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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Actually, this thread was about how this is basically a 755p in a new format
    The thread within a thread stemmed from BigTreo's response to surur, positing the Centro as a possible phone for the masses:
    Surur: Ed explicitly said this phone competes in the general phone market, not the smartphone market.

    In the general phone market phones have very specific roles...

    BigTreo: Here is the Centro's report card:...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I own a Moto Q and while it sure is thin, I find it too wide and not as satisfying ergonomically even compared to an old Treo.
    Are you saying that you would prefer the Q to be thicker, given its width, or rather that you don't like its width ? In any case, are you saying you prefer the Centro's narrower screen to the Treo 7xx ? I'd be surprised if you do... Are you saying that given a Treo 7xx or a new with *exactly* the same width and screen size and function, but only 13mm thick, you would still prefer the thicker original 7xx ?

    You can trot out the Q as being a bit too wide, and I might agree, but the Blackjack is right in there as part of the pack, and a full 5mm narrower than the Q, essentially identical to the Treo 755p in width.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Sidekick may get an "F" but it proves the point: size doesn't always matter (nor style, ahem) but rather features are important for specific areas of the market, and this can result in a very successful device (line). What is Sprint's "sidekick killer"? Moto Q? Maybe.
    I don't disagree with this, although the specific question posed was about grading for size. Sprint is supposed to have an env-like phone in the pipeline, which might be considered a "Sidekick killer", although I'm not sure that the Sidekick really needs Sprint to try to kill it... Indeed I wouldn't complain about pushing the Centro as a Sidekick competitor. Fine by me. None of these address the question of a Palm phone for the masses...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Re: touchscreen = thicker, I'm actually not aware of anyone who seriously makes that argument. It was always speculation around here as one reason, but no one knew for sure and Palm I don't recall has ever said that is the reason either.
    Well its been used extensively as an excuse for the Treo's thickness. If we can now lay that canard to rest, I'm happy... but that leaves ??? as the reason Treo's are so thick ? (other than battery... again invalidated by the iPhone)
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The Razr2/Katana II are 320x240 compared to a 320x320 on the Centro, hence worse. It's not a bad screen, but fact is 320x320 is just higher. Are their flips with 320x320 resolution or higher? I dunno. (Plus Katana II doesn't even have 3g).
    Katana DLX is 3G/EVDO. I don't think you mean to suggest that the difference between 320x240 and 320x320 accounts for any of the Centro size argument...

    The Samsung i550 flipphone has a 320x320 display. The imate Ultimate 9150 flipphone is *suppose* to have a VGA touchscreen, but who knows if it really will happen...
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I really believe this device is going to sell. POS may be out of date for the power user, but it is still the easiest Smartphone OS out there to use. People are going to buy this thing for its size, ease of use, functionality and PRICE.
    You know, unlike the Foleo which was meant to be a slow burner, we should know by Palm's first Quarterly numbers exactly what the Centro did for them. No need to speculate.

    Surur
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I really believe this device is going to sell. ... The only other smartphone out there that really competes with this thing is a Pearl and I think the Centro offers more than a Pearl.
    Not sure what you think the Q/Dash/Blackjack shouldn't be considered as competitors, at least as far as the typical customer is concerned...

    I really wish Palm well with the Centro, truly I do... If it gives Palm more breathing space and resources to then build better products, then great. My most immediate concerns about it are the $25/mo data plan requirement to get the $99 price -- hopefully Sprint will relax this because it will be a big dampening factor to the success of the Centro, and whether the success of the Centro guts the revenue from the higher margining Treo's more than anything else. I don't know the numbers, but it could easily be that Palm needs to sell 3X or 4X as many Centros to capture lost revenue from lost/converted Treo sales... Let's hope it is all just additive...

    Saw a couple of girls in the supermarket yesterday, each with Blackberries in hand while shopping, (others had iPhones). Those girls were fumbling with their BB's -- I don't think girls are used to carrying around such big devices, with no pockets to stash them -- they almost dropped them numerous times. I've been wondering if the Centro can be successful in that market... I guess we'll see... (but I do hope that it is... for Palm's sake, and for us as Palm fans)
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    Are you saying that you would prefer the Q to be thicker, given its width, or rather that you don't like its width ? In any case, are you saying you prefer the Centro's narrower screen to the Treo 7xx ? I'd be surprised if you do... Are you saying that given a Treo 7xx or a new with *exactly* the same width and screen size and function, but only 13mm thick, you would still prefer the thicker original 7xx ?
    I'm saying I would prefer the Q to be less wide and have a rounded back.

