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  1. #21  
    I'd argue that kids look for style over substance.

    Everything that you've posted in terms of capabilities relates to substance.

    Will the appearance of the phone itself appeal?

    Will the appearance of the os appeal?

    The mere fact that the Foleo missed the mark so badly, and that palm invested so much, leads to me to believe that Palm will fail- until they prove me otherwise.

    In spite of the centro being targeted to a new market, I doubt it will appeal to many beyond the treo user.

    And I have been every surprised to see people on the street using a treo who don't look like treo users. Is this segment going to grow? maybe. But it will disappoint those expecting this to open up new markets for them.
  2. #22  
    we'll soon be seeing new members in treocentral. that#ll be one positive thing, whilst we wait for the next real treo .)
  3.    #23  
    The Centro will pull some featurephone users. It will appeal to some current Treo users. It will appeal to some current users of other smartphone devices. The kids everyone keeps talking about is not Palm's only focus. As a matter of fact I believe they said high school to young professional. It's more of the featurephone audience they are looking for. That includes old fogies that wanted one but thought it was to expensive. It will be successful guys. Sorry.

    As for featurephones being able to do some stuff on my bunk list. I didn't think their were any featurephones that could be used as a modem and not be charged PAM charges. If there are how many are $99 or cheaper. Nobody said any of these things were things you would do all of the time. Actually the point is more that the few times you need a calculator you would have one because you will have your phone. I am a loan officer so I need to do financial math which a regular calculator won't do. Again the point of these additional features is that in addition to the fact that this phone is cheap, has the basic features I need, has some more advanced features I will use frequently, it also has some features very advanced things I may or may not ever use but it's nice to still have them at a great price.

    We can argue about old UIs but something is only old if you have seen it or used it before. For those of you who haven't caught it. This is not Palm's wow device. This is the entry level. This phone will not wow anyone already using Treocentral. Period. I wow people with my phone all the time and it's a 2 years old 700w. Still a great phone. I would buy a Centro if it WM6 professional. I would stand in line to get it if I had to.

    UIs and frontends can be updated at anytime. They should put a little home page with easier access to the cool stuff like music, photos, and video. As a vetern Treo user (since the 300) I agree that PalmOS is old. That's why I jumped WM5 as soon as it was available on a Treo. But too someone with no experience with PalmOS...
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by hokieinidaho View Post
    I'm afraid I have to agree with neurocutie.

    This "new" device doesn't do anything different than my 650, other than have a fast network with sprint - at least in terms of what I'm looking for. Same device, same marketing launch by mktg dept at Palm Inc, different shell/wrapper for a case (which by the way I think looks cool - but haven't seen anyone do the correlation of size to button-punching efficiency - that being said, my larger 650 has the keys crammed too close).

    And for those that are saying "Yeah, but others don't know that all these new features exist on previous Treo models." The average 11-year-old has better intuition. They know devices, they know what's up, and how to get things working. All my coworkers have their non-palm devices and they've managed to get them to do all the things I've seen referenced above. Yes, the $99 offer will win buys - it's a good segment for getting some non-smart (phone ) people to jump into the smart phone space, but...

    I love my Treo, but I'm frustrated by the lack of attention to fixing some fundamental things that drive me nuts. And if these are already fixed, please forgive me, but I see no attention to these details in the reviews, the marketing, or the masses.

    I want a built-in calendar app that has basic functionality similar to the email app (Versamail) such as being able to click on the phone numbers & dial. Crap, you can't even COPY/PASTE the number given you click on the location field and it disappears and cuts off the field (UI problem, because the data is there). That's the primary reason I bought a smart phone. I got tired of dumb-phones cutting off the meeting invite details. I got what I thought I wanted, but it's become an annoyance that I have to grab a pencil and paper to write down a 10-digit (more if it's an international call) with a 10-digit callid to dial into a conference ID. That's really fun when driving too. Save me the details of 2day and other apps (which I'd be willing to invest in if I actually found one I like) because this should be fundamental to the masses that aspire to "cutting edge".

    Luckily I can get my mail through IMAP now that my fortune 10 employer decided to leave open IMAP for the meantime. But before that, the sync thing - ACK! Okay, it's better than ActiveSync, but the crashes, having to delete files with a non-native (but free) app, and the fact that the versa mail tries to send messages when you store them in the outbox despite delivery/cfg settings. So, that's unusable.

    Nice calc, but no instructions. I could go on, but you get my point. When I go to buy my next device, it won't be limited to a Treo. If I don't find anything else I like better, than I'll be back. Otherwise I'm going shopping elsewhere.
    Wow! Sounds like you need Windows Mobile my friend. I switched almost 2 years ago.

    BTW, the Centro isn't designed to do anything that current Treos don't do. It's just smaller and cheaper to appeal to the "i like it but it's to big" and the " I like it but it's too expensive" crowd.

