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  1. tonygoes's Avatar
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       #1  
    My first Treo was a Handspring Treo 600, then I moved to the 650 as soon as it was released. I kept the 650 until now - none of the newer phones seemed to have enough to make it worth upgrading. I really like the 650 - my biggest problems were errant applications crashing the phone and the lack of multitasking. I really like the PalmOS interface, but after 3 years of NO progress on either of these issues, I was ready to move to something else.

    But for various reasons, I wasn't satisfied with the iPhone, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, or Symbian phones. And after 3 years of pretty heavy use (abuse), my 650 is literally falling apart. There are several cracks in the case, and it's missing a bunch of screws. I could have gotten a new housing, but with the Centro coming out, I figured I'd give it a try. I bought one a couple of days ago, and I really like it. Data is much faster thanks to EVDO, there are very few resets, and it generally is just good at what it's designed to do.

    I still have my gripes about single tasking and the ability of bad apps to crash the phone, and in two years, I don't know that I would still go with another Garnet phone. In that sense, the Centro alone won't save Palm in my eyes, and probably others. But could it be enough to keep dissatisfied Treo users from leaving the platform until they can release a Linux based OS?
  2. ~Q~
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    #2  
    The Centro is just a stop-gap device. Palm releasing the Centro just lets us know they are still alive, but it isn't going to save them. They are going to need to step up in a hurry and put out a new flagship device or they are going to loose alot of people to the iphone and RIM. Right now, the Blackberry Curve can easily go head to head with a Treo and would arguably come out ahead in many areas.

    Palm is hanging on by a tread. If it weren't for the Window Mobile Treos they would certainly be dead or dieing.

    Dont' get me wrong. I love my Treo 755P and wouldn't trade for anything out there. However, I certainly am not going to roll into another Treo in a year if all I'm getting is a slightly upgraded version of what I already have.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  3. #3  
    I am just as disappointed with sprint as I am with palm. I am dying to get rid of my beaten up old 650 but sprint offers nothing I'm interested in. The 755 is not an option.

    I want to switch to a blackberry curve or possibly a nokia smartphone with keyboard but neither is carried.
  4. #4  
    The Centro might accomplish what the Treo 680 was supposed to do: appeal to the mass market. But IMO it may be too little, too late for the Centro to have much impact.

    As Q said, Palm needs a new flagship device. And that flagship device must have NO compromises with regard to feature set. Skimping on bluetooth, memory, camera, etc., not including WiFi, ad nauseam--basically not staying ahead of the competition--will be the death of Palm.

    There is a balancing act that Palm has yet to learn. Handspring had the formula, but it was lost when Palm took over. The balance is this:

    If you are going to compete in a marketplace, you either have to come out with an OUTSTANDING product that totally blows away the competition in form, function, and sex appeal...or you come out with an OKAY product and put tremendous marketing behind it. Ideally, you do BOTH (outstanding product AND tremendous marketing). Take no prisoners.

    Back in the early days, Handspring took the former approach: OUTSTANDING product. Neither Handspring nor Palm ever did much advertising (nothing truly memorable anyway), but they had products that stood out and filled a category that was sorely lacking decent products. That is no longer the case. This market is crowded, and competition is strong.

    Without the capital to sink into outstanding marketing (i.e. Apple's approach), Palm will have to get innovative and provide something that will stand out on its own merit.

    Innovation, Quality, Correct Feature set, Correct Implementation, Ease of Use, and a Decent Price will save Palm. Anything short of that is a waste of Palm's money and an even bigger waste of consumers' money.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget View Post
    The Centro might accomplish what the Treo 680 was supposed to do: appeal to the mass market. But IMO it may be too little, too late for the Centro to have much impact.

    As Q said, Palm needs a new flagship device. And that flagship device must have NO compromises with regard to feature set. Skimping on bluetooth, memory, camera, etc., not including WiFi, ad nauseam--basically not staying ahead of the competition--will be the death of Palm.

    There is a balancing act that Palm has yet to learn. Handspring had the formula, but it was lost when Palm took over. The balance is this:

    If you are going to compete in a marketplace, you either have to come out with an OUTSTANDING product that totally blows away the competition in form, function, and sex appeal...or you come out with an OKAY product and put tremendous marketing behind it. Ideally, you do BOTH (outstanding product AND tremendous marketing). Take no prisoners.

