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  1.    #1  
    Welp I just spent the last 30 minutes doing filing a complaint with the BBB online which based my complaint out of the San Jose area.

    I stated the issues that we as a community have faced not only with the Sprint Crowd but also with the Verizon Crowd. I drafted my complaint as a unilateral 700p community. They give you 4000 characters to type the complaint and I have used all of it. They also ask what you are seeking and ask you to type what you seek. I stated what I would personally want which is some type of monetary refund (which we know won't happen). But I phrased my response as to what "WE" would want.

    ________________________________________________
    This is what I wrote in "Desired Resolution":


    I personally would like to get some time of Monetary compensation for this and not towards another Palm Product especially since the device is not even a year old and given that I have worse issues with the replacement than the original brand new out of the box product.

    But for the general public this is what I seek:

    A public apology from Palm Inc to all their customers affected by these issues.

    To increase their Quality Assurance to better release products.

    Some type of FREE trade up program to their next device specifically for people who are on "Their seventh device".

    Increase their customer service skills.

    A working device?

    More active participation with their userbase. Listen to their customers and maybe work with us. Some of us would love to work with Palm to iron out the issues.


    I not only speak for myself but I speak on behalf of hundreds of owners of this device. Many of us have wasted hundreds of dollars on this device and accessories for it as well as software. Moreover many of us have wasted time either trying to get the device to work properly. Or we have lost time trying to work with our respective carries (Sprint/Verizon) and also calling Palm Inc for technical support on these issues.


    Essentially I/WE expect a product that works.


    ________________________________________________

    Now before the flame wars begin allow me to explain myself. Like many of you I've grown tired of the issues surrounding this phone. I figured it was time to take a stand for my rights as a individual. I'm not out there throwing bottle rockets, hate mails or anything of the store. I figured use the tools available to the citizens to get your voice heard. I'm not asking to incite a riot but I definitely recommend writing to who it matters. I figured the BBB would be the best way. I like their arbitrary system as far as what has to be done when filing complaints. After filing my complaint I feel way the hell better and less frustrated with the Treo 700P. I am just tired of flaming Treo even though I sorta like their products. Great on paper but

    Only time and Stock Prices will tell.


    If Mods feel this is a bit hashed or consider this flaming please feel free to remove or move this to the appropriate forum.
    Last edited by ncc1701p; 08/07/2007 at 12:54 PM. Reason: This was Edited for Spartaaaaaaaa
  2. #2  
    This isn't flaming at all, it's you sticking up for your rights as a consumer. You have my support, and I wish more Treo 700p owners did this, contacted their local consumer reporters, and just raised all h*ll for Palm. That's the only way to get them to listen, because you know what? Your hard earned dollars spent on the 700p went to Palm supporting their Windows Mobile and developing the Folio while ignoring you as a customer. Now they have released a maintenance release to your phone that has rendered it defective -- THEY HAVE DAMAGED YOUR PROPERTY and you are entitled to compensation.
  3. Theta's Avatar
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    #3  
    ncc1701p;

    I think your taking the initiative, and filing a complain with the BBB is a very responsible and mature solution to the ongoing problem surrounding Palm and the Treo 700p.

    The 700p waited a year for resolutions to fix problems that were inherent with the design at release. These problems made the device unable to perform all the functions advertised by both Palm, and the respective wireless providers.

    When the resolution finally arrived, it created new problems, rendering the wireless data connection essentially worthless as far as reliability is concerned. The higher speed data connection was certainly the biggest reason many people upgraded from the Treo 650.

    I applaud your efforts, and plan on filing a similar complaint,and will encourage the other three Treo 700p users in my close family.
    Forensic Scientist

  4.    #4  
    Theta: thanks for the kind words.

