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  1.    #1  
    I currently have Kinoma on my 700P with Sprint because I heard it was a great way to stream media. Unfortunately I find that an enormous amount of the files I d/l or try to watch give me the "Insufficient Bandwidth" error and don't play properly. I also was largely unimpressed with the Kinoma Media Guide because it's a bunch of random TV and Media streams I've never heard of and wouldn't use.

    I know that there are other players out there, is there anything that will suit my needs better? I'd definitely get rid of Kinoma for something else if it was better and would work better.

    Is there anything I can do to fix the "Insufficient Bandwidth" error or is it just stuck. It seems that anything I try to d/l that's over 2.5M doesn't play right.

    Also, I have downloaded several videos and a few of them showed up in my "Pics & Videos" folder, others though did not. I couldn't find them anywhere, even when I hit "All Photos & Videos." Eventually I found that if I opened Kinoma and went to Video, there they were.... why does this happen?

    Thanks for any help, I really know very little about this stuff and am trying to get the most out of my Treo that I can.
  2. #2  
    I only get "Insufficient Bandwidth" when I am in low evdo spots.


  3. #3  
    I get it quite a bit, and more lately it seems. I don't know if the quality of videos being posted to YouTube is higher or my area just has poor coverage. I tend to let the video completely download, and then watch it - I don't get buffering that way.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I get it quite a bit, and more lately it seems. I don't know if the quality of videos being posted to YouTube is higher or my area just has poor coverage. I tend to let the video completely download, and then watch it - I don't get buffering that way.
    How do you do that? when I set to download to card, it tries to play while it's downloading (effectively behaving like insuficient bandwidth).
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    How do you do that? when I set to download to card, it tries to play while it's downloading (effectively behaving like insuficient bandwidth).
    Sorry, I wasn't clear enough - youtube doesn't allow you to save to card. When the video starts to play, I hit "pause" and let the video completely download while the app is open, then I hit "play".
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  6. #6  
    I've said it before and I'll say it again....if you're interested in video and not audio podcasts, Kinoma is the most overhyped app I've ever seen for the Palm OS. It's overpriced, and I'm convinced if they ever gave you a trial period, almost nobody who intends to look at any online video files would buy it. All these people who rave about it and love the Kinoma Media guide must be smoking. A very high percentage of things found on the media guide won't even play. Even when you find a WMV file that can stream, the player can't keep up with the bandwidth. It won't even play downloaded WMV files. Why can TCPMP play mpeg files with no problem, but Kinoma can't handle the other files? Yes, you can link to YouTube videos and play them, but I need way more for my money than that.
  7. #7  
    To each his own, I guess.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  8. #8  
    People have to realize the streaming limitation is not Kinoma. it is either a slow connection or a large file. Cell phone broadband is about 1/10 the speed of dsl and about 1/20 the speed of cable.

    I mainly use Kinoma for streaming TV with Orb. Other than that, I don't use it much but it is a very nice and well designed program. Also the support is very good.
  9. #9  
    I have noticed that streaming works better in some EvDO areas than others, and it's not necessarily related to the signal strength. That said, it seems that around 220 kbps setting is the best I can do without the "insufficient bandwidth" message in my area, but I still get it sometimes.

    My cable modem gives me about a 450kbps upload speed. When I had orb set to a 384kbps upstream, I was getting more insufficient bandwidth errors than I do now with the server side set to 450kbps. Now I can set my player side (treo) to 256kbps download and the video gets about the same amount of insufficient bandwidth errors as it did at 220kbps (and my server at 384kbps).

    FYI, when I use PDAnet and run speed tests though speakeasy.net on my laptop, I typically see 700-760 kbps down and 114-128kbps up speeds. So it seems to me that Kinoma does have its own limitations on processing the streams.

    Sprint Pre & Motorola H300 BT headset

    Dead devices: Palm Pro; Palm III; Treo 600, 650, 700p, 755p; Centro
    Yes, I finally updated my tagline!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    People have to realize the streaming limitation is not Kinoma. it is either a slow connection or a large file. Cell phone broadband is about 1/10 the speed of dsl and about 1/20 the speed of cable.

    I mainly use Kinoma for streaming TV with Orb. Other than that, I don't use it much but it is a very nice and well designed program. Also the support is very good.
    I know there are lots of Kinoma supporters, but the limitations are not due to connection problems, or at least not alone. The fact is that most WMV videos placed on the web are either not WMV9, which is the only one that's licensed and can be viewed using Kinoma, or it's "too big" which is almost every video file placed on the web. Videos placed on the web are geared toward being viewed on PC's. Kinoma CANNOT view most of these videos and provide sound at the same time. No question support is great, personalized, and takes place on this forum....but that doesn't change the basic problem with the application....you simply cannot view most online WMV files with Kinoma. If you want to buy their other software, I think it's called Director, you get to be able to convert the files so you can see them. Sorry, not worth it to me.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    The fact is that most WMV videos placed on the web are either not WMV9...
    Most WMV files you'll find use WMV9. Remember, WMV9 is over 5 years old, and video on the web didn't become mainstream until well after it was introduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Videos placed on the web are geared toward being viewed on PC's. Kinoma CANNOT view most of these videos and provide sound at the same time.
    Hopefully it makes sense why a file or stream designed to be viewed on a PC with a broadband connection might not play well on a battery-powered device with a 312 Mhz processor and no hardware video acceleration. But that has nothing to do with Kinoma Player specifically, of course.