    Back in the early days, Handspring took the former approach: OUTSTANDING product. Neither Handspring nor Palm ever did much advertising (nothing truly memorable anyway), but they had products that stood out and filled a category that was sorely lacking decent products. That is no longer the case. This market is crowded, and competition is strong.

    Without the capital to sink into outstanding marketing (i.e. Apple's approach), Palm will have to get innovative and provide something that will stand out on its own merit.

    Innovation, Quality, Correct Feature set, Correct Implementation, Ease of Use, and a Decent Price will save Palm. Anything short of that is a waste of Palm's money and an even bigger waste of consumers' money.


    Yep. I can agree with that, insp_gadget. Unfortunately, I think we`re going to have to sit and watch a year to a year and a half go by before such a flagship from palm appears, and usually what palm views to be a flagship is often just an also-ran type product. I so badly would like to buy a smartphone from a different company which is willing to step up to do what handspring used to do, and what palm refuses to do. Right now, that looks to be rimm, nokia, HTC, and most likely apple.
    If only sprint would carry them alongside the palms or replace their treos altogether with them. THAT might wake palm up.

    Palm is multislacking.
    Last edited by treobk214; 10/18/2007 at 02:01 PM.
  6. #6  
    I don't think so. The market that Palm is going for with the centro is not going to like the Centro. Sure what the device does is more than the standard feature phone but alot of the younger teens don't go for that, they go for what ever looks the coolest. Its like the 5 gum, I've read how the makers of that gum was going for the teens -mid 20's crowd and they wanted to make agum pack that you wouldn't mind having laid next to your ipod or razr (and why it comes out in like a cigarette carton). Hey, it worked though as I had to get it -_-'
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupeValenz View Post
    I don't think so. The market that Palm is going for with the centro is not going to like the Centro. Sure what the device does is more than the standard feature phone but alot of the younger teens don't go for that, they go for what ever looks the coolest. Its like the 5 gum, I've read how the makers of that gum was going for the teens -mid 20's crowd and they wanted to make agum pack that you wouldn't mind having laid next to your ipod or razr (and why it comes out in like a cigarette carton). Hey, it worked though as I had to get it -_-'
    Ding! Ding! Ding! Totally agree. As I said above, sex appeal has to be part of the equation...and that matters most to the youth market that Palm is targeting with the Centro.

    That, and all the other factors I mentioned, need to be there for Palm's future flagship product...which isn't going to appeal to the youth market, but will be Palm's savior, if they get the formula right.

    Right now, I don't believe the combination of price/performance/form can be met for TRUE smart phones in order to appeal to the masses the way thin, sexy feature phones do. The technology just isn't pervasive enough yet to make it affordable enough to get it into enough hands. When people are used to getting a phone free with their plan or paying less than $50 US, for a feature phone, a smart phone just can't compete...regardless of the power it has.

    That's where the marketing has to make up the difference. Right now, most people don't know why they would want a smart phone. They don't know what a smart phone can do for them...or they think a smart phone is too complicated and lacks sex appeal. In many respects they would be right.

    The company that develops and brings to market a phone that has the sex appeal of the iPhone, the power of Windows Mobile, and the ease-of-use of PalmOS...with a simple, but attractive interface, that can be customized, will have a real winner.

    Until then, we can dream.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  8. hkklife's Avatar
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    #8  
    A UI straight out of 1996? No A2DP or 3.5mm headphone jack? Pathetic battery life? No Vista Desktop compatibility out of the box? No "real" YouTube? Hard to load apps/media onto the device? No centralized online store with iTunes-like desktop PC integration? Smoke & mirrors pricing (pricey data plans, mail in rebates that will never materialize etc)? The Centro is NOT going to get much (if any) of the "youth market". Sorry guys, but a lot of the stuff that us die-hard POS users take for granted is utterly going to fly right over the heads of the kiddies Palm is targeting with the Centro. And I can see those same kiddies utilizing the return policy because they're totally confused by the process of downloading & Hotsyncing apps to their Centro.

