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  1. #81  
    lndshrk 1, rlyons02 0
  2. #82  
    Shark: I never once made the comment that any mod negated the warranty, and if I made it sound that way then I apologize. Obviously if I put an intake on a car and the transmisison fails, the transmisison will get fixed. What I was saying though, is ust what you are saying. If you put a chip in and it causes the motor to fail, then you are going to get hosed by the warranty because it ain't gonna get covered. Sorry I was thinking through the lines there.

    In a similar line, I never said simply putting third-parties on the 700p will negate any warranty. Quite to the contrary. But, if you put on a trillion third-parties, how is palm supposed to figure out if the problem lies in their hardware or in a conflict with the trillion software programs? And, as any company would do to protect their investors, they are making the burden of proof shift to the consumer. With so many people happy with their reset proof, BT working, lag minimized phones, why should palm think the problem lies in their phone?

    I do know there are problem phones, don't misquote me there, but I think a far majority are due to the number of problems reported here in TC are due to software rather than hardware conflicts.

    BTW, someone is keeping count of wins and loses and I am losing, we are entertainment now...hahaha!
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlyons02 View Post
    I do know there are problem phones, don't misquote me there, but I think a far majority are due to the number of problems reported here in TC are due to software rather than hardware conflicts.
    I truly wish you were right, but alas.. the BT problems are not software
    created - at best they are (Palm's) firmware created - and in no small
    part I believe they are hardware created.

    Just the fact that the MR worked on some 700p's and "bricked" others
    when they were all done using the "SD method" (rules out PC and USB issues)
    and all done (the ones I'm comparing) on HARD RESET Treos indicates that
    either:

    1) Palm has the worst software engineering/QC staff on planet earth (and/or)

    2) Palm has different/faulty hardware in some portion of existant 700p units. (and/or)

    3) The original engineering on the 700p was not up to snuff at all.

    I'm betting on a combination of 1 thru 3.

    Jim

    PS: rlyons02, for the record, I used 4 PALM APPROVED BT headsets, 3 of them
    sourced from a Sprint store - only the Jabra JX-10 "sort of worked as advertised"
    It also reset my phone randomly on call rcpt - without indication or warning thereof.

    I don't use a lot of "strange" software. My list of "needed" software is actually quite
    small compared with most "power users". (DA, Google Maps, Splash ID, Mathu, IM+)

    Nor was any of this software active WHEN the BT resets occured.

    Many, many people have experienced the same BT issues (hard to pair, loss
    of pairing, silent resets) Many of these same people don't even realize "It's not
    supposed to be like that" so they don't complain.

    That's my final 0.02

    Jim
    Last edited by lndshrk; 06/10/2007 at 05:07 PM.
  4. #84  
    My guess is you could take many factory fresh 700Ps and prove the bluetooth had issues right out of the box.
  5. #85  
    ugh another "lets sue palm thread?" are you kidding me. people put your sue cards away you cant sue for everything because your not happy. As stated before a more expensive phone doesnt work any better or worse than a $100 phone so dont expect that dropping more money equates better quality in cell phones.

    Its an electronic, electronics have problems sometimes its not a fool-proof thing.

    Also as stated before seek relief from Palm or your carrier for a swap/ 755p (sprint) if its that bad.

    To the thread topic- Palm listed a 800 number for issues and im sure theyll replace your phone if its bricked by the MR, if not your carrier most likely would. Its not the end of the world because the MR didnt work.

    And even without the MR, everyone had the same original 30 days to return it from your carrier, it has the same problems now that it had back then- nothings changed. There MAY be true issues BUT people wanna whine now because of the MR, not the fact they had 30 days to fully test out the phone when purchased. Everyone kept them months and months until now with no promise of a MR until lately, so how can you whine now and threaten to sue now? i call it disgruntled people now that the MR didnt work/do what you expected it to fix. You cant just sue all the sudden because YOURE not happy, you got your 30 days like every other customer to try it out and use the BT. It took me 3 days total to try out and realize the treo's bluetooth is **** poor, sheesh its not rocket science.
    Last edited by klurfdawg23; 06/11/2007 at 10:40 AM.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Then just sue.... or not. But the constant babbling is silly. Because I still maintain that nobody on these boards ACTUALLY WILL SUE. Because when all the emotion is expended, regardless of the merits - for or against the issue - nobody here will actually follow through on it. So my challenge is to either put up or shut up, folks, but please stop threatening legal action unless you yourself are willing to follow through.
    That is a bit silly assertion. It has nothing to do with individual action or as you say "you yourself .

