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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    Well Greg...you are wrong.
    I have plenty of class..ask my wife.
    May I call you Greg?
    Certainly, my business phone number is 541-683-8383. I get in at about 8am PST. Ask for Greg Zartman.

    I don't have to call your wife... I read your first post and you have no class. It was filled with filth and statements that help no one.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    1. Comparing Palm to Microsoft. Exactly my point. What a genius!
    They aren't similar? I think there are many similarities between the two OSs. I am not comparing Palm to M$ on a company level, but where Palm as an OS is now to where Windows was as an OS then. I can draw MANY technical similarities, one of the most significant of which is how Palm OS handles memory… It is similar to how Windows handled memory in Win 95 until Protected Memory was introduced in later versions of Windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    2 Where?
    READ.... It is all here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh....php?t=144589\

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=144608

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=144608

    One example post:

    You can now close the call duration screen by clicking the ok buttton.

    Blazer seems snappier. So does the messaging program, actually. Much snappier actually.

    I am finding less lag on switching between apps. Especially from Blazer to anything else. My treo seems to be picking up signal faster when switching between roam and home networks. Maybe that's why there's less lag? Looking good so far.


    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    3. Have you been living under a rock. IPHONE.
    Apples and Oranges (no pun intended.) I have posted my opinion on this topic before in other threads. I think ANY mobile computer without some sort of a physical keyboard would not be useful as a business device. A virtual keyboard is just too difficult to use on the run. One handed use --- forget it. There is no way I can dial a phone number on my Treo using the virtual phone number pad on my 700p while driving..

    I have no doubt that the Iphone is going to be a hit, but it will be most popular to a user group that I am not a part of. My 17 year old daughter would love an Iphone, but I wouldn't want one even if Apple gave it to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    4. If you do not want crashes or lag.. do not load any third party software. Brilliant!
    I have never said "load no third part apps." Go read any of my posts on this topic here at TC... I have said that loading third part apps tends to lead to instability and one needs to proceed with caution and with a good uninstaller. I run several third party apps on my 700P, but I am now VERY selective what I put on my phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    5. Unsupported device. There you go again! Brilliant!. It's bluetooth..it should all work.
    Not all bluetooth devices comply to the same standards.... Do some research... Just because a device can do bluetooth does not mean it should just work.


    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    I am glad you are happy with your phone. I hope that jar of vasoline reduces the pain!
    This must be one of those classy statements you were hoping your wife would tell me about, no?

    Greg
    Last edited by gzartman; 06/04/2007 at 11:39 PM.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by gzartman View Post
    My 17 year old daughter would love an Iphone, but I wouldn't want one even if Apple gave it to me.
    Personally I'm not even sure it'll catch on with that crowd. The high-school age group these days primarily uses their phones for texting, and already have ipods for music. They'll all attempt to text without looking during their classes, realize its impossible to use a touchscreen keyboard without looking at it, and go back to using their Sidekick after a few days of using it. Then again, some might suffer through it just to look cool, which it seems that quite a few people here are more interested in than something that works, despite the fact its now 'cool' on these boards to act like the 700p does nothing, when the update fixes 99% of the issues people had, and most of us were happy with it before the update anyway.
  3. #23  
    Political correctness stinks. Let the guy vent. I love my 700p but that update was far from problem free. I lost software codes, my video on kinoma, some preferences and a few apps that I had to reinstall. Total time spent so far is about 4 hours. How many times will I have to launch blazer to make up for that time?
  4. #24  
    exactly. I don't think the OP lacks class at all. I feel the same way as he does as well as do many others I am sure. Palm or Sprint won't listen to us, so where else do we go? If you don't like his post, ignore it dude! You can't stop the rain from falling but it is pretty easy to get an umbrella...
  5. backbeat's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo View Post
    If you don't like his post, ignore it dude!
    I just love statements like this. How exactly does one form an opinion ... [like it/don't like it] ... without having first read it. Therefore, how does one ignore what one does not like?
  6. #26  
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the phone and the MR. But, the reason why I stay in this forum and abandon most others is because of the sense of community and lack of personal attacks. Please can we stay on topic and leave the personal stuff out of it. I know we can get passionate about our "toys."
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Apanther View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the phone and the MR. But, the reason why I stay in this forum and abandon most others is because of the sense of community and lack of personal attacks. Please can we stay on topic and leave the personal stuff out of it. I know we can get passionate about our "toys."