    This is what i wrote as far as my complaint I omitted my Information for they ask the date of the order, order #, dollar amounts, specific personal information:

    ________________________________

    The complaint is that the phone brand new out of the box has never functioned close to 100% of its advertised function. The phone freezes, and has had many software issues that caused resets almost daily. I have scaled down the software I installed on this device to the point where the issues continued. Palm has initially been working on what is called a Maintenance Release (MR)for the 700P for Sprint and Verizon. Initially the Sprint MR was released and it has caused a massive failure in phones. The Sprint users installed it and have rendered their phone inoperable to the point Sprint and Palm have had to issue replacements (we tend to use the term Bricking). Palm quickley pulled the MR and worked on it more where it was re-released and didn't brick anymore phones. After this update its been reported instead of fixing the issues with the phone it has also created more. The biggest issue people complain about is the data connectivity with these devices. For many its rendered the phone much worse than originally thought the MR would help. These days people who are attempting to stay with this phone are trying to get the phone with an older firmware revision on it. For many of us this MR has not only made our data connections non-functional but it has also decreased performance with the Bluetooth capability of this device. For some the device still freezes (or lags), voice quality is less than acceptable, or the device does not function properly with some of our hardware that we've been using since before the update. I have played by their rules by soft resetting, hard resetting and yet with absolutely one phone number in my device it still does not function.

    A big source of information of complaints can be found at the following websites:

    www.treocentral.com (Discussion 700p)
    www.mytreo.net (Forum Treo 700p)

    Now the biggest issue for me and the rest of us who have the phone is that we believe Palm Inc does not come outright to help this community of users. During the time of the release of the phone which is is around Spring of 2006. Palm has not done anything to help fix these issues. Instead they have continued to develop other potentially faulty products: Treos 750, 755p, 700w, 700wx, 680 and their latest product the Foleo. Also during this period as time went on software updates and fixes have come out rather quickley for newer products (when I say newer its less than 1 year old) while the Treo 700P users have waited and waited. They have devoted very little time and resource on fixing this customer base.

    Even Palm has created a community blog where they keep us updated on their latest happening. I reference: http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/07/maintenance-rel.html where they give the update for the 700p on the verizon network. In there you can read on Palm's own website users have voiced their displeasurement with what the MR has done to their phones.

    To be amicable about it Verizon Wireless has been very diligent in solving my issues. They have really pulled out their customer service skills on attempting to help. I do not want to go to a third product replacement to fix my problem.

    Aside from not buying Palm Products many of us are at a loss of what to do. We have complained, emailed, called and yet our voices are not heard. Some of us still have faith in Palm but we feel very ignored.

    "Sucess comes from listening, Ive never learned anything by talking" Lou Holtz

    BBB can you help?
    ______________________________________
    Last edited by ncc1701p; 08/07/2007 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Spartaaaaaans Prepare for Glory
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ncc1701p View Post
    Welp I just spent the last 30 minutes doing filing a complaint with the BBB online which based my complaint out of the San Jose area.

    I stated the issues that we as a community have faced not only with the Sprint Crowd but also with the Verizon Crowd. I drafted my complaint as a unilateral 700p community. They give you 4000 characters to type the complaint and I have used all of it. They also ask what you are seeking and ask you to type what you seek. I stated what I would personally want which is some type of monetary refund (which we know won't happen). But I phrased my response as to what "WE" would want.
    I do not want start a flame war or anything, and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you or your BBB filing...

    Just be careful when talking on behalf of the community without suggesting it first. We don't want something like that stupid iPhone Battery lawsuit where one person didn't like the fact that the iPhone had a non-user-replaceable battery with 400 life cycles (I believe that Palm has done this for the last decade with their handhelds) but decided to file on behalf of all iPhone users.

    I am just glad you didn't suggest a sit in or something like that.
    Last edited by dkirker; 08/07/2007 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Trying to better word/word carefully
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  6.    #6  
    Hi dkirker ,

    No No.. not telling everyone to do something bad. Just let your voice be heard. I want a working Treo that does what its suppose to. Id be just as angry if I got a BMW with less than 1000 miles that doesnt go past 55 MPH.
    I Just got sick and tired of watching lots of people being very disgruntled and then joining that crowd. Right now personally I just want some compensation back. But if Palm really wanted to step up to the plate they would not only fix/compensate me but then address the other people who has a complaint. In my wife's hospital they are striving for 100% customer satisfaction. One has got to wonder what Palm strives for. I've been a palm Loyalist for 7 years and I've praised and recommended their products. I honestly felt very cheated with how things have been handled. As SonnyS said " Your hard earned dollars spent on the 700p went to Palm supporting their Windows Mobile and developing the Folio while ignoring you as a customer."