    If they release it with WM6 pro they can add me to the "it's small and cheap and I don't lose any functionality" crowd.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    As for featurephones being able to do some stuff on my bunk list. I didn't think their were any featurephones that could be used as a modem and not be charged PAM charges. If there are how many are $99 or cheaper.
    Don't know if the Samsung M300 works (it well might), but its $0. The M500, M510, M610 all work with the disabled NAI, all under $100. The older A900, A920 work. Older Sanyo's work without PAM charges.

    All V/PV phones work for PAM, but your criteria of not getting charged for PAM is, well, kinda subversive :-) because as I'm sure you know, Sprint would consider all such usage, *including* Treo/Centro PAM without extra charges, as being theft of service. As far as Sprint is concerned, if you do PAM, you are supposed to be charged for it, even for the Treos and 6700's.

    I believe what you are talking about is the PDAnet program that allows Treos and WM phones to do PAM without Sprint know about it. That is an extra $40 program that the "masses" wouldn't know about, that Sprint would consider running against their TOS and if enough people did it, they would certainly be more aggressive about shutting down. So I don't really think it should be touted as a feature or criteria for the purposes of this discussion.
  6. #26  
    I think it will be a hit, if it is stable and not crash often. Having a touch screen and keypad is hugh! Form factor is great. This will introduce and ween the teens onto the POS and they will find how powerful and user friendly it is. Palm is counting on the this new generation of users to buy more powerful future devices from Palm (if they get their act together).
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    Don't know if the Samsung M300 works (it well might), but its $0. The M500, M510, M610 all work with the disabled NAI, all under $100. The older A900, A920 work. Older Sanyo's work without PAM charges.

    All V/PV phones work for PAM, but your criteria of not getting charged for PAM is, well, kinda subversive :-) because as I'm sure you know, Sprint would consider all such usage, *including* Treo/Centro PAM without extra charges, as being theft of service. As far as Sprint is concerned, if you do PAM, you are supposed to be charged for it, even for the Treos and 6700's.

    I believe what you are talking about is the PDAnet program that allows Treos and WM phones to do PAM without Sprint know about it. That is an extra $40 program that the "masses" wouldn't know about, that Sprint would consider running against their TOS and if enough people did it, they would certainly be more aggressive about shutting down. So I don't really think it should be touted as a feature or criteria for the purposes of this discussion.
    It's actually a great program/feature. I have used it for years. I don't think hardly anyone would use it enough to cause any issue. I don't. Only when traveling and free wifi isn't available. I tell anyone I know that has the phone about it. Sprint is well aware of PDAnet. Junefabrics is the company that helped Sprint develop their PAM service. I looked at some of the phones you have listed and those aren't anything special. I would pay $50 more for the Centro over those in a heartbeat.
  8. #28  
    It's the 700p/755p basically. Why would anyone expect it to be more stable or do more things?

    Palm basically redid the looks on it to attempt to make it more appealing. Will it work? Sure, it will get me to buy one for the wife. And probably a lot of POS users will look at it.

    Kids? No clue. But things don't look great since Palm decided not to simplify the software that syncs it. But the looks could entice them.

    BTW..all these windows users and POS bashers really need to step back. Windows mobile is a piece of garbage and i wouldn't wish it on anyone i know. Palm, even thought it's old, is still much superior to windows mobile. That's just my opinion. Palm does need to update its OS a bit, but don't mess with what makes it appealing..which is its simplicity.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    Wow! Sounds like you need Windows Mobile my friend. I switched almost 2 years ago.

    BTW, the Centro isn't designed to do anything that current Treos don't do. It's just smaller and cheaper to appeal to the "i like it but it's to big" and the " I like it but it's too expensive" crowd.

    If they release it with WM6 pro they can add me to the "it's small and cheap and I don't lose any functionality" crowd.

    Windows Mobile.... ACK! Well, I tell you what, I'm thinking about switching back. I liked (and still do) the simplicity of the Palm UI. Although I have the credentials, I don't have the time to be hacking and what-not anymore to turn my phone into a can-opener, a garage door opener, or a remote for my BTV setup at home . I moved away from Windows because of the click-happy approach (aka lacking ergonomics). Remember, I want to manage my time better. But if that means making a few more clicks in Windows Mobile vs. copying down a phone number with a pencil and paper, you have a great point. Again, if I could just get the nuances fixed with the next Palm OS and app suite, I would definitely consider another one.

    Having linux as the underlying foundation, with open architecture? Great! I'll hand it over to my 9-year-old to have it be able to program my coffee maker per my mood each morning (with appropriate sensors in the touch screen to detect my mood when I hold it up to my face ).
  10. #30  
    Great post. Yeah, i'm a bit tired of all the tweaking and what not. Now i just want the damn phone to work with ease of use. With 3rd party programs already built in and not have to worry about buying one program for volume..one to sync media, one to adust brightness..one to adjust some other setting.

