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  1.    #1  
    Did a quick search, and did not come across this anywhere else.

    I have found something new that I have not seen posted before.

    IN BRIEF:
    It seems that when exiting programs, the Treo 680 continuosly runs the program - even when the Treo is turned off (i.e. in the standard "standby mode").

    This is akin to the problem solved with the Camera patch from what I can gather.

    SPECIFICALLY :
    - I noticed after exiting the standard Solitaire game provided by Palm, and then opening the application later - the minutes would run up to 200 minutes elapsed within the program etc. What this tells me, is that the program has been "running" in the background.

    -it seems that one of the problems is that I was "exiting" the program by pressing the power button (red button) - but this did not really exit the program.

    -the program really only exited when I hit the home button AND THEN the power on/off button

    -another possiblity (that I have not looked at closely) - is that when receiving a call, while in another application (such as a game like solitaire) - this does not exit the program properly, and keeps the program running in the background

    -I have seen this same phenomenon with TomTom Navigator 5.x

    -this phenomenon has also been described (albeit not exactly similar) by DIG when a call ends. In that case, he stated it is better to hit the on/off/hang up button to end a call rather than let the call "end itself" - because the Treo continues to drain

    CONCLUSION:
    Basically, I think the Treo 680 does not know how to "turn off" even though we all think we are turning it off. I believe that this is related to the camera patch problem - but in this case, Palm provided an internal work-around

    My suggestion is : instead of turning the power off within a program.... first , HIT THE HOME BUTTON THEN hit the power on/off/hang up button

    I know this is bordering on Voodoo....and soon we will be putting sacrificial chickens and smoke stacks in a circle around our 680's to get better battery life... but I think this really is where one of the major culprits are with respect to the battery drain issues.

    -alf

    ps: never had these problems on my 650. And, for the record, I am not using an email, internet, or im chat programs


    ps: PLEASE COMMENT !
    Last edited by alpinadvl; 06/19/2007 at 08:44 AM.
  2. #2  
    I think you may be right, and it's not bordering on Voodoo. But I have found that the chickens do help a bit, but the home button probably has a larger effect.
  3. #3  
    Are the apps truly running with the screen off or when you turn the device back on does the software just calculate time in progress based on start time, which could be 2 days ago? Maybe its not really running, but just restarting at the point exited and recalculating info based on date / time.

    Although, last week I had an incident on my 680, where the battery drained like crazy, even on the charger it hardly increased. After a reset I've not seen it again. I have the new update installed and all. Not happening now. Who knows.
    Patrick Horne
  4. #4  
    i dont seem to have any of these issues on my unlocked 680. i'm switching today and hope the ATT 680 isn't a lemon..
  5. #5  
    That is the way palms have always operated. Program A runs until program B is called. Turning off the palm only shuts down the display. Unless the battery is pulled, the current program will keep running.
    --
    Visor Deluxe > Visor Platinum > Visor Pro > Treo 180 > Treo 270 > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 680 > Palm Pre > EVO 4G
  6. #6  
    Some programs intentionally have timers in them, and thus will continue running. Countdown alarms, some games, etc.

    I think you've found one example of this and you're running with it. I doubt that your 'discovery' has anything related to the Camera bug, which was likely a problem with shutting the camera down, not the application.
  7.    #7  
    All good points....

    but I can't get past this feeling that there is an inherent problem with task (and therefore battery) allocation in the Treo 680.

    I am going to echo what LiveFaith said above, that there are times where I bet everyone reading this has done some repeated task, and noted that the battery drained more than at other times.

    Is it possible that the phone wasn;t put into a static state properly? and the phone just kept processing things in the background?

    The camera bug is not the same thing I agree... but it all points to the Treo 680 not properly managing or disengaging itself from a process and therefore causing a significant battery drain.

    The Solitaire game is not the only isolated issue. But I believe these problems of Program "A" remaining "on" until the Treo is switched to "Program B" never resulted in such a significant power drain on the 650 (granted the bigger battery etc...)
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    #8  
    I noticed that my timer on Solitaire stops and then continues on when I turn it back on -- until the game ends. So no running-away problem there. But I will be looking to see if there are other problems, now that you brought this up.
    Handspring Visor 2mb; Visor Prism; Palm i705; Tungsten2; VZW Treo650; TMO Crimson Treo680; iPhone 3g on TMO edge
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by alpinadvl View Post
    Is it possible that the phone wasn;t put into a static state properly? and the phone just kept processing things in the background?
    On the other side of the coin, you should perhaps consider that it's a piece of software you have installed which wasn't coded properly and has caused this issue globally.
  10. #10  
    I have noted that if I shut off the screen while playing Bejeweled 2 and come back later, a lot of battery has drained compared to leaving it on the launcher screen.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by alpinadvl View Post
    All good points....