    I feel extremely ignored and not to act like the lady in Fatal Attraction "I'm not going to be ignored" any longer. Of course I won't boil bunnies in their kitchen

    Yes I may have acted a little bit on behalf of a community out of spite but I got tired of sitting and waiting and being crushed. I just hope that others would rise to voice their opinion.

    Isn't that how the American revolution started?
  7. #7  
    The BBB is more suited to policing companies on the retail level. If we're going after Palm, complaining to the Federal Trade Commission or possibly the FCC might be a better route.
  8. #8  
    @ ncc1701p:
    You definitely speak for me in your effort to represent the community.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    I do not want start a flame war or anything, and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you or your BBB filing...

    Just be careful when talking on behalf of the community without suggesting it first. We don't want something like that stupid iPhone Battery lawsuit where one person didn't like the fact that the iPhone had a non-user-replaceable battery with 400 life cycles (I believe that Palm has done this for the last decade with their handhelds) but decided to file on behalf of all iPhone users.

    I am just glad you didn't suggest a sit in or something like that.
    I can pretty much bet my paycheck that more than a few people in this community would back up this complaint. This device is advertised to do certain things out-the-box for a very expensive price tag. It is not living up to many of those claims and we are subjected to using third party software (and some hacks) to make them operational. This is completely UNACCEPTABLE and most people here would agree.

    What I find strange is Palm is very aware of sites like this one and I'm sure there may be a few Palm employed members here but they refuse to listen to these complaints or even act on some of the suggestions by community members. What I've noticed from my years as a member of the TC community is that these are some of the most intelligent and tech savvy people i've ever seen. The work-arounds, ideas, hacks and general Treo common sense are amazing. If I had any say so at Palm, I would require their employees to study these forums for not only support but the general pulse of the Treo user community. It's a shame they don't use sites like this as a valuable "resource".

    I support ncc1701p claim 110%. I will also file a claim with the BBB, not as a flame, but as a voice of concern for a device that SHOULD work and SHOULD have adequate support. Hopefully someone will listen. Like Kevin Spacey said in the movie Seven, "These days you can't get people's attention just by simply tapping them on the shoulder. Sometimes you got to hit them it the head with a sledge hammer". This complaint might be the sledge hammer we need...
  10. #10  
    My brother is a lawyer and i tried to discuss a class action suit but he wasn't interested. I think the best action would be a simple petition type letter similar to your BBB complaint followed by a list of our names, serial #, and abbreviation for each problem suffered. This should be sent to Palm, their major shareholders, and financial news outlets. Unless the full extent of the problem is in the open Verizon and Palm with continue to play dumb and continue to push the issue under the rug.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by DJSloan View Post
    My brother is a lawyer and i tried to discuss a class action suit but he wasn't interested. I think the best action would be a simple petition type letter similar to your BBB complaint followed by a list of our names, serial #, and abbreviation for each problem suffered. This should be sent to Palm, their major shareholders, and financial news outlets. Unless the full extent of the problem is in the open Verizon and Palm with continue to play dumb and continue to push the issue under the rug.
    Why don't you go and spearhead that petition letter for us. I know i will follow through with it and i will also research any class action info i can find.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by goalie30 View Post
    The BBB is more suited to policing companies on the retail level. If we're going after Palm, complaining to the Federal Trade Commission or possibly the FCC might be a better route.
    What about the Attourney General ? Ive been looking at that too but not sure on how to do that. I'm no mean a law-man but I figured the BBB would be a good step.