    The best method is to establish a record of complaints in places like this so that a class action can be picked up and no individual need sue at all!

    As I said I was awarded $800 in equipment based on a suit against sprint pcs specifically having to do with obsoleted equipment -- I did not have to lift a finger.

    This is a user group. There is every reason to use a thread like this to organize or advocate a suit by others or better yet establishing a record so that a third party team might organize a class action.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlyons02 View Post
    My major beef about thread slike this is that you get flamers who don't even use the 700p and who didn't even try to do the update or have any working knowledge of the update who sit in here and just fan the flames.

    I say, if you don't own the phone, get out of the board. I could easily go to the 680 forum and whine about how that phone sux, or go to the 755 forum and complain about how that phone really isn't any faster than the 700p, but I don't. I don't own those phones. I stay off those boards.
    Yet you insist on trying to muzzle others?

    I welcome comments by people who have other models. they belong on this thread.

    Equating consumer protection with "whining" is an absurd stance.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    That is a bit silly assertion. It has nothing to do with individual action or as you say "you yourself .

    The best method is to establish a record of complaints in places like this so that a class action can be picked up and no individual need sue at all!

    As I said I was awarded $800 in equipment based on a suit against sprint pcs specifically having to do with obsoleted equipment -- I did not have to lift a finger.

    This is a user group. There is every reason to use a thread like this to organize or advocate a suit by others or better yet establishing a record so that a third party team might organize a class action.
    These threads have already occurred - a simple search will find them. Anyone who wishes to organize a suit can do so; however, the mythical "third party team" hasn't come forward.....and won't ever.

    When you say "no individual has to sue at all", that's not really true - even if a suit is a class action suit, someone has to start the ball rolling; and (just as with the 650 threads and the prior 700p threads) nobody here seems to ever pick up on it. The end result is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    But by all means, carry on.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    These threads have already occurred - a simple search will find them. Anyone who wishes to organize a suit can do so; however, the mythical "third party team" hasn't come forward.....and won't ever.

    When you say "no individual has to sue at all", that's not really true - even if a suit is a class action suit, someone has to start the ball rolling; and (just as with the 650 threads and the prior 700p threads) nobody here seems to ever pick up on it. The end result is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    But by all means, carry on.
    Do you know class actions at all? No one here has to organize or actively do anything other than voice their concerns.

    Are you saying the class action team that came foreward and pressed sprint pcs for the prior multi million dollar class action suit was "mythical"? Sorry, they just picked up on the complaints and sued to everyone with that equipments benefit.
  10. #90  
    no class action wouldnt make them produce a better product. NOT BUYING IT would. IF they cant sell them and they see otehr companies advancing their devices they would too. Buying them and then whining doesnt get you anywhere THEY DONT CARE. theyre a multi-million if not billion dollar company, the 50 people in here whining wont affect any of their decisions. Youre gonna make some lawyer VERY rich and happy for his new ferrari but NO difference in end result when they simply will replace the phones which theyre already WILLING to do if you take the actual time instead of moaning in here and use that time to pick up the phone and resolve the issue on your own personal problem with your device. Sprint has been more than willing from what i read to help solve the issues and replace them with 755's at that.

    Once again, did you or not get the same 30 day trial every single person here got? you did, and it was obvious the first time using the phone it lagged and bluetooth was poor, it was to me and im just a 25 year old college kid. You should have returned it within 30 days for a full refund and then no harm would have come to your wallet. THATS what gets Palms attention, not selling units. Everyone needs to quit the whining and moaning it wont get you anywhere other than venting to yourselves. Vote with your wallet which will hurt them directly not your mouth in some dinky forum that Palm doesnt read nor care about. I promise you Palm's head DOESNT come in here and read youre disgruntled, but he DOES read sales figures so hit them where it actually counts then.
    Last edited by klurfdawg23; 06/11/2007 at 09:55 PM.
  11. #91  
    Again this is an absurd assertion. Are you saying palm or sprint are whining and moaning company for engaging in legal actions to protect their rights?

