be any clearer?
    You might not need a wiki to tell you that, but you could use it to tell you about this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manners

    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickMG View Post
    You might not need a wiki to tell you that, but you could use it to tell you about this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manners

    Thanks!

    Found one for you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MYOB


    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  16. #36  
    It's my business when you're rude on this board, as much my business as the person you're being rude to, as it contributes to the overall enjoyment of reading these posts. He nicely said he thought you misunderstood something and you fired back at him at how smart you really are. It's okay, you've shown everyone who read it just how smart you are.
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickMG View Post
    It's okay, you've shown everyone who read it just how smart you are.
    Either
    • report my posts to a moderator
    • put me on your Ignore list (in fact I'm adding you)

    or
    • let it go

    This thread is not about me but about Google Maps and "My Location".

    ...moving on.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I think this is a CDMA/GSM issue. Are there any phones on Sprint that can do it? Just about every device on Sprint can do aGPS (Razr's, etc)--so that is not an excuse for those phones. Anyone have any confirmation on that?
    Boost Mobile and Sprint use an application that is one part cell ID, one part triangulation, and another part aGPS. Its called Buddy Beacon. It should have been something available to all carriers, and all phones, but its not coming as far as my contact at CES told me.

    As for taking the TreoSpot code and massaging it, I wish Google wood. Its developer would do well to have someone such as Google recognize the value of his code.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
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