    Is it possible that the phone wasn;t put into a static state properly? and the phone just kept processing things in the background?
    This may be an important observation for folks with battery drain issues, (whether it is expected/intentional or not!), because if you know it is happening, you can do something about it. Good on you for trying to bring people's attention to it! Can I suggest that the first thing you should do is install battery.prc and look at the battery consumption when this problem is, and is not, happening. You could make sure it is not happening by checking drain after a soft reset, then switch on, then off, one of the problematic applications and check again. When working properly, the battery.prc graph should show lots of peaks and troughs over a period of 10 minutes or so, but the troughs should go down below 10mAh. If, after running one of the applications, the drain does not drop below 10mAh, (maybe stays up at 30mAh) then you have a clear measure of the problem.
  12. #12  
    alp...
    The Palm OS is not a multitasking system. It can only run one program at a time. Khaytsus has it right when he says that programs have timers. They are using the clock in the device. There was, in fact, a battery drain problem in the phone and in the camera prior to the recent update, but they were both hardware/driver related and were solved in firmware update. If you close a game and reopen it, it will start where you left off. This doesn't mean that it has been using CPU cycles during that time. It only means that the app was coded to remember its last state. You could get "clinical" and close the suspect program, wait a day and check battery remaining, then the next day, perform an alternate close (like you discuss above) and check the battery again. I'd wager they'll be pretty close. It's tough to control the use long enough to run a legit test, but you can't go by "feel" which is what most of us do. If you get different results, let us know.
  13. #13  
    howdy insidr.
    You said that the phone induced drain (presumably you are referring to the problem also known as the Glen phenomenon?) has been fixed with the firmware upgrade. Are you sure? I havent seen any reports of this.

    No need to get very clinical, and no need to wait a day. Battery prc can tell you the standby drain rate in a matter of minutes (registered as mAh). I trust graphs more than feelings, but thats just me. I reckon it is easy to do and therefore worth a check if alpy wants to see if he is right or wrong...
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    howdy insidr.
    You said that the phone induced drain (presumably you are referring to the problem also known as the Glen phenomenon?) has been fixed with the firmware upgrade. Are you sure? I havent seen any reports of this.

    No need to get very clinical, and no need to wait a day. Battery prc can tell you the standby drain rate in a matter of minutes (registered as mAh). I trust graphs more than feelings, but thats just me. I reckon it is easy to do and therefore worth a check if alpy wants to see if he is right or wrong...
    I wish I could remember the name of the phenomenon, but some years ago a scientist recorded the effects of observing participants in a study. He detailed how the participants behavior is altered by merely observing them.

    Battery.prc is very much like that.
  15. #15  
    Heh heh, fair point. I think you might be talking about 'the observer effect'...where taking measurements altered the measure. You are right to some extent. battery.prc (and probably any program to measure the battery) will cost some power. However, when used without the polling every second function, it does show a reproducible trough of below 10mAh when all is well with the 680. I have seen it very clearly indicate when the Glen phenomenon strikes, because the baseline wont go below 30mAh. It may be an overestimate because of 'the observer effect' but it is still a useful measure.
  16. #16  
    I really love my 650 with the 2400 battery. I bought a 680 from Rogers yesterday but the battery drain issue is killling me.

    I'm doing that silly battery-out-charge thing right now in the background but in the meantime I went back to my 650.

    Although there is a patch for the ATT 680's (ROM) there isn't one I can find for the Rogers ones other then the Camera patch which didn't help.

    Anyone else here have any input or know if/when the Rogers patch should be put up?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by georgekessel View Post
    I really love my 650 with the 2400 battery. I bought a 680 from Rogers yesterday but the battery drain issue is killling me.

    I'm doing that silly battery-out-charge thing right now in the background but in the meantime I went back to my 650.

    Although there is a patch for the ATT 680's (ROM) there isn't one I can find for the Rogers ones other then the Camera patch which didn't help.

    Anyone else here have any input or know if/when the Rogers patch should be put up?
    Have a read of the DIGs top 4 tips thread for how to improve the battery life. The battery-out-charge thing is silly as you say, but a battery meter calibration is worth the effort.
  18. #18  
    Where can I find that top 4 thread?

    I have read the post on Treocentral about turning off the beam receive, turning down the backlight, shortening the light time, using bluetooth only when necessary but that's it that I know of.

    WTF on them not putting up a ROM patch for models other then ATT?
  19. #19  
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=138463

    Post 1 has the tips. It is a little outdated now in terms of the patches that are available (tip 2), but the meter calibration step, and the other info may still be useful.

    Yes, IR beam receive, BT, and backlight will drain the battery at a higher rate, so if you dont need them on all the time, turning these off (or down in case of backlight) will make a big difference.
  20. #20  
    Thank you DIG!

    I'm also going to try Custom Rom #8 to see if that helps before I give up on this 680.
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