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  1. bbtkd's Avatar
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       #1  
    OK - if you look at what happened, there is a simple explanation. I have to believe that they tested the crap out of it and really felt they had it ready. Then at the last minute they decided to change the installer but did not test it extensively. Their comment that it was pulled due to the installer may be very accurate. Sure looks like something in the installer exhibits random memory corruption which in some cases is harmless (falling in an unused area or an area that is volatile anyway), in some cases causes bricking or loops, and in many others breaks specific functionality. This is why there are seemingly an unlimited number of outcomes to the MR. Call me a Polyanna, but I feel that when they come back out with it, it will be nearly flawless except for the actual bugs that everyone sees, such as not being able to turn off sounds. They read this forum and see some of these actual bugs being reported, so they SHOULD fix these while they are at it - and then of course they need to rush a retest.

    I would advise them not to change something so important at the last minute, after testing, you would think they would have known this. I would also advise them to pick a few key critics and fanboys from the forums and invite them to help test. That would go a long way to show that they care what users think.
  2. haroldo's Avatar
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    #2  
    I hope so, but it seems like the successful installations fixed the problems only 50% of the time. If they read these forums, hopefully they will see that the fix is only marginally effective. (I am a VZW user so I can only sit on the sidelines and watch others writhing in pain from the update)
  3. #3  
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbtkd View Post
    OK - if you look at what happened, there is a simple explanation. I have to believe that they tested the crap out of it and really felt they had it ready. Then at the last minute they decided to change the installer but did not test it extensively. Their comment that it was pulled due to the installer may be very accurate. Sure looks like something in the installer exhibits random memory corruption which in some cases is harmless (falling in an unused area or an area that is volatile anyway), in some cases causes bricking or loops, and in many others breaks specific functionality. This is why there are seemingly an unlimited number of outcomes to the MR. Call me a Polyanna, but I feel that when they come back out with it, it will be nearly flawless except for the actual bugs that everyone sees, such as not being able to turn off sounds. They read this forum and see some of these actual bugs being reported, so they SHOULD fix these while they are at it - and then of course they need to rush a retest.

    I would advise them not to change something so important at the last minute, after testing, you would think they would have known this. I would also advise them to pick a few key critics and fanboys from the forums and invite them to help test. That would go a long way to show that they care what users think.

    the problem is that they do not care that much! Palm has released defective phones and continues to release defected phones. They had a year to fix the 755p and it still has some lag. Of course Steve S. said in Dec that the lag was inherent to the hardware design of the phone. Yes a very sleek looking phone. They need to hire a design expert on the next treos, those are so ugly.
  5. #5  
    This goes beyond the installer. It gave my Treo problems it never had before.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    the problem is that they do not care that much! Palm has released defective phones and continues to release defected phones. They had a year to fix the 755p and it still has some lag. Of course Steve S. said in Dec that the lag was inherent to the hardware design of the phone. Yes a very sleek looking phone. They need to hire a design expert on the next treos, those are so ugly.
    It's not just Palm. Look at Motorola and the Q. That thing is total junk and full of bugs which will never be fixed. They are just going to release a new Q in the fall that will fix some of the bugs and introduce a few new ones. Par for the course.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbtkd View Post
    Call me a Polyanna, but I feel that when they come back out with it, it will be nearly flawless except for the actual bugs that everyone sees, such as not being able to turn off sounds. They read this forum and see some of these actual bugs being reported, so they SHOULD fix these while they are at it - and then of course they need to rush a retest.
    Polyanna
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  8. #8  
    I doubt it will be coming back out... I think given how much this thing just cost everyone involved, Palm may simply be hoping at this point that the existing 700p user base (what's left of them at this point) forgive and forget and move on to their latest and greatest thing. BTW, I was actually able to update via SD just fine and my 700p has been working very well since, but I can't ignore just how big of a mess this has turned into due to the way in which is was executed.

    This will have far reaching consequences for Palm I fear; both in how they are perceived by their users and also in how they will approach these sorts of situations in the future. I'm guessing from Palm's perspective their attempt and 'openess' has ended up having some very negative consequences for them. Maybe this is why the blog has been silent as of late as the upper management now performs an audit of how they could have screwed up so badly and executed so poorly.

    I have a feeling that the end result of this will be Palm not offering these sorts of MRs as a matter of policy in the future (like a lot of the other companies that seem to be flash update stingy these days). It is just too risky for them. Unfortunately all of this is the "wrong" conclusion to come too as the real issue was not the "openess" but rather their inability to deliver, I have a feeling that the whole openness movement will end up being their scapegoat as to what went wrong. They will (rightfully) wonder if they would have simply been better off never having acknowledged the 700ps issues or committing to fix them in the first place, instead moving on and focusing on future projects.
  9. bbtkd's Avatar
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       #9  
    Not sure they have abandoned the MR just yet, but they have to know that if they screw it up again then they're toast. Many who are in a position to, have already jumped ship.