    Screw that..palm needs to get that kind of tweaking done in their OS from day one. Windows is even worse...
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Great post. Yeah, i'm a bit tired of all the tweaking and what not. Now i just want the damn phone to work with ease of use. With 3rd party programs already built in and not have to worry about buying one program for volume..one to sync media, one to adust brightness..one to adjust some other setting.

    Screw that..palm needs to get that kind of tweaking done in their OS from day one. Windows is even worse...
    You are right on about this. Everyone has their OS preferences but with Palm OS it just seemed like to many 3rd party apps were needed. WM has it's issues too. As far as which takes more clicks I think you get used to which ever you are using. I used to think the Palm OS was easier when I first switched to WM but now when I use my wife's 700p it takes me forever to find my way around it. You adapt to what you use regularly. As for tweaking WM I personally don't use one app that is designed to tweak something that should come standard.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    Everyone has their OS preferences but with Palm OS it just seemed like to many 3rd party apps were needed.
    Well I have the same feeling about WM. WM doesn't even come with an easy-to-use memo/notetaker like PalmOS, nor Global Find, both functions I use constantly, and global Cut/Paste ? Yes there are 3rd party replacements, but... and yes PalmOS needs its 3rd party apps to round out its functionality as well... but one difference is that a greater number of these are free or much lower cost than in the WM world...

    The general Gesalt is that WM is still very much just a program loader with a standard look/GUI thrown on top, not terribly more advanced in concept from its DOS roots, and not an integrated environment, not as integrated as PalmOS. So WM supports standalone apps just fine, but it doesn't really create the feeling of an integrated experience.
    Last edited by neurocutie; 10/01/2007 at 02:13 PM.
  13. #33  
    The real test of the Centro will be, with it's limited memory, is it stable or will it crash constantly. Palm better be sure it's stable, something they've clearly struggles with in Garnet. They sure need a winner, and fast. I worry that if they can't keep more expensive Treos stable with Garnet, how are they going to do so on a cheap phone?
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    ... I worry that if they can't keep more expensive Treos stable with Garnet, how are they going to do so on a cheap phone?
    I've been wondering for a while now why modern Treo's are so unstable... my Samsung i500, a PalmOS 4.x phone is totally solid and stable. It gets (warm/soft) reset perhaps twice a year at most. It just runs and runs. Networking/Vision is solid, email, browsing (slow but solid). Yes if you use some funky 3rd party stuff, you can crash it, but it is easy to avoid that crap and arrive at a very stable yet functional setup. So what is the big difference that causes modern Treos to be so unstable ? Is it the hardware ? Other than the port to ARM, what about Garnet/5.x would make the software unstable ?

    Truly curious... Anybody have a fully functioning, fully used Treo that gets (warm/soft) resets twice a year at most ?
  15. #35  
    It's funny that people talk about individual features that are capable on other more basic phones. Well duh. Of course you can pick apart the features and match them up to the more basic phones. You just can't tie them all together. And why did/does everyone expect this to be new and evolutionary and then pick it apart? It's not supposed to be. They paired it down to the minimal for what they can with this design to try and appeal to new users and maybe a few old before they come out with the next gen. I would like to think with the same basic architecture (I'm sure they streamlined a few things) as the 700 and 755, the third time should be the charm and should be pretty stable. That will be a leap of faith for current treo users who buy into it.

    And yes, neuro knows I too love my i500. It was very stable, solid and built better than any Razr or flip phone out there now save the new Samsungs. But the SMS was extremely limited since Sprint abandoned it. The Calendar and Contacts apps are limited compared to 5.x, and yes it is very slow for most internet functions. But BT, card slot, screen PQ and evdo are the only real upgrades the treo sees over it, and the treo is in it's 4th + generation in its unevolutionary design. That to me is scary, and this Linux Treo better make me drool like every little ipod fanboy did when Apple announced the iphone. If not, the Centro will most likely be my last Palm device ever.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    Truly curious... Anybody have a fully functioning, fully used Treo that gets (warm/soft) resets twice a year at most ?
    Only have had the treo 755p for a couple of months now, but the way things are going now, I wouldn't be surprised at all that the treo 755p reaches this status.
  17. #37  
    I just wonder about the Centro's battery life...
  18. #38  
    me too, amongst other things. why couldn't they get to this form factor before they got to the 680?

    silly Palm....could have helped themselves as opposed to hurt. now they give you the same product in both a large and less large version.

    silly management.....did you not listen to your own users?
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    me too, amongst other things. why couldn't they get to this form factor before they got to the 680?

    silly Palm....could have helped themselves as opposed to hurt. now they give you the same product in both a large and less large version.

    silly management.....did you not listen to your own users?
    And Apple could have sold the iPhone for $200 less from the get-go.

    That's business.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    And Apple could have sold the iPhone for $200 less from the get-go.

    That's business.
    yep, but far from stupid.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
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