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  1.    #1  
    after the MR, has anyone with 700P and Sprint been able to use the bluetooth headset while the 700P is docked?

    I use "Oncourse" docking station in my car when I'm running my Tomtom GPS, and my bluetooth will not pickup if my Treo is docked. It used to work fine before the update.
    Thanks,
    Sam
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by safisam View Post
    after the MR, has anyone with 700P and Sprint been able to use the bluetooth headset while the 700P is docked?

    I use "Oncourse" docking station in my car when I'm running my Tomtom GPS, and my bluetooth will not pickup if my Treo is docked. It used to work fine before the update.
    Thanks,
    Sam
    I'm not familiar with that dock, but I am familiar with the problem so I assume that your dock has a something that plugs into the headset port of the Treo. I've found that if something is plugged into the headset port of a 700p after it the MR has been applied, it will no longer send any calls to the BT headset.

    I have reported this problem to Palm and over the course of many, many calls (and two replace phones that also had the MR applied) I have finally been able to get a "Level 3" support person to duplicate the problem repeatedly. Even more surprising, they seemed to agree that this was a problem because the Hands-free setting clearly says (when checked) that it will route ALL calls to the BT Hands-free device (your BT headset).

    I've been told that the problem has been escalated to "the developers" and I may be getting an update later this week. I'm not expecting much, bu we will see.

    On a related note, I have seen that the 755p has similar problems, but I've also seen reports that one person was able to get things "kind of" working...

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...+wired+headset

    I don't really want to upgrade to a 755p because it won't use my SD cards, but I may need to if that is the only way I can get my Treo to play music/audiobooks on my car stereo and still use my phone (with BT headset) while driving.
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by safisam View Post
    after the MR, has anyone with 700P and Sprint been able to use the bluetooth headset while the 700P is docked?

    I use "Oncourse" docking station in my car when I'm running my Tomtom GPS, and my bluetooth will not pickup if my Treo is docked. It used to work fine before the update.
    Thanks,
    Sam
    BT works fine when I have my 700P in it's cradle.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpuglisi View Post
    BT works fine when I have my 700P in it's cradle.
    Do you have anything plugged into the Audio Port? BT hasn't worked with my 700p in the car cradle from the day I installed the MR 1.1
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpuglisi View Post
    BT works fine when I have my 700P in it's cradle.
    That's not surprising because most cradles don't have an audio plug that inserts into the headphone jack (which is the source of the problem).

    Seidio makes a few types of cradles like this (both car and desktop) because is is the only way to get audio output from the Treo 700p. The 650 sent audio through the charge/sync connector the 700p only sends it out through the headphone port.
  6. #6  
    BTW - I talked to the Palm tech again today to get an update. Nothing really new from the DEV team, but support did report back that they saw the same problem with the Treo 755p (so trying to get around the problem by upgrading to the 755p probably isn't an option).

    I'll try again Friday or early next week and post an update here if I get any news.
  7. #7  
    I seem to recall Palm saying that wired headsets would override BT headsets was the way it was going to be from here forward. I thought I saw that when the issue was brought up with the 755
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by cavingjan View Post
    I seem to recall Palm saying that wired headsets would override BT headsets was the way it was going to be from here forward. I thought I saw that when the issue was brought up with the 755
    I don't know about that, but as I said above I'm currently working with a Palm Level 3 Technician that has duplicated the issue and agrees that it seems to be a problem. He has escalated the issue to Engineering to see if it will be fixed or if there is some magic setting that makes things work correctly. Of course, this was after talking to a half dozen lower-level techs that tried to tell me (without really knowing what I was talking about) that it isn't a bug because "it works the way they made it work" (not very convincing IMO).

    In the end, they may say that they won't fix the problem, but I don't see how they can say it is "working as designed" because the current behavior totally contradicts how the "Hand-free" setting is documented/described when enabled (emphasis in CAPS added by me)...

    "Configure advanced settings for your BLUETOOTH Hands-Free device
    - ALWAYS route calls to Hands-Free
    In this mode, audio is always routed to your Hands-Free device"

    This says ALWAYS, which would clearly mean "even when something is plugged into the headset port".

    I did get one piece of enlightening information about the reason they added this setting in the first place.

    This setting was added so you could DISABLE the automatic routing of calls to your BT headset. It was a respone to people that would forget to turn off their BT headsets and then they couldn't hear or talk to someone when they answered the phone because the call was sent to the BT headset in their pocket or purse.

    This used to happen to me once in a while until I started using the Motorola H700 which automatically turns off when you flip it closed. But at least I can understand why they added the setting. However, it still isn't working correctly because the BT Hands-free setting should still work as described and as it used to work in the 650 and 700p (pre-MR).
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by JAndrews View Post
    However, it still isn't working correctly because the BT Hands-free setting should still work as described and as it used to work in the 650 and 700p (pre-MR).
    But not the way it works on the 755p which is a newer phone. I'm not sure about the 680 and it would be interesting to see about the centro when it comes out. If its on the centro, it would appear to be more of a conscious move to that priority over the old priority scheme and I would expect to carry on with that priority in the future.