    Besides, the Centro's styling is still quite bland & contrived-looking in comparison to what the kids & hipsters fawn over these days. The utter lack of a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack on the Centro is absolutely unforgivable in my book. That is STONE AGE tech that would cost NOTHING to implement on the Centro.

    Now, where I do think the Centro will go over exceedingly well is for current POS users (esp. 650 or 600 users) wanting a stopgap device and/or buying a second Palm smartphone for their kids or spouse. Look at all of the sublte OS tweaks Palm's made to the Centro as well as the reduction of the NVFS lag. Those sorts of things are appreciated by veteran users, not teeny boppers!

    There's a huge difference between a long-time POS user buying one for his daughter under a family plan vs. a 20-something or college kid who is on their own forking over their own $ for a Centro + monthly charges. When it's their own $ on the line, to 99% of the kids out there, a Centro can never hope to comete with a free w/ contract pink RAZR.
  9. #9  
    If the Centro gets great advertising with a good hook to it, then Palm will have a smile in it's face. Advertising is everything.


  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget View Post
    That, and all the other factors I mentioned, need to be there for Palm's future flagship product...which isn't going to appeal to the youth market, but will be Palm's savior, if they get the formula right.
    I would suggest that given the current market conditions and Palm's recent track record for (not) bold innovation, it is *very* unlikely that Palm will be able to field a "flagship" product that will be the "savior" of the company. And if Palm (or its fans) is betting on that happening, well its just simply the wrong strategy to adopt.

    The market isn't what it was 4-5 years ago. There are *way* too many competitors, and they are *way* too aggressive and innovative to expect that Palm is somehow going to trump them all with a mystical flagship that will win back all the lost marketshare and save the company. The Foleo provides a good insight as to what would happen if Palm tries that tack again...

    Palm instead should be steadily executing, diversifying, producing SEVERAL, very different products, each addressing differing, promising segments of the market. It should hedge it bets on several good products rather than focusing on the ONE (flagship) to rule them all -- because it will fail in that. The market is too fragmented and diverse right now. There will never (again) be a single product line that will dominate the market, even just the "smartphone" market. There *is* no one "smartphone" market any more. Its good for us as consumers, that there are so many choices and tradeoff solutions: QWERTY or not, touch screen or not, Windows or not, flipphone or not, thin or not, great (big) battery or not, 3rd party apps/extensible or not, hi-res screen or not, low-price/hi-end, etc, etc.

    Even Apple with its iPhone is right away diversifying with the iPhone2. The Centro is a good start (for Palm...), but Palm can no longer be so ponderous and conservative in its offerings. And since it can never hope to out-HTC HTC, it really does need to focus on its "special sauce", its software, but it needs to learn from Apple, LG, HTC in molding its software for a broader audience. Only by sheer market/developer power in a vacuum (left by Palm itself!) did MS come to gain as much market share as it did. Because in reality, WM is really pretty crappy. So there really still is a window (sic) between the crappy WM and Apple/OSX and Symbian for Palm to still make a mark. The stupidest thing Palm ever did was believe that its hardware division was more valuable than its software division... and apparently nothing has really changed in that...

    And I hate to say it, as primarily a Sprint guy, but Palm really needs to pay closer attention to the GSM world. Its just a surer bet for its ultimate survival... Centro ? One okay product from two struggling companies... never will be a "savior" as is... Sprint itself needs saving...
    Last edited by neurocutie; 10/18/2007 at 06:40 PM.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by He123321 View Post
    If the Centro gets great advertising with a good hook to it, then Palm will have a smile in it's face. Advertising is everything.
    Damn, gorgeous avatar man.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    I would suggest that given the current market conditions and Palm's recent track record for (not) bold innovation, it is *very* unlikely that Palm will be able to field a "flagship" product that will be the "savior" of the company. And if Palm (or its fans) is betting on that happening, well its just simply the wrong strategy to adopt....
    You're right...and I didn't mean to imply that Palm's flagship product should be their ONLY product to save the company. Diversification is certainly a strategy that can work. A flagship is a lead ship in a fleet. As such, it should convey the power and leadership of the fleet...the BEST in the fleet. Palm has a fleet of Treo products. I agree that Palm should diversify, but right now, Palm needs a shot in the arm...and they should have their flagship product be the best it can be.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget View Post
    As such, it should convey the power and leadership of the fleet...the BEST in the fleet. Palm has a fleet of Treo products. I agree that Palm should diversify, but right now, Palm needs a shot in the arm...and they should have their flagship product be the best it can be.
    That's fine, but realize that there *is* no one "best"... a "best Treo" perhaps, but frankly that will always be a fairly small market, and IMHO it isn't in Palm's best interests to be confined to that small market...
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    That's fine, but realize that there *is* no one "best"... a "best Treo" perhaps, but frankly that will always be a fairly small market, and IMHO it isn't in Palm's best interests to be confined to that small market...