    I also have considered petitiononline.org but you know what. Those things hold about a quarter weight compared to a formal complaint through a third party entity. To me thats a step below www.savedanieljackson.com (for you SG-1 folks). Anyone can sit and sign a signature online but what I did took me 30 minutes of my time which would carry some weight.

    To DJSloan:

    I have friends and family members who are lawyers and I am in discussion not to launch some nationwide class action lawsuit but just to seek legal advice as to do DO's and DONT's. Be Civil and be sensabile they say and don't do anything rash because the moment you do, Its Over. Sound and logical words.

    As time goes one I will be in contact with the BBB to see how its going and what stages my complaint is at. I just reallly hope that this time DOING instead of just TALKING will get something out of Palm. I'm not out to destroy them but

    "I just want a working device". -ncc1701p
  13. #13  
    I don't mean to bring this down but I don't think it will help. Sprint is unwilling to do anything for the consumer except for the lucky people who get 755's for free because they are "VIP" customers. It is a corrupt company and unless there is a major lawsuit taken up to Supreme Court level they "aint' gonna do jack" I sent them a letter and they didn't even respond at all. For a company do act like this IS criminal.
  14.    #14  
    Well You never know until you try. This is the first time in my life I've ever done anything like this. It could get quashed, you maybe right. But without trying one will never know. I recall a great Braveheart quote which I don't want to type out. In my opinion and I'm sure most would agree its mostly a Palm fault. Yes the carriers do have a little bit of a hand in this because they are involved. Imagine if you had your BMW that would bump and ricket while driving on a non-paved decent road. Do you go after BMW or do you go after the city/county/state who's responsible for the maintenance of the road. In this situation it was Palm who made the phone. Sprint/Verizon provides the service. As far as my situation I am working with Verizon and not once uttered extreme anger on the phone with them. They've been very good with assisting me with the situation. But you gotta admit, after the MR for both Sprint and Verizon you got gotta wonder who's fault is it more. You're a sprint customer, did you brick your phone? What were your thoughts on the other sprint people bricking their phones or starting to get the infamous error 3000.

    I could attempt to getting a refurbed phone so often until I am blue in the face. its a good way to drive the bottom line and stock down. But if you've read many posts you could almost put up a poll and ask how many times have you had your treo 700p replaced. One guy in here was at SEVEN. I'm only on phone number two.

    FYI I work for a fortune 500 company (under the 150 mark) who uses Verizon, Sprint, Cingular/ATT. I could use leverage with our reps but this isn't a carrier problem its a manufacturing problem.
  15. #15  
    This is a great idea, ncc1701p.

    As for me, when my current contract expires, my business and I will likely be switching to AT&T and purchasing iPhones, which come with a passable calendar. As a Mac user, the iPhone simply makes sense as a purchase decision for me. Apple has excellent customer support. As much as I like Verizon and their customer service, they don't have the iPhone.

    Buh-bye Palm!
    Palm IIIx>Palm Vx>Palm m515>Tungsten T>Tungsten C>Verizon Treo 650
    ................................StarTAC 7868W>Motorola V710>Verizon Treo 650>Treo 700p>Apple iPhone 3G
  16.    #16  
    Looking at my complaint online this is what i saw which caught my eye:

    Business Info
    NAME: Palm, Inc

    BBB MEMBER: NO

    Lucky them.
  17. noodle's Avatar
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    #17  
    Here Here! Wonderful work! Now everyone else should follow in the OP's footsteps! Palm should be held accountable for the crap they have been putting us through. Count me in!
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    noodlelest wet noodler
  18.    #18  
    The case has been reviewed and has now been forwarded to the business for their response. This business has until August 22, 2007 to respond to your complaint. You may contact our office after August 22, 2007 to check the status of your complaint.

    Works for me.
    In this game of tennis I now lob the ball into your court sirs (Palm).
  19. #19  
    This should be very interesting
  20. #20  
    +1
    Palm IIIx>Palm Vx>Palm m515>Tungsten T>Tungsten C>Verizon Treo 650
    ................................StarTAC 7868W>Motorola V710>Verizon Treo 650>Treo 700p>Apple iPhone 3G
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