    Let me put it another way: If you ever find a WMV file or stream that plays on a Windows Mobile device but doesn't with Kinoma Player, that would concern me.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    If you want to buy their other software, I think it's called Director, you get to be able to convert the files so you can see them. Sorry, not worth it to me.
    It is to a lot of people though, which is why we also make Kinoma Producer (which we are able to provide a free trial for).

    Generally, people sophisticated enough to put video on their phone understand that "big" video needs to be transcoded in order to optimize it for their device. It's really not that hard, and doesn't take very long.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  12. #12  
    Charles, it makes perfect sense. I just wish that I had known that in advance, because that was the major thing I needed from Kinoma and in all the hubbub about the new version, nobody really talked about the limitations. Saying it will play whatever will play on a Windows Mobile isn't really the point. What I need is a player that will allow me to watch a WMV video that's posted on the web without having to transcode it. You imply that can't be done, and you know more about that than me....but people should be aware of the limitations, especially since there is no free trial for Kinoma. That's only fair.
  13. #13  
    However, davidra, you state that it's a "problem with the application", and that "most WMV are not WMV9".... it seems pretty clear that it's a limitation of the hardware, not Kinoma. It's obvious that you are unhappy that it didn't meet your needs, but your arguments would be stronger if you stuck to a more factual basis.

    You mention the strengths of TCPMP, which I love as well, but the lack of streaming is a problem. The ability to stream youtube, tinytube, etc. is simply a huge plus for many.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  14. #14  
    No question, streaming with MPEGs would be excellent....but I can download almost any MPEG directly to the device and play it with TCPMP. That is not true with almost all web-based WMV files. And the limitation of Kinoma regarding playing WMV files other than WMV9 is a licensure problem, not a hardware problem.
    Last edited by davidra; 11/19/2007 at 03:15 PM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by deadhook View Post
    ...I find that an enormous amount of the files I d/l or try to watch give me the "Insufficient Bandwidth" error and don't play properly.
    I just left you a more detailed response in another forum that you posted to, and I'm happy to discuss it more in either place.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  16. #16  
    David,

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I just wish that I had known that in advance, because that was the major thing I needed from Kinoma and in all the hubbub about the new version, nobody really talked about the limitations.
    FWIW, we try really hard to do this. Here's the first of a few bullet-points from the Content Compatibility section of the manual:

    Your handheld device differs from a personal computer in many ways. Those differences impact the digital media you can play on your handheld. For example:

    • A typical notebook computer has 5 to 10 times the computing power of a typical handheld, which means a handheld cannot achieve the same video frame rates or frame sizes as a computer. And a typical desktop computer has 10 to 20 times the computing power of a handheld.

    We'd appreciate suggestions on how to do it better. We definitely don't want anyone to think that their Centro is going to play hi-def anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    ...but people should be aware of the limitations, especially since there is no free trial for Kinoma.
    Unfortunately we can't do a trial because several of the technologies licensed for the product prevent try-before-you-buy marketing. We wish that we could!

    If you feel like we misrepresented Kinoma Player, let us know. No sale is worth an unhappy customer.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    ...but I can download almost any MPEG directly to the device and play it with TCPMP. That is not true with almost all web-based WMV files.
    That's absolutely correct. MPEG-1 is a few generations behind WMV, and those relatively simple files are relatively easy to decode by comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And the limitation of Kinoma regarding playing WMV files other than WMV9 is a licensure problem, not a hardware problem.
    As far as I know, it's not possible to license pre-WMV9 support for mobile devices.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    Generally, people sophisticated enough to put video on their phone understand that "big" video needs to be transcoded in order to optimize it for their device. It's really not that hard, and doesn't take very long.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Charles,

    Aren't Orb streams optimized for Kinoma? Or can they be made better so that Orb can process them more efficiently, thereby eliminating (or reducing) the "Insufficient" messages?

    Sprint Pre & Motorola H300 BT headset

    Dead devices: Palm Pro; Palm III; Treo 600, 650, 700p, 755p; Centro
    Yes, I finally updated my tagline!
  18. Leke's Avatar
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    #18  
    Hey they have a new update to Kinoma 4, it includes a search field for Kinoma Media Guide, for radio stations, google, and youtube. So you dont have to manually insert the url for youtube videos. After using this just now, I've have none of that insuffient error.
    Last edited by Leke; 11/21/2007 at 02:03 PM.
  19. #19  
    I find the fact that Kinoma cannot play in the background very limiting. I also find that MANY of the podcasts, etc. are very outdated.
  20. #20  
    I even get this problem when streaming over bluetooth..
    too bad coreplayer/tcpmp can't stream yet..
    Can I setup my own local server that would reencode my video files on the fly or from the server?
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