    The centro has a "narrower" screen with a higher resolution. Outside of watching Slingbox on the Q, I can't say the 320x240 landscape screen was an awesome experience. Not bad, but not great either. I actually prefer square for everyday phone stuff. Landscape is killer for video though. I don't watch that much video, so not a priority.

    The only thing I want to happen to the Treo 7xx and therefore 800x series is for it to be thinner without sacrificing battery. I definitely do not want it wider, no way.

    Fact is, devices with removal batteries that are super thin generally sacrifice on battery life in the end. That's the trade-off.
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    You can trot out the Q as being a bit too wide, and I might agree, but the Blackjack is right in there as part of the pack, and a full 5mm narrower than the Q, essentially identical to the Treo 755p in width.
    I don't disagree with this, although the specific question posed was about grading for size.
    BJ is quite small and so is its screen in turn. So you get a 2.3 inch landscape versus a 2.2 inch square, square gets the higher resolution. As far as size, sure it's smaller but stories like these always seem to be the result...

    I always find it funny that everyone here throws out the BJ, Dash and Moto Q yet no one here arguing against the Centro as a decent device actually uses one of those...and the reasons are somewhat obvious: they're good devices, but hardly great and they have lots of pros and just as many cons.
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    Sprint is supposed to have an env-like phone in the pipeline, which might be considered a "Sidekick killer", although I'm not sure that the Sidekick really needs Sprint to try to kill it... Indeed I wouldn't complain about pushing the Centro as a Sidekick competitor. Fine by me.
    I think you mean the LG Lx260, which I referenced earlier? The non-3g device with 176 x 220 resolution & 1.3mp shooter? Eh.
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    None of these address the question of a Palm phone for the masses...
    Well, I never took the position it's for the "masses" but rather for those who want an entry-level, easy to use, cheap smartphone.
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    Well its been used extensively as an excuse for the Treo's thickness. If we can now lay that canard to rest, I'm happy... but that leaves ??? as the reason Treo's are so thick ? (other than battery... again invalidated by the iPhone)
    It's a straw man argument since no one here brought it up as an excuse, just yourself.

    Treos are so thick because that's the way they are made. The iPnone partially gets away with by having a non-removal battery (the other is just good engineering--something that WM devices are lacking as well)
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    Katana DLX is 3G/EVDO. I don't think you mean to suggest that the difference between 320x240 and 320x320 accounts for any of the Centro size argument...
    I never insinuated that, so why suggest it? I mean to suggest that 320x320 is nicer looking than 320x240, just as I originally stated.

    I'll state here flat: I think the Centro is perfectly proportioned for slipping in your pocket and ergonomics. I don't mind if they add a tiny bit on for width, which they certainly will do for the WM version.
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    The Samsung i550 flipphone has a 320x320 display. The imate Ultimate 9150 flipphone is *suppose* to have a VGA touchscreen, but who knows if it really will happen...
    Sounds nice, where can I get this Samsung i550? (btw, that device was hideous looking--literally looked like a clam)

    The iMate Ultimate, eh? The 9150 sure looks nice but I'm hearing $700 for a price on that guy....

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You know, unlike the Foleo which was meant to be a slow burner, we should know by Palm's first Quarterly numbers exactly what the Centro did for them. No need to speculate.

    Surur
    Surur, people speculate because as of this moment and for the next 3-5 months we won't know those numbers....

    No different than how we speculated on iPhone sales in that other thread.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/30/2007 at 04:22 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I always find it funny that everyone here throws out the BJ, Dash and Moto Q yet no one here arguing against the Centro as a decent device actually uses one of those...and the reasons are somewhat obvious: they're good devices, but hardly great and they have lots of pros and just as many cons.
    The more obvious reason is that this is a Treo forum, so again its rather self-selecting...