    I'd prefer it the old way but I'm not sure we will get it that way.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by cavingjan View Post
    But not the way it works on the 755p which is a newer phone. I'm not sure about the 680 and it would be interesting to see about the centro when it comes out. If its on the centro, it would appear to be more of a conscious move to that priority over the old priority scheme and I would expect to carry on with that priority in the future.

    I'd prefer it the old way but I'm not sure we will get it that way.
    Basically, the bug was introduced in the 755p and they just copied the BT functionality from the 755p for the 700p MR.

    I think there is a good chance they will fix this bug (since there are clear negative side-effects, it contradicts the UI information and I haven't heard any explanation for why the current (buggy) way of working is desirable in any situation when the "Always send calls to Hands-Free" is checked.

    However, my main concern isn't that they won't fix it, but that that they wil fix it in the 755p and/or Centro, but not the 700p.
  11. #11  
    My mind is fuzzy on this but I recall them stating that this was part of the problem with the BT stack and that was why this was changed. But I can't find the thread where that was mentioned.

    Like I said, I prefer the old way but I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it.
  12. #12  
    cavingjan:
    I believe someone said it and you read it, but I think they were just guessing and making excuses without really knowing what they were talking about (which is what I got form several of the techs I talked to). Even if (or especially if) it was someone from Palm that said it.

    I'll keep my fingers crossed that I don't get the same "final answer" from the tech when I call back later this week for an update.
  13. #13  
    I am having the same problem. I have a seidio gps cradle and it has a audio jack. I called seido and they said it wasn't there problem, but off the record they have heard that some people have gotten it to work with some motoralla headsets but they would not give me the info on what particalar headsets. I am anxiousily awaiting the answer you get.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgmassey01 View Post
    I am having the same problem. I have a seidio gps cradle and it has a audio jack. I called seido and they said it wasn't there problem, but off the record they have heard that some people have gotten it to work with some motoralla headsets but they would not give me the info on what particalar headsets. I am anxiousily awaiting the answer you get.
    I've heard of some mixed results where a 755p owner was able to get things working as long as they didn't answer any calls with a wired headset. If they did that, then it all stopped working again. One guy in these forums also mentioned he was able to receive calls on his BT headset when plugged into his car stereo but he couldn't make calls.

    Then again, the Palm Level 3 tech said he couldn't get it working on a 700p or a 755p with a Palm headset and a Motorola headset. I have a Motorola H700 headset and a Palm BT headset and neither of them work with 3 different Treo 700p's (2 of which were hard reset without any apps installed).

    I may try to call tomorrow for an update.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by JAndrews View Post
    I've heard of some mixed results where a 755p owner was able to get things working as long as they didn't answer any calls with a wired headset. If they did that, then it all stopped working again. One guy in these forums also mentioned he was able to receive calls on his BT headset when plugged into his car stereo but he couldn't make calls.

    Then again, the Palm Level 3 tech said he couldn't get it working on a 700p or a 755p with a Palm headset and a Motorola headset. I have a Motorola H700 headset and a Palm BT headset and neither of them work with 3 different Treo 700p's (2 of which were hard reset without any apps installed).

    I may try to call tomorrow for an update.
    I have had the same (negative) results with 4-5 different headsets and a clean re-set 700p.

    BTW, nobody has mentioned that if the bluetooth headset doesn't answer the call, and you have to take it out of the cradle, you no longer have a handsfree phone, and could be violating the law in some states.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnhboyd View Post
    I have had the same (negative) results with 4-5 different headsets and a clean re-set 700p.

    BTW, nobody has mentioned that if the bluetooth headset doesn't answer the call, and you have to take it out of the cradle, you no longer have a handsfree phone, and could be violating the law in some states.
    I just got off the phone with Palm. The tech I talked to last time (who duplicated the problem) wasn't working today so another guy (non-technical) spent some time discussing the issue with me. He didn't have a Treo to test with and didn't really understand the issue, so he spent much of the call (like many of the calls I've been on) disputing the fact that it was a bug even though he didn't really know anything about the new Hands-free setting, how things worked with the 650 and 700p prior to the MR, or much of anything else about how the Treo 700p works or used to work.

    After about 20 minutes of non-productive discussion, he scheduled me for a follow-up call tomorrow morning with the original technician. They have weekly meetings with the engineers (glad to hear it!) and the next meeting is tomorrow afternoon, so hopefully "my guy" will be able to push them for a clear response on the issue (which they have managed to ignore for the 2+ weeks since it was first escalated to them) and get back to me later this week.
  17. #17  
    Well, the advance notice for the updated update says it will address this issue, so I will keep my fingers crossed
  18. #18  
    Just saw that...for those that didn't, here is the link to the updated Palm page:
    http://www.palm.com/us/support/downl...mh=dm13.145553

    And here is the link to the related thread in these forms:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=152874

    It looks like the Sprint 700p updates hasn't actually been updated (still says 1.10 and shows the original release date) so I think I'll wait until I hear back from the Palm people.