    Yet consumers doing the analog are whiners? that is just specious.

    please do check findlaw. You are accusing palm of being a bigger "whiner" than any consumer here.

    As I said I was passive party to a class action against sprint over equipment that netted $14 million to their gsm customers. the average was a free handset and a good amount of free airtime for about 100 customers who were screwed. They made no such offer until the class action.

    Lawsuits and threats of them are used all the time by corporations.

    Also I think you are confused the warranty is not 30 days. that is the return period on the phone. the cancellation of the account was 14 days. one would not expect to test out all bluetooth functionality in 30 days and bluetooth functionality on this handset is not up to standard even as compared to much cheaper handsets, and as one would reasonably expect.

    I would bet that palm's attorneys may indeed think they have is exposure on bluetooth disfuctionality even after 30 days.


    Quote Originally Posted by klurfdawg23 View Post
    no class action wouldnt make them produce a better product. NOT BUYING IT would. IF they cant sell them and they see otehr companies advancing their devices they would too. Buying them and then whining doesnt get you anywhere THEY DONT CARE. theyre a multi-million if not billion dollar company, the 50 people in here whining wont affect any of their decisions.

    Once again, did you or not get the same 30 day trial every single person here got? you did, and it was obvious the first time using the phone it lagged and bluetooth was poor, it was to me and im just a 25 year old college kid. You should have returned it within 30 days for a full refund and then no harm would have come to your wallet. THATS what gets Palms attention, not selling units. Everyone needs to quit the whining and moaning it wont get you anywhere other than venting to yourselves. Vote with your wallet which will hurt them directly not your mouth in some dinky forum that Palm doesnt read nor care about.
  12. #92  
    On the silly idea that lawyers make the bulk of the money on class action and it makes no difference to consumers

    Facts from the class action on GSM equiment:
    97-98 case v sprint pcs 120,000 customers get over $14 million in credits. legal team gets about one million.
    issue arose because of revolt on sprintusers group.
  13. #93  
    I suggest a bit of reading for the students...

    Quote Originally Posted by Answers.com
    Implied Warranty of Merchantability

    Implied warranties come in two general types: merchantability and fitness. An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used....

    The policy behind the implied warranty of merchantability is basic: sellers are generally better suited than buyers to determine whether a product will perform properly. Holding the seller liable for a product that is not fit for its ordinary purpose shifts the costs of nonperformance from the buyer to the seller. This motivates the seller to ensure the product's proper performance before placing it on the market. The seller is better able to absorb the costs of a product's nonperformance, usually by spreading the risk to consumers in the form of increased prices.

    The policy behind limiting the implied warranty of merchantability to the goods' ordinary use is also straightforward: a seller may not have sufficient expertise or control over a product to ensure that it will perform properly when used for nonstandard purposes.
    This search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...bility&spell=1
    produced several interesting hits. I quoted from this page http://www.answers.com/topic/implied-warranty

    If a cellular telephone cannot reliably make and/or receive telephone calls, then it fails the Warranty of Merchantability. If said device advertises specific functionality, e.g. Blue Tooth support, than it is to be expected this feature will perform correctly -- or at least as well as competing devices.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Again this is an absurd assertion. Are you saying palm or sprint are whining and moaning company for engaging in legal actions to protect their rights?

    Yet consumers doing the analog are whiners? that is just specious.

    please do check findlaw. You are accusing palm of being a bigger "whiner" than any consumer here.

    As I said I was passive party to a class action against sprint over equipment that netted $14 million to their gsm customers. the average was a free handset and a good amount of free airtime for about 100 customers who were screwed. They made no such offer until the class action.

    Lawsuits and threats of them are used all the time by corporations.

    Also I think you are confused the warranty is not 30 days. that is the return period on the phone. the cancellation of the account was 14 days. one would not expect to test out all bluetooth functionality in 30 days and bluetooth functionality on this handset is not up to standard even as compared to much cheaper handsets, and as one would reasonably expect.