    But the market numbers speak for themselves: Q/Dash/Blackjacks are selling quite well, along with BB's. Palm's marketshare is dramatically down. Palm is advising a probable LOSS for the next quarter. Financial analysts are rating Palm stock as SELL. So the Treo is *really* sliding against the "hardly great" competition. The question generally posed is whether the Centro is sufficiently different and compelling wrt the competition that will reverse this trend...

    I use a Dash, but not as my primary device. I like it as a 2nd device mostly for non-phone tasks, but don't use it more because: 1) its not on Sprint, 2) I'm afraid that it will get trashed if I treat it as I do my primary phone, 3) I freely admit I prefer using PalmOS than WM6 for routine PDA/phone use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I never insinuated that, so why suggest it? I mean to suggest that 320x320 is nicer looking than 320x240, just as I originally stated.
    Because you brought up "poor resolution" when the context of the discussion was about size.

    I hope the Centro will be a true success for Palm. I will definitely try one when our local stores stock them. More than likely, though, my next device will be a Touch/Vogue. I would be happier if there was a PalmOS Touch though (or better, a POS2 Touch), and happier still if there was a new Palm flipphone... sigh...
    Last edited by neurocutie; 09/30/2007 at 05:34 PM.
  6. #46  
    why does one want a Centro?

    why does one want a Pearl?

    why does one want a Blackjack/Dash/Q?

    why does one want a Touch?

    simple, right? one does something better than another, to someone, but they don't offer everything everyone is after.

    gain something, lose something. whose device best meets your marginal benefit requirement is up to you and no one else. i for one can't think of owning a pocketable device that only offers t9, but hey, that's just me. for many others, that's all they need so a device such as a Touch might be perfect for them. but when you have a small device such as a BB Pearl that offers both keyboard and small form-factor it's difficult to imagine any other wants outside of a larger and touch-able screen.

    again: gain something, lose something. there's a middle ground in there for all of us!
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    The more obvious reason is that this is a Treo forum, so again its rather self-selecting...

    But the market numbers speak for themselves: Q/Dash/Blackjacks are selling quite well, along with BB's. Palm's marketshare is dramatically down. Palm is advising a probable LOSS for the next quarter. Financial analysts are rating Palm stock as SELL. So the Treo is *really* sliding against the "hardly great" competition. The question generally posed is whether the Centro is sufficiently different and compelling wrt the competition that will reverse this trend...

    I use a Dash, but not as my primary device. I like it as a 2nd device mostly for non-phone tasks, but don't use it more because: 1) its not on Sprint, 2) I'm afraid that it will get trashed if I treat it as I do my primary phone, 3) I freely admit I prefer using PalmOS than WM6 for routine PDA/phone use.

    Because you brought up "poor resolution" when the context of the discussion was about size.

    I hope the Centro will be a true success for Palm. I will definitely try one when our local stores stock them. More than likely, though, my next device will be a Touch/Vogue. I would be happier if there was a PalmOS Touch though (or better, a POS2 Touch), and happier still if there was a new Palm flipphone... sigh...
    Please! Enough of singing the "I Wish Palm Would Make A Flip Phone" blues!
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I always find it funny that everyone here throws out the BJ, Dash and Moto Q ...
    Probably not saying anything that people don't already know, but... from reading recent reviews, I'd have to say that the BB's probably (and rightly) represent a greater competitive threat to Palm right now... from what I can tell, the BB's are flying very high... and RIM is just storm'in... only obvious drawback is the need for expensive BB data plans to make the most of the devices... but not on all carriers... RIM seems to be doing what Palm can't... adapting, innovating and bring out truly new products...
  9. #49  
    Since this thread has gone all over the place, I might as well chime in with a few comments:

    - I used to be a die-hard clam fan, using the Samsung i500 until I got my hands on a Sprint i550 (yes, it was a Sprint beta unit). Then I got bored with it after a few weeks, and moved to the 700p. Now going to try out the Centro for my next unit, because the iPhone won't cut it as a business phone, and I want something smaller than this 700p brick.