    Here's the relevant text from the Palm page:

    Bluetooth® wireless technology enhancements:

    • Increases list of supported/compatible Bluetooth wireless carkits, including BMW and Toyota/Lexus (Denso)
    • Improves overall user experience with supported Bluetooth wireless carkits and headsets (e.g. allow user to manually connect / disconnect to a Bluetooth device)
    • Additional Bluetooth wireless functionality (e.g. audio routing to Bluetooth headset even when wired headset is plugged in)


    It's the last bullet that sounds like it fixes our bug, but I love the way they try to spin this as a new feature: "Additional Bluetooth wireless functionailty"

    ADDITIONAL functionality? Yeah, sure.

    That's like someone getting caught taking $10 from your wallet and then acting like he's "giving" you $10 instead of returning what he took.
  19. #19  
    Today's update...I talked to the tech again:

    - He brought this issue up for discussion at the last 2 meetings and will bring it up again today. So far Engineering hasn't had a response.

    - The "updated MR" information was premature and is probably specific to a possibly upcoming Verizon MR (not Sprint). He admitted it was confusing because the same "what's new in the MR" page is shown for both Sprint and Verizon even though they aren't (or probably won't be) the same.

    - No word on the possibility of an updated Sprint MR. (From what I can tell, there obviously needs to be a new Verizon MR since it was pulled due to the network errors and this BT fix could likely be included. But since the Sprint MR is still available, there may not be any bugs fixed for Sprint that are big enough to trigger a new MR for Sprint)

    I'm hoping for another update tomorrow. I believe the technician understands the issue and is trying to see that it gets fixed, but he is pretty limited in what he can do to influence priorities. But if they fix this in a new Verizon MR then I see that as an admission that it should be fixed in the other Treo models (Sprint 700p and 755p)...assuming they ever release another update for those models.
  20. #20  
    cavingjan:
    Well, it appears you were right...unfortunately.

    I've been told that the "maintenance engineers" who are responsible for making the changes for the maintenace releases are sticking to their position that "the change to have the wired headset ALWAYS override the bluetooth headset was intentional, was made to address safety concerns, and will not be changed".

    However, those same engineers have also (so far) been unable to describe what these "safety concerns" are that are supposedly addressed by the new behavior. I suspect the reason they can't provide this information is because the new behavior is really an unintended side-effect of other intentional changes and they don't want to (or can't) figure out a way to get the intentitional changes they want without introducing the unintentional side effects.

    I haven't completely given up yet and have asked the Palm reps to go back to the engineers one last time and ask them to provide an explanation for why the new behavior is intentional (what problem does it solve?) and why they feel that this is the way it should be given that the consequences introduce new risk factors.

    If the engineers can provide a reasonable explanation for why new behavior is better than the old behavior, I still won't be able to use my Treo like I used to, but at least I'll know that Palm engineers are doing their best to satisfy a variety of requirements, some of which require tough decisions and compromises.

    But right now the engineers seem to be saying that the new behavior is "correct" even though:
    - It breaks functionality that had been working for years
    - It makes the device incompatible with some third-party accessories
    - It makes the phone more dangerous to use while driving
    - The new behavior contradicts the "new feature" documented on the Palm web site (soon to be deleted from the web site I've been told)
    - The new behavior contradicts the "Hands-Free Preferences" setting
    - There is no known problem that has been communited to users that this new behavior solves

    At this point, I'm not really expecting Palm to provide a fix for the Sprint 700p even if they were willing to admit this is a bug or undesirable behavior. It is pretty clear that based on the number of users complaining about this issue, they don't consider it a major enough problem to trigger a new MR for the Sprint Treo 700p. But if I can at least get them to admit this is incorrect (or at least undesirable) behavior then I believe there is a slim chance that this may be fixed in the Treo 755p and/or a future Treo product.


    And to be honest, I can understand that there may be valid business decisions for not doing a new Sprint MR if there are only a few minor issues and no critical issues because the cost and time to releas a MR is not trivial.

    As far as whether this issue will be fixed in a possibly upcoming Verizon MR re-release, based on the web site it sounds like there is a chance it was fixed. But based on what I'm being told, there is no chance it will be fixed because the engineers refuse to admit that it is a problem and are claiming it is a change that has already been approved by anyone that might be able to tell them to change it back. Nobody I've talked to has been able to get access to the upcoming Verizon MR re-release yet, so they haven't been able to determine if it fixes this issue or not.

    Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to provide as much information as I could for those that run into this issue in the future and might think, like I did, that "Maybe the problem just hasn't been explained clearly enough to the people at Palm. If they understood the problem, they would fix it because it would be obvious that the new behavior is incorrect for so many reasons". I've now talked to many people at Palm, all of them very courteous, nearly all of them with a real desire to help resolve my concerns.

    But when it is all said and done, it appears that they really do understand...and they still won't be fixing this problem in the Sprint Treo 700p and most likely any other current Treo (since they are still saying it is an intentional change and not a "problem").

    Sucks to be us.
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