    I would bet that palm's attorneys may indeed think they have is exposure on bluetooth disfuctionality even after 30 days.
    i have no clue what the first part of your ramble is even saying. All i said was people in here this forum are whiners when they dont get what they want yet kept the phone for months and months. I dont get where you get me saying palm or sprint is whining at all.

    Im sorry if i went and bought a $600 computer, or anything similar, and it didnt work right id return it within the store's exchange policy, this is common sense. I wouldnt keep it 8-12 months then start whining like a baby it doesnt work when word of a update comes close and doesnt end up working. If you go to a restaurant and get the wrong meal, common sense is you say something and return it an they fix the order and bring you the right food. You dont just sit there and eat it then complain "o you brought me the wrong meal i ordered" now gimme free stuff. You cant complain after the fact, which is keeping it months and months here. And the other fact is that you need to say something to sprint or palm, and then give them a chance at least to fix your particular device before threatening suing everyone. This would be common sense course of action

    No matter how you look at it people had 30 days to try out the phone. I never said 30 days is the warranty, its the exchange period. The 700p came out in may or june 2006, and sprint did have the 30 day policy then- the 14 day thing was a while ago. Its not that hard to figure out the bluetooth on all treos sucks big time. If you dont try bluetooth within 30 days then whos to blame? You didnt test it out, you know you get 30 days for the full refund or an exchange. I for one try out every feature in the 30 day window before the chance to return it is gone. I had the 700p the day it came out and bluetooth was **** poo then like it still is, it hasnt changed as there hasnt been any changes to the device or software. Test out all the bluetooth functions? Ummm the thing people are complaining about is the headset issues which is what 99% of users use bluetooth for and it is apparently obvious the very first time you use the headset for a call that its staticy and drops the bluetooth connection, its not rocket science.

    Its common sense and people get all excited for a new gadget and dont bother doing anything with the phone like going through it, then complain when it doesnt work but they didnt bother fully using and trying it out it in the 30 day window they give you. Thats a user responsibility problem not a lawsuit problem. Thats the whole purpose of the 30 day window to try it out and see if it suits you. And back to the warranty thing you get a year warranty on any cell phone and its still currently within a year of its release so CALL PALM its not that hard a concept to take action to get a result.

    Another "either way" fact is Sprint, as in another thread in here, has been replacing people's bricked 700's with 755's. My point was instead of wasting 5-10 min ranting and raving posting on here call your carrier and try to come to a resolution. Common sense once again to be an adult and take care of a problem not be a child and cry for your mommy.

    And most of the time class action legal teams make much more than 1/14th of the judgement. The point is why bother wasting all the time. The same outcome of the carrier or Palm replacing the defective phones that would come out of a lawsuit is already being offered by the carrier (sprint in this case) if people werent so "sue happy" and just called and talked to sprint about it theyd probably get their issue resolved instead of spending that time here posting about how they wanna **** and moan about it. Some people need to grow up big time and use their mouths and tlak instead of whining like 10 year old children. And IF for some reason sprint doesnt wanna work with a person, sell the phone and move on to something not Palm. People need to try to resolve their problems before whining

    In summary, i dont get how this is such a hard concept. The phone doesnt work properly or the MR bricked the phone? CALL sprint or palm FIRST. see what they say as sprint seems to be offering to fix the situation quite readily offering 755's. THEN worry about further action, but dont skip step 1 and move to the lets sue everyone phase. But i guess thats the american way these days, leave the work to someone else and try to sit back and have stuff come to you instead of doing something for yourself and at least trying to resolve your own problems
    Last edited by klurfdawg23; 06/12/2007 at 02:40 AM.
  15. #95  
    Some carriers don't offer a 755. Some people have only had these phones for a couple of months and kept them because Palm said a fix was coming.

    The American way these days it to sell a defective product, put new products in the market before fixing the old ones because they don't want to spend resources on an old product. Just worry about the bottom line.

    The American way for Palm should have been to put the resources into fixing the 700p which they know has problems and not deny there were issues. They should have done the right thing. For all carriers. Don't forget that Palm blamed other companies' software for the resets and lags for months. Far beyond the 30 day trial.