    - I used to prefer the "phone-first" design of devices like the i500, but I quickly came to depend on the QWERTY keyboard of the Treos. Now when I pick up my old i500, I cringe at the thought of trying to type something out.

    - I don't subscribe to how a company positions a phone as consumer or business model -- either it has the features I need to do my job, or not. That said, to me the Centro is a 755 with all the business trimmings (company email, exchange calendaring, QWERTY keyboard, BT, speakerphone, memos, task manager, etc.) but in a smaller form factor that many of us have have been waiting for. So I'll give it a 30 day test run as my business phone, and see how it goes.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Fact is, devices with removal batteries that are super thin generally sacrifice on battery life in the end. That's the trade-off.
    i'm not sure about that, are you? the blackberry pearl's battery lasts a good while, as long or longer than larger battery Treos.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    i'm not sure about that, are you? the blackberry pearl's battery lasts a good while, as long or longer than larger battery Treos.
    I'm 100% sure of it, otherwise I wouldn't have said it

    BB 8700 = 1000mah
    BB 8310 = 1100mah --> TT = up to 4 hrs
    BB Pearl = 900mah --> TT = 3.5 hrs

    (of course real world usage varies, but that's what they are rated at)

    Those are tiny batteries (6800=1500mah; 700wx=1800mah). Centro has an 1130mah battery & puts it in the same size class as Curve & Pearl.

    So why the longer life on BB? Well, it's not b/c of the size of their batteries but because their OS, much like Apple did with OSX.

    Now, since POS has not been updated for literally years, it makes sense that it's not taking advantage of today's hardware as much as newer OSs (I'm not sure what MS's excuse is...).

    Throw in other differences e.g. iPhone has no 3g radio precisely because it takes a large hit on battery life and you have your differences. CDMA is also more power hungry than GSM.

    So POS and WM are at a disadvantage here: the thinner you make them, the worse the battery life. Heck, look at the new Razr2--super thin and they say "up to 3 hours of talk time!".

    I'm sure if you made a graph of thin phones and battery life/talk time over the last years, you'd find increasing thinness and decrease battery life (remember talk times used to be 5+ hrs?).
    Last edited by Malatesta; 10/01/2007 at 06:40 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm 100% sure of it, otherwise I wouldn't have said it

    BB 8700 = 1000mah
    BB 8310 = 1100mah
    BB Pearl = 900mah

    Those are tiny batteries (6800=1500mah; 700wx=1800mah). Centro has an 1130mah battery & puts it in the same size class as Curve & Pearl.

    So why the longer life on BB? Well, it's not b/c of the size of their batteries but because their OS, much like Apple did with OSX.

    Now, since POS has not been updated for literally years, it makes sense that it's not taking advantage of today's hardware as much as newer OSs (I'm not sure what MS's excuse is...).

    Throw in other differences e.g. iPhone has no 3g radio precisely because it takes a large hit on battery life and you have your differences. CDMA is also more power hungry than GSM.
    the Pearl is MUCH thinner than most all Treos, it has a much smaller battery (smaller than any Treo), and the device lasts longer than a Treo with a 1130mah battery. There is no "sacrifice" or "tradeoff" (as you stated originally) in my eyes. That i'm sure of as well.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm 100% sure of it, otherwise I wouldn't have said it

    BB 8700 = 1000mah
    BB 8310 = 1100mah
    BB Pearl = 900mah

    Those are tiny batteries (6800=1500mah; 700wx=1800mah). Centro has an 1130mah battery & puts it in the same size class as Curve & Pearl.

    So why the longer life on BB? Well, it's not b/c of the size of their batteries but because their OS, much like Apple did with OSX.

    Now, since POS has not been updated for literally years, it makes sense that it's not taking advantage of today's hardware as much as newer OSs (I'm not sure what MS's excuse is...).

    Throw in other differences e.g. iPhone has no 3g radio precisely because it takes a large hit on battery life and you have your differences. CDMA is also more power hungry than GSM.
    Fact is, devices with removal batteries that are super thin generally sacrifice on battery life in the end. That's the trade-off.
    the Pearl is thin, it has a small battery (smaller than any Treo), and the device lasts longer than a Treo with a 1130mah battery. There is no "sacrifice" or "tradeoff" in my eyes. That i'm sure of as well.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    the Pearl is MUCH thinner than most all Treos, it has a much smaller battery (smaller than any Treo), and the device lasts longer than a Treo with a 1130mah battery. There is no "sacrifice" or "tradeoff" (as you stated originally) in my eyes. That i'm sure of as well.
    Wrong.