    An opinion is a very personal thing. If everyone is entitled to their opinion about their phone and the MR and should be free to express their opinion in this public place, then others should be free to express their opinion about those who express their opinions.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  8. lschiedel's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by PCStreo View Post
    May I call you Greg?
    Well Greg...you are wrong.

    I have plenty of class..ask my wife.

    1. Comparing Palm to Microsoft. Exactly my point. What a genius!

    2. Where?

    3. Have you been living under a rock. IPHONE.

    4. If you do not want crashes or lag.. do not load any third party software. Brilliant!

    5. Unsupported device. There you go again! Brilliant!. It's bluetooth..it should all work.

    I am glad you are happy with your phone. I hope that jar of vasoline reduces the pain!
    3. The IPHONE is not a better SMARTPHONE than the TREO P or WX. It is a better limited use, IPOD like phone.

    In their attempts to extend the smart phone to the Mac types, they instead are making a phone that is ...
    - pretty (meaning looks cute and cool rather than functional and sturdy),
    - somewhat intelligent but not quite smart,
    - won't crash but therefore has limited software and hardware support,
    - easy to use UI but therefore not one-handed or without looking or fast to type

    People who just use the TREO as a phone with contacts and play mp3s and browse the web, will love the IPHONE (until they have to type in email or urls or chat).
    People who are power users will abandon the iphone when it won't run the Palm software (or Mac software) that they expect.
    People who will like it (and stay with it) are those who currently use a mildly smart phone or a standard cell phone, who want some of the toys of a smart phone (mp3 playing, email, web browsing) but who don't want/need complications or exceptional power (or crashes).

    I do not blame those people.
    The Treo still isnt powerful enough to do what it is targeted for (CPU power, ram, screen, OS) but has grown too complex for its original target audience (simple organizer).
    We NEED a phone like the IPHONE for some people, so we (the rest of us) can move the TREO further along.



    But we need a better TREO too.

    And no amount of lipstick on the pig can make the 700P, with its hardware limitations, be capable of what TREO, and us, are trying to make it do.

    No MR from Palm could fix this hardware and make the 700P completely usable. The flash ram design (and Palm OS limitations) just has too many side effects to be fast enough or stable enough for EVDO + Bluetooth + phone calls + 3rd party software + web browsing (especially page caching) + email (especially email caching and background mail checking).

    If Palm could have fixed this at all, it would not have taken them a year.

    But they must have discovered that there was no way to PATCH this pig of an OS and RAM design.

    Did ANYONE of you expect they would? Without replacing Palm OS entirely?


    The 700P is a lost cause.

    They may patch it to work for some people, with limitations of what they do and what devices they use, but no software patch will make it work.



    So insulting Palm is worthless. (unless you insult their PRPRPR $and$ $marketing$ $for$ $leading$ $us$ $on$, $but$ $you$ $would$ $have$ $too$ $in$ $their$ $position$).

    THEY COULD NOT HAVE EVER GOTTEN THIS MR TO WORK WITH THIS OS AND THIS FLASH DESIGN AND ALL OF OUR BLUETOOTH DEVICES AND SOFTWARE!

    Not in one year, not in 5!

    Only replacing the OS and the flash design and CPU would work.


    And does anyone think that one reason they don't want 3rd party software for the IPHONE, is that with current PDA cpus, flash, Bluetooth + Wireless support chips, that only certain types of 3rd part software would keep the phone fast enough and unclogged enough to still keep up with (and not crash while using) bluetooth and wireless chipsets and devices.
  9. #29  
    Except it works for the expectations of a great many people.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  10. lschiedel's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Except it works for the expectations of a great many people.
    Of course it works for the expectations of a great many people.

    Most people (who have had it for a while or have had past models) EXPECT it to crash a lot and not work with all bluetooth devices. And it met their expectations.

    Most people used a common bluetooth device and didnt fill their device with 3rd party apps and don't care about a 5 second lag.


    But most people migrating from other phones and/or listening to the power user promises EXPECT BETTER. (ie no crashes, compatible with anything claiming to be Bluetooth, and no long pauses while trying to answer the phone)

    And most people waiting for a MR, expected better. (at the very least that it would have come sooner).