    I don't see these class action discussions for the 650, 755, 680 etc.

    If palm had done the right, American thing, these threads would not even be here.
    Last edited by beaverlake; 06/12/2007 at 10:36 AM.
  16. #96  
    I seriously wonder if Palm thought, "because the 7xx series uses the same basic hardware, we can just fix the problems in the 755 ROM and then release the changes for the 700p after the 755 goes to retail"?

    Is it possible the 700p MR was delayed due to the timing/delay? of the 755?
    Last edited by chodaboy; 06/12/2007 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Had a thought.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by beaverlake View Post
    Some carriers don't offer a 755. Some people have only had these phones for a couple of months and kept them because Palm said a fix was coming.

    The American way these days it to sell a defective product, put new products in the market before fixing the old ones because they don't want to spend resources on an old product. Just worry about the bottom line.

    The American way for Palm should have been to put the resources into fixing the 700p which they know has problems and not deny there were issues. They should have done the right thing. For all carriers. Don't forget that Palm blamed other companies' software for the resets and lags for months. Far beyond the 30 day trial.

    I don't see these class action discussions for the 650, 755, 680 etc.

    If palm had done the right, American thing, these threads would not even be here.
    thats how america is so deal with it. playstation->ps2->ps3, xbox->xbox360, computers continuously progress in technology. Everything electronic progresses through stages thats how it is. This happens all the time with computer stuff, it outdates in a month sometimes. You cant complain about it thats how the market is and it is how it is you cant change it.

    Not all carriers do sell the 755p, BUT id love to know how many people actually called their carrier or Palm to seek relief before posting SUE SUE SUE. Most people here sound like they havent tried to do anything for themselves about the situation to resolve it with their carrier and wanna b**ch and moan here like thatll solve the problem and someone else will do the grunt work for them and start a lawsuit. Thats not the easiest way to get your phone fixed as lawsuits takes months if not years.

    Now knowing that, I ask are people more concerned with their phones not working or "sticking it to Palm???" If its sticking it to Palm then its not gonna work- even if you did win, they lose a little money big deal- moto/verizon survived it with the v710, theyd be ok you wouldnt put them out of business. Nor would it persuade them to make better devices for their customers who just sued them. Its not gonna stick anything to anyone other than be a big waste of time. I think people are after a class action suit for the wrong reasons and they dont understand by the time the suit is settled most people will prob be on to a different phone as, like i said, it takes months to years to recieve your settlement. When i got my v710 settlement it was over a year later- maybe even almost 2 years- and i was already off Verizon for a while and on Sprint, so it didnt do much for me. I got a little money back but in the year or 2 of working I had already made the money back time and time over again. If people are worried about the money then sell it, recoup some of, if not all of the cost and get a job and make money and move on.

    So why not sell it and move on then now? Why bother suing everything that moves just because you can? It wont help either side in the end. Makes no sense

    And everyone still continues to blame Palm because YOU kept the phone. Who cares who they blame and who cares what they said. You bought a phone based on Palm's "promise" of a MR? Do you believe everything everyone says? Did the phone work for you AT the time you bought it or not? Thats all that matters, and if bluetooth was and always has been poor like people have been posting for a while now, then people should have gotten rid of them within 30 days.
    Last edited by klurfdawg23; 06/13/2007 at 07:54 AM.
  18. #98  
    Palm is still responsible to fix their phones.

    "That's how America is so deal with it" and you are against suiing?

    What? You got a settlement and you are whining about someone suing.
    Isn't that the definition of hypocritical?
  19. #99  
    Hmmm I had problems after installing the MR. I had to do a warm reset then a hard reset to get things right again. Frustrating yes would I sue...no. The problems are minor compared to some some of the garbage coming out of Redmond, WA. Treoing and Loving It!!!
  20. ink883's Avatar
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    #100  
    Remember not all defects can be discovered in 30 days. For example, many people may buy a phone and have to hold out till there next monthly paycheck to get a BT headset or an SD card to play mp3's w/ pocket-tunes. Maybe some people didn't set up Versamail right away either.

    Also as stated in an earlier post, many of us held on to our devices thinking Palm would release an update that fixed these issues.
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
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