    Centro = 1130 mah battery = rated at 3.5 hrs (CDMA = uses more power)
    Pearl = 900 mah battery = rated at 3.5 hrs (GSM = uses less)

    So the Centro has a larger capacity battery (230mah) which can be attributed to it's larger size (this is obvious).

    Size is also not "much thinner" compared to the Centro, imo.

    As fas as "lasting longer" the explanation is in the OS: why is that not an obvious difference? Is this really disputable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    So why the longer life on BB? Well, it's not b/c of the size of their batteries but because their OS, much like Apple did with OSX.

    Now, since POS has not been updated for literally years, it makes sense that it's not taking advantage of today's hardware as much as newer OSs (I'm not sure what MS's excuse is...).

    Throw in other differences e.g. iPhone has no 3g radio precisely because it takes a large hit on battery life and you have your differences. CDMA is also more power hungry than GSM.
    .
    When I speak of trade-off/sacrifice, I'm speaking of WM and POS devices. Make your chunky BB even thinner...see what happens to battery life.

    http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...77/centro3.jpg
    Last edited by Malatesta; 10/01/2007 at 06:51 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15. #55  
    the Pearl lasts longer and it has a smaller battery than the Centro, and it's less thin.

    i could care less what it's attributable to.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    the Pearl lasts longer and it has a smaller battery than the Centro, and it's less thin.

    i could care less what it's attributable to.
    ???
    Great response. So why ask me the question:

    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    i'm not sure about that, are you? the blackberry pearl's battery lasts a good while, as long or longer than larger battery Treos.
    Just so you can turn around like a child and say "I don't care. BB rules!"

    So you never really cared for an explanation and are just trolling...surprise!

    Thanks for playing along ollie...

    PS My comment was about non-removal batteries, which BB does not have, so I don't see how it is at all relevant to the point.

    PSS Centro and Pearl are rated for the same talk time: 3.5 hours. Centro is also not out yet, so I'm not sure how you "know" it lasts longer.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 10/01/2007 at 07:04 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ???
    PS My comment was about non-removal batteries, which BB does not have, so I don't see how it is at all relevant to the point.
    you said:

    Fact is, devices with removal batteries that are super thin generally sacrifice on battery life in the end. That's the trade-off.
    and as far as the battery goes, fine....it lasts longer than a T680 and i'm almost sure it will outlast the new Centro as well. there is no tradeoff, no sacrifice.

    'round 'n 'round the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush, ............

    nice try, Mal
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    you said:



    and as far as the battery goes, fine....it lasts longer than a T680 and i'm almost sure it will outlast the new Centro as well. there is no tradeoff, no sacrifice.

    'round 'n 'round the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush, ............

    nice try, Mal
    This isn't about Blackberries, Ollie. It's about the Centro. Start a new thread: BB vs Centro.

    ps no trade off, no sacrifice? Pearl doesn't have a qwerty KB...that is a sacrifice.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  19. #59  
    I am not bitter. You all know that I am not bitter. I have learned not to expect equity from Palm. I just want everyone to notice that Palm has dissed the GSM market one more time, not to mention no WiFi, no DUN, no GPS, no etc., one more time. No wonder everyone loves RIM and hates Palm.

    By the way, I saw a demo of the n95 today. Nokia will get as much for that dog as the most I ever paid for a Palm. Hell, I would pay $1000, maybe $2000, for a POS/UMTS/GPS/WiFi phone and throw my iPhone into the bargain. Palm thinks its about the money. That is why they cannot make any.

    And yes, I did see Colligan on TV. Embarassing.
  20. #60  
    ^ they just don't get it anymore. they (whomever they were) did at one time, but a long time ago that was.

    they have become an embarassment of a company in the tech world. first the T680/755 (no antenna, curved in sides) and now a further shaved down version of that phone. funny, really....
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
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