    I wonder if they're looking to the next generation phone running Linux to make things right - the Linux based 800P with POS running on top of it? That would mean a more stable phone due to memory protection, multitasking, and the underlying Linux OS should not require many patches. Patches for the POS-like apps would be easier since most would not muck with the phone app. The main problem with the POS phones is lack of memory protection and lack of multitasking.

    The big question then is, how do folks that have 18 months left on contract get to a stable phone? This could be costly, but it is time that they threw us all a bone in the form of the 755P.
  10. #10  
    I have to agree with ajabbari on this one, the MR is unlikely be released again for Sprint or Verizon; this has cost much in replacement and embarasement for Palm and Sprint.

    Many on the user community that followed Palm over the years have lost faith on Palm's ability to deliver. I was looking forward to the upcoming Linux/Palm OS platform, now I have serious doubt on Palm's ability to deliver a functional device; I have no plans of buying another Palm branded device in the near future.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  11. #11  
    There's no way in hell they can deliver a funtional Linux device if they can't even get their own OS working correctly.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by fireman50 View Post
    There's no way in hell they can deliver a funtional Linux device if they can't even get their own OS working correctly.
    My point exactly!
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by fireman50 View Post
    There's no way in hell they can deliver a funtional Linux device if they can't even get their own OS working correctly.
    Well the Foleo actually is running on Linux so I do not think it would be a far stretch to get the treo apps running on linux...
  14. #14  
    I don't think it would either, what I don't trust is Palm's ability to deliver it.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by fireman50 View Post
    There's no way in hell they can deliver a funtional Linux device if they can't even get their own OS working correctly.
    I can't agree with that statement. Linux is a pretty standard and stable OS, it would be difficult to screw that up.
    Installing and removing patches and updates to linux is for the most part painless and it can run a ton of products.

    They [Palm] can get Linux support from a variety or sources one of which is IBM. Switching to a Linux platform should bring a lot of help and stability to Palm.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    I don't think it would either, what I don't trust is Palm's ability to deliver it.
    I think Palm is a very chaotic state right now... They got an influx of capital, not they need to focus that capital on making them king of the hill... The question really is what would make them King again?? and everyone is going to have opinions on what that is going to be.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by pool_shark View Post
    I can't agree with that statement. Linux is a pretty standard and stable OS, it would be difficult to screw that up.
    Installing and removing patches and updates to linux is for the most part painless and it can run a ton of products.

    They [Palm] can get Linux support from a variety or sources one of which is IBM. Switching to a Linux platform should bring a lot of help and stability to Palm.
    Personally i do not think that POS is all that unstable if you remove the phone functionality. The treo functionality is just oo much to handle for POS... A true multitasking OS like linux to get everything to work properly... POS just cannot run multiple apps at once with out running into problems, and with all the applications that the TREOS need to run today is just too much for the POS...

    People have to remember the the POS was built and designed to run PDA type applications that could run one at a time with out problems... Now the Treo is asking it to run a phone, datebook, SMS, e-mail, and browser... and 99% of the time these are all fighting for the same limited amount of processor time. This explains the lags that most people see...
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by pool_shark View Post
    ...They [Palm] can get Linux support from a variety or sources one of which is IBM. Switching to a Linux platform should bring a lot of help and stability to Palm.
    I agree with both, however given their recent history I have profound reservations about Palm as a company delivering such a device on their own. I will wait until it materializes to evaluate the device's stability and usefulness before going with Palm once again.

    Until then, I am not planning to purchase any additional Palm branded devices.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen001 View Post
    Personally i do not think that POS is all that unstable if you remove the phone functionality. The treo functionality is just oo much to handle for POS... A true multitasking OS like linux to get everything to work properly... POS just cannot run multiple apps at once with out running into problems, and with all the applications that the TREOS need to run today is just too much for the POS...

    People have to remember the the POS was built and designed to run PDA type applications that could run one at a time with out problems... Now the Treo is asking it to run a phone, datebook, SMS, e-mail, and browser... and 99% of the time these are all fighting for the same limited amount of processor time. This explains the lags that most people see...
    I didn't say that POS was unstable, however the Treo line is obviously unstable.
    I'm not putting down Palm or POS, but they currently have a bad reputation with a good portion of their users.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    I agree with both, however given their recent history I have profound reservations about Palm as a company delivering such a device on their own. I will wait until it materializes to evaluate the device's stability and usefulness before going with Palm once again.

    Until then, I am not planning to purchase any additional Palm branded devices.
    I can understand your reservations, that's why I mentioned being able to get support for a Linux based device, they shouldn't have to do it on their own.
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