    It's all academic anyway...It's not like Palm is actually going to listen to us.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  15. #15  
    right now, palm's best is known as an "entry level smartphone." Or basically the walmart of smartphones.

    There was a time i thought i was getting the best smartphone on the market in a palm. And in some ways, i think the Centro is that. But the price doesn't indicate it and how they positioned it.

    It really is all about marketing.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    i think the Centro is that. But the price doesn't indicate it and how they positioned it.
    I agree.
    iPhone 4S
    Former Treo & Storm Owner
    Cigar Lover
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTiger View Post
    I agree.
    I have to concur with most of these postings; Palm has let us down and we are or most of us are seeking are own interim solutions). I want the linux Palm too!. I have gone to the BB 8830 as a solution. I will try the multi touch when it is released on the 4th of Nov. That phone of course does not have a keypad like the the 2nd generation; but it may work well. I can run my Palm OS programs which I have licenses for and also I have several licenses on the Win Mobile too. I did try the centro (activated for one day and I am back to my BB 8830). Only time will tell if the HTC Multi Touch is a winner! Palm refuses to give us any information that would stall us from jumping ship to the BB or new Win Mobile devices coming out. Like one said earlier there has been no stop gap release of the 755w. I believe that Palm is losing customers; True Palm will gain some new customers with the Centro but with the 25 dollars for the data plan that is not cheap. The battery door cover is difficult is very difficult to remove (I go thru two batteries a day). The insertion or I should say the removing of the micro sd cover is also difficult. The keyboard is probably ok but I had a difficult time typing a period (.). Palm needs to release some information, the blog doesn't seem to be updated on a regular basis. One sees so many unhappy users; why Palm cannot fix an old OS? Steve Sinclair said almost a year ago that the lag was inherent to the design of the phone. Why did they not change the design (hardware) of the Centro? This is a pretty limited stop gap.
  18. #18  
    ... someone could put a Centro's inner works in a 680 shell... with the bigger 680 keyboard, battery, and screen and standard SD slot... other wise the same Centro works. (You could also lose the antenna, though that's not important to me).

    I wonder if it is possible??
    "Everybody Palm!"

    Palm III/IIIC, Palm Vx, Verizon: Treo 650, Centro, Pre+.
    Leo killed my future Pre 3 & Opal, dagnabitt!
    Should I buy a Handspring Visor instead?
    Got a Pre2! "It eats iPhones for Breakfast"!
  19. #19  
    Mark my words, This phone is gonna make Palm a TON of money. It's easily the most sold phone at my store and this has NEVER happened witha smartphone. There are a huge number of people who want the features of a Palm on their cell but felt 3-400 was too much.


    Price sells in the phone industry and the value for this price is unbeatable...JMO
    Visor Platinum-->Visor NEO--->M505--->Treo 300 Sprint--->Treo 600---> TREO 650 ---> Treo 700P ---> Treo 755 --->Touch Diamond--->Touch Pro ---> Palm Pre
    Check out the expert judges at http//:mobileappsshowdown.com
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonman View Post
    Mark my words, This phone is gonna make Palm a TON of money. It's easily the most sold phone at my store and this has NEVER happened witha smartphone. There are a huge number of people who want the features of a Palm on their cell but felt 3-400 was too much.


    Price sells in the phone industry and the value for this price is unbeatable...JMO
    Good. They will have some money then to make my 900P.
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