    And those people who were disappointed with the delays and what it did, should not really have expected what they did.

    I don't blame Palm because I don't think they could have done better than what they did with the limitations they had.
    Short of a rewrite or hardware upgrade, their is very little they could do but put in hacks for various devices and software combinations.

    The design itself was flawed for power use.
    Combining the current PDA cpus, flash design and limited ram, existing EVDO and Bluetooth chipsets, and the aging Palm OS (ie no multitasking) is not up to full use and will be unstable and/or slow.

    I think this is why Apple doesn't want 3rd party apps except for those they check out first.
    It's not that the OS on the Iphone is less stable than the OS X desktops.
    It's that the CPU that phones can use, plus flash ram, are not fast enough to handle the demands of the chips that control Bluetooth and EVDO and WIFI, unless you enforce limits to how much CPU usage and ram usage that software running at all times can use.
    And the Palm OS doesn't have the multi-tasking ability that WinMob or Linux implementation have (or could have) to handle the devices well enough while still allowing unruly software to be running.
    Even a Linux port like the Iphone likely has, may still be vunerable to software that hogs too many system resources, since the current state of hardware has so little resources available. Phones do not have the space and power neccessary for the hardware to offload the EVDO, WIFI, and Bluetooth devices, like laptops and desktops do.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by lschiedel View Post
    Of course it works for the expectations of a great many people.

    Most people (who have had it for a while or have had past models) EXPECT it to crash a lot and not work with all bluetooth devices. And it met their expectations.

    Most people used a common bluetooth device and didnt fill their device with 3rd party apps and don't care about a 5 second lag.


    But most people migrating from other phones and/or listening to the power user promises EXPECT BETTER. (ie no crashes, compatible with anything claiming to be Bluetooth, and no long pauses while trying to answer the phone)
    I doubt that the >70% who have expressed satisfaction in their Treos did so because they don't care about crashes, don't use 3rd party apps, don't care about lags, or are less power users than you. I certainly don't fall into that category. It's simply possible that others are just as much a capable user as you, but have had a more successful experience.

    For the record, mine virtually never crashes, and had (pre-MR) a very short Blazer lag and use Bluetooth for both headset and to connect to my laptop. I'm very much a power user and have a ton of 3rd party apps. I say this only to give perspective, and to highlight that different Treos may give different results.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  12. #32  
    This whole effort has solidified what I've been saying for six months on this forum....there are significant hardware variations in the 700P. Different chipsets, or whatever. Mine works like a charm, has since I got it, I will definitely not upgrade because I don't need to. I've got tons of third party apps, no lag. BT works just fine. How can it not be totally obvious that all the phones are not the same from the factory? Now, with variations in the RM update on totally clean phones after hard resets, I consider that proof that some of the phones, but not all, have flawed hardware. If the people that had been complaining about this for a year had spent their time looking into the detective work it takes to figure this out, they would have had a much more substantial argument for refunds or replacements.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I doubt that the >70% who have expressed satisfaction in their Treos did so because they don't care about crashes, don't use 3rd party apps, don't care about lags, or are less power users than you. I certainly don't fall into that category. It's simply possible that others are just as much a capable user as you, but have had a more successful experience.

    For the record, mine virtually never crashes, and had (pre-MR) a very short Blazer lag and use Bluetooth for both headset and to connect to my laptop. I'm very much a power user and have a ton of 3rd party apps. I say this only to give perspective, and to highlight that different Treos may give different results.
    Agreed. I've said it many times.

    I have many 3rd party software products installed:
    launcher X, 2-day, 4-cast, chatter, notepad, google maps, kinoma 4, vox, treomemo, minitone, opera mini, java, applock, filez, snap, galaga, galaxian, poker, black jack, madden, pacman.

    My email check 2 addresses every 20 minutes, my Treo is my primary phone (my home phone is forwarded to my Treo and that's also how my office contacts me, I send text messages daily, I watch videos and listen to the radio, I keep all of my work notes in treomemo, I create and edit word docs, etc.

    Most of my BT trouble went away when I stopped turning BT off. My Jabra BT 500 had virtually no issues. My Voyager 510 has issues, but it is on the incompatible devices list (that's my fault not palm's).
    I rarely get the lag switching between apps. Most of my problems which were phone related went away when I started doing soft resets every morning.

    I am happy with my