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  1.    #1  
    It's the same thing as the 755p. I totally agreed with the Engadget letter and the podcasts from TC mentioning that Palm has done nothing to innovate. This is yet another device with the same guts as the 755p or even the 700p. Tell me in two generations of the Palm Treo how has Palm improved upon the 700p with this Centro?

    Yeah they got rid of the antenna, great, smaller battery, not so great. I just really don't believe this is the Centro because it was so hyped up as being a different device, thus a different moniker (Centro instead of treo). Go visit the Apple store these days, take a look at who's buying the iPhones in addition to ex-treo owners. It's all the Gen-Y kids. They've saved up, they're scooping up those 4GB ones while they last, and Palm has done nothing about this.

    Devices like the iPhone should have really opened people's eyes. I really don't think this Centro is gonna cut it. Even the kids and "dumbphone" owners that Palm is going for with this device would prefer the GUI eye-candy on other phones like the iPhone. Afterall, they're the kind who say "oooooh pretty" and go buy it based solely on that fact alone.

    Come on Palm......and for crying out loud, you have 3G data but no bluetooth 2.0? Of course no WiFi, but that's come to be expected. You restaffed with so many Apple execs, you cancelled the Foleo, but you disappoint your core userbase (all of us PalmOS fanatics) yet again. It's likely half of us have already moved to iPhones, but you have the opportunity to win us back since Apple has yet to open up to 3rd parties, but then you delayed a linux based treo yet again for another year. I'm starting to question if we're ever going to see that at all. Is Apple even going to have a non-WM touchscreen based competitor in this new smartphone market?
  2. #2  
    I think this was just something using existing stuff they have already to target different ones and provide some quick revenue.

    Palm better come out with something completely different next year if they want to compete though.

    Changing colors won't do it..
  3. hkklife's Avatar
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    #3  
    We said that in 2004 when the 650 was released....then we said it in 2005 when that year passed without a single new Treo release...then we said it in 2006 when the 700p came out and fell flat on its face. We're saying it again this year and Palm's really run out of time.

    The smartphone competition is getting fiercer by the minute and all Palm can manage to do is take the 16 month-old 700p spec sheet, cut it down to a smaller package, and neuter its specs even more (no fullsize SDHC, tiny battery, tiny LCD etc). I agree with Merlin's sentiments above. The "cool kids" are going to buy one of either two things: a free w/ contract flip or candybar basic cell phone (RAZR etc) OR go all out on a Sidekick or iPhone. The kids'll still see this thing as "too dorky". Palm's foolish omission of a 3.5mm stereo headphone slot really slams the door shut on the Centro as far as the media-savvy/youth market is concerned.

    Now, I think Palm & Sprint will initially sell at least a fair number of Centros, but I predict most of these will be going to Treo 600 & 650 owners looking for one final upgrade. If not that then it'll be bought as a 2nd Palm OS device for the family by someone purchasing it for their spouse or kids. I don't see this doing anything to stir up any major interest in POS nor doing anything to stem the abandonment of the platform by 3rd party developers. In fact, the strong software bundle of the Centro is probably going to make some developers sour now that Palm's including so many goodies "in the box".
  4. #4  
    I'm a very skeptical of forum nerds (myself included) talking about what "the kids" are going to buy. If you're over 30.....

    Sidekicks are huge bricks, crappy screens and lousy service. iPhones are too expensive and overkill for many. Both are on other networks besides Sprint, so Sprint needed something. I know no one in their late teens/early 20's with either (exception: someone tried the SK and hated it, they're on a Moto Q now; I know two people with iPhones--both works for Apple)

    As far as disappointing: (a) It's POS, so it's always disappointing (b) It's better than the 700p and 755p, which is not saying much anyways (c) It's cheap

    POS is going where it belongs: bargain bin devices for noobs. It should stay there till something better comes along.

    BigTreo lists a bunch of things you can do on POS that you can't do on other devices, which I think is relevant.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/28/2007 at 01:36 PM.

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  5. waldo15's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm a very skeptical of forum nerds (myself included) talking about what "the kids" are going to buy. If you're over 30.....

    Sidekicks are huge bricks, crappy screens and lousy service. iPhones are too expensive and overkill for many. Both are on other networks besides Sprint, so Sprint needed something. I know no one in their late teens/early 20's with either (exception: someone tried the SK and hated it, they're on a Moto Q now; I know two people with iPhones--both works for Apple)

    As far as disappointing: (a) It's POS, so it's always disappointing (b) It's better than the 700p and 755p, which is not saying much anyways (c) It's cheap

    POS is going where it belongs: bargain bin devices for noobs. It should stay there till something better comes along.

    BigTreo lists a bunch of things you can do on POS that you can't do on other devices, which I think is relevant.
    One need only to go to the mall on a weekend and see what the large percentage of kids are using for text messaging. They all have small flip phones (yes, RAZR mostly) and perhaps once I saw a Blackberry pearl on their hands... but that's it. They don't go for the fancy phones, that can push email/surf the web and the like, they just want a phone that can make phonecalls and text message reliably. Not to say the Centro does not achieve those two priorities, is just that why would a parent want to spend 100 on a phone when he can get something entirely free that will keep the kids happy?

    I feel the Centro has the tech world excited but the youngsters could care less... and they are the ones who will be using the darn thing according to Palm.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo15 View Post
    One need only to go to the mall on a weekend and see what the large percentage of kids are using for text messaging. They all have small flip phones (yes, RAZR mostly) and perhaps once I saw a Blackberry pearl on their hands... but that's it. They don't go for the fancy phones, that can push email/surf the web and the like, they just want a phone that can make phonecalls and text message reliably. Not to say the Centro does not achieve those two priorities, is just that why would a parent want to spend 100 on a phone when he can get something entirely free that will keep the kids happy?

    I feel the Centro has the tech world excited but the youngsters could care less... and they are the ones who will be using the darn thing according to Palm.
    New Razr2 V9M on Sprint is $249.99 with new contract. (Old Razrs are $29)

    Sidekick LX is $299 with contract; Slide is $199.

    Is Palm dumb for selling Centro out the gates for $99? Most contend within months it will be free with contract--how much cheaper can they go?

    POS is old, but it kills the Razr2 in features, 3rd party apps and has a touchscreen.

    BTW, why are you looking at kids in the mall?

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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I think this was just something using existing stuff they have already to target different ones and provide some quick revenue.

    Palm better come out with something completely different next year if they want to compete though.

    Changing colors won't do it..
    This is the simplest and truest statement I have read about the centro.
    Palm 105--->Samsung i-300--->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 300 (still has the best keyboard)-->Treo 755p-->Palm PRE-->Treo 680(unlocked by me)--->iPhone 3G---->iPhone 4---->Hp Pre3
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    New Razr2 V9M on Sprint is $249.99 with new contract. (Old Razrs are $29)

    Sidekick LX is $299 with contract; Slide is $199.

    Is Palm dumb for selling Centro out the gates for $99? Most contend within months it will be free with contract--how much cheaper can they go?

    POS is old, but it kills the Razr2 in features, 3rd party apps and has a touchscreen.

    BTW, why are you looking at kids in the mall?
    Its not really $99. That price demands a 2 year $25 data contract, which adds $600 to the price. The $249 Razr2 does not, and features a better camera and A2DP, with external music control and cool looks, which the kids may actually care more about than ftp'ing to their home server.

    Surur
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm a very skeptical of forum nerds (myself included) talking about what "the kids" are going to buy. If you're over 30.....

    Sidekicks are huge bricks, crappy screens and lousy service. iPhones are too expensive and overkill for many. Both are on other networks besides Sprint, so Sprint needed something. I know no one in their late teens/early 20's with either (exception: someone tried the SK and hated it, they're on a Moto Q now; I know two people with iPhones--both works for Apple)

    As far as disappointing: (a) It's POS, so it's always disappointing (b) It's better than the 700p and 755p, which is not saying much anyways (c) It's cheap

    POS is going where it belongs: bargain bin devices for noobs. It should stay there till something better comes along.

    BigTreo lists a bunch of things you can do on POS that you can't do on other devices, which I think is relevant.
    You make some good points Malatesta, and I tend to agree with some. I'm a tech pro who is under 30 though, and I've seen and helped a fair share of people/coworkers/etc choose a phone, and I can't tell you how many times you hear "oh that's just so cool" or "but it's so pretty". Now I may be wrong, but to non-technical people the aesthetics of the device seem to really influence their decision. The way Palm has made the Centro, feature-wise, it just looks like a 755p with different packaging. This why it seems like the Centro is targeted at "kids" and non-pro users. Is there even one major feature that is new or different from the 755p?

    Then go to the apple store, take a look at the people buying the iPhone. I was at the apple store getting service from the genius bar the other day...and...well....I see a few engineers (like myself) going after work and buying the device. You can see it in their faces and the way they act that they finally decided after the price drop, after the hype, to finally cave and buy one and as soon as they're checked out they run out of the store to go activate it. I also see quite a few teens whose parents are getting the iPhone instead of an iPod for them now, and a lot of average joe's who just have to have the latest and coolest phones (but you can tell they don't know a thing about what makes them so cool).

    In terms of aesthetics, I really don't think the Centro is going to stack up to what's out there today.


    I myself was so excited about the 700p finally seeing the light of day, I'm sure many of you remember, but that was another disappointment from Palm. I finally made the transition to WM with a 750, which to date has probably been the best phone (feature-wise) that I've owned, except that WM has a crappy UI and noticeable lag when compared to POS or Apple's (even in WM6, although WM6 is a bit better speed/lag-wise). Even for a gadget nut like me, the lure of the iPhone's UI is irresistible. Yes, it is a less functional platform at the moment, but the responsiveness of the iPhone's UI is as good as PalmOS, and much much prettier and even makes common actions fun with UI effects. I routinely swap between the 750 and the iPhone just to get the best of both worlds (and do some reviews on 750 accessories).

    I guess my main point here is that Palm is losing its group of core power users to Apple and even RIMM as the both become more and more functional platforms, and it doesn't seem like they're doing anything about it. I hope they do, and I know time will tell, but to me, pushing TreoLinux back another year is not a good indication.


    The opportunity is now........people love iPhone but complain about the lack of 3rd party apps........the API's are there so it's likely Apple will eventually release an SDK, and what's to keep people on a Palm platform if/when they embrace 3rd parties?........it's time to step up to the plate Palm.




    PS - and for crying out loud Palm, you STILL don't have a good sync solution for Mac users.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its not really $99. That price demands a 2 year $25 data contract, which adds $600 to the price. The $249 Razr2 does not, and features a better camera and A2DP, with external music control and cool looks, which the kids may actually care more about than ftp'ing to their home server.

    Surur
    c'mon surur, you can do better...

    So take away the $100 MIR (<--that requires the $25 data plan, not the phone).

    Centro = $199 w/ 2 year contract; Razr2 = $249 with 2 year contract.

    There, equal.

    Razr2 also has worse battery life (up to 3 hrs!).

    It's all relative to what a person wants. Kids don't know what a2dp is, let alone use it...someday that technology will be popular, like when Apple releases it. Until then, it's nice but not an amazing feature.

    I'd say Slingbox is a better advanage on a Centro than a2dp, imo. Heck, you want a2dp on Centro? Take the $49 savings with Centro and buy Audiogateway for $20.

    $220 vs $249.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/28/2007 at 03:52 PM.

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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlyn_3D View Post
    In terms of aesthetics, I really don't think the Centro is going to stack up to what's out there today.
    But it's red.
    And shiny.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlyn_3D View Post
    In terms of aesthetics, I really don't think the Centro is going to stack up to what's out there today.
    All good points. It's not bad, not great.

    Honestly, when I see 90% of Sprint's phone line up, nothing catches my eye.

    Apple will always win that front and we won't see anything "new" from Palm that can remotely compete till mid 2008 at the earliest. All these devices have been in the works for 12-18 months already.

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  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    All good points. It's not bad, not great.

    Honestly, when I see 90% of Sprint's phone line up, nothing catches my eye.

    Apple will always win that front and we won't see anything "new" from Palm that can remotely compete till mid 2008 at the earliest. All these devices have been in the works for 12-18 months already.
    Yeah....and that's a real shame....I would love to see another company force Apple to have to be more competitive instead of the other way around. Could you imagine?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    c'mon surur, you can do better...

    So take away the $100 MIR (<--that requires the $25 data plan, not the phone).

    Centro = $199 w/ 2 year contract; Razr2 = $249 with 2 year contract.

    There, equal.

    Razr2 also has worse battery life (up to 3 hrs!).

    It's all relative to what a person wants. Kids don't know what a2dp is, let alone use it...someday that technology will be popular, like when Apple releases it. Until then, it's nice but not an amazing feature.

    I'd say Slingbox is a better advanage on a Centro than a2dp, imo. Heck, you want a2dp on Centro? Take the $49 savings with Centro and buy Audiogateway for $20.

    $220 vs $249.
    We are talking about what kids want. They wont be looking at battery life, they will be looking at style, and who has the best commercials.

    Moto routinely advertises their phones with their bluetooth stereo headphones, and they are pretty cool. In fact, they often bundle them together.

    Kids dont buy smartphones, they buy feature phones. The Centro is pretty devoid of features kids care about.

    You cant say a phone is aimed at kids and then try and justify it by appealing to features kids are not interested in.

    Surur

    PS: Most people doe not have slingboxes, especially kids.

    PPS: What would appeal to kids of today would be YouTube and myspace integration.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    We are talking about what kids want. They wont be looking at battery life, they will be looking at style, and who has the best commercials.

    Moto routinely advertises their phones with their bluetooth stereo headphones, and they are pretty cool. In fact, they often bundle them together.

    Kids dont buy smartphones, they buy feature phones. The Centro is pretty devoid of features kids care about.

    You cant say a phone is aimed at kids and then try and justify it by appealing to features kids are not interested in.

    Surur

    PS: Most people doe not have slingboxes, especially kids.
    K, but Razr2 doesn't come with BT headphones, so moot point.

    Centro can do YouTube mobile out of the box, play music, videos/movies, IM, email, better web browser, run 3rd party apps, has a high res touch screen and is much easier to type on than a Razr. But "kids" aren't interested in any of those?

    I would have killed someone for that device in college or highschool.

    What's the Razr got again?

    Thin, more expensive, worse battery life and "style" (relative term, btw--Razr2 is a simple rehash). What else?

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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I would have killed someone for that device in college or highschool
    Yes, but you were a nerd

    Ed explicitly said this phone competes in the general phone market, not the smartphone market.

    In the general phone market phones have very specific roles.

    1) They need to be easy to carry, because most of the time thats all you do with your phone.

    2) It needs to work well as a phone (making calls, good volume, easy to dial)

    3) It reflects your style and social status, just like your car or your handbag does.

    Now ask yourself, which one ticks these boxes better, the Centro or the latest Katana or Shine or Razr? These companies understand the general consumer better than Palm does, and it shows.

    Surur
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Yes, but you were a nerd
    oh indeed I was...but a hip nerd
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Ed explicitly said this phone competes in the general phone market, not the smartphone market.

    In the general phone market phones have very specific roles.

    1) They need to be easy to carry, because most of the time thats all you do with your phone.

    2) It needs to work well as a phone (making calls, good volume, easy to dial)

    3) It reflects your style and social status, just like your car or your handbag does.

    Now ask yourself, which one ticks these boxes better, the Centro or the latest Katana or Shine or Razr? These companies understand the general consumer better than Palm does, and it shows.

    Surur
    Certainly I think 1 & 2 qualify. If kids carry around Sidekicks and Ocean's, then carrying around a Centro is easy.

    Numer 3 is partially true. I also know lots of people who just take the free phones from carriers and don't care about any of this stuff.

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  18. #18  
    Funny - based on everything I read in the past few months, I was expecting LESS than they delivered in the Centro! It is the same ol' in a shinny new wrapper at a low price - as said above, bargain bin type of device to try and plug the dike with for a while longer. Some folks over at SU really like it. I am sure they will sell some - but I personally believe there is an emerging market for people who want a little more than a flip - and this is a good way to "ease" into such a device. I have been really surprised at the noobies over at SU who are buying a Mogul - and that's a big jump, IMO. Guess we'll see what happens next month!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Now ask yourself, which one ticks these boxes better, the Centro or the latest Katana or Shine or Razr?
    I keep wishing that Palm or *someone* would make a Treo/Centro that is shaped/formed like a RAZR or Katana. Technologically it is clearly possible -- the HTC StarTrek / Cingular 3125 is such a device (a WM/Std like a Q/Dash, but in the size/form of a RAZR).

    A RAZR/Blade/Katana sized Palm flipphone is what I've been wanting for years. Why choose between a Centro and a RAZR -- have the best of both...

    (I know, although HTC could make it, Palm apparently can't and doesn't have the vision or gumption to even try... sigh...)
  20. daver42's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlyn_3D View Post
    PS - and for crying out loud Palm, you STILL don't have a good sync solution for Mac users.
    I'm curious what's broken with the Mac hotsync? I'm able to hotsync my 700p via cable and/or bluetooth to either Palm Desktop or iSync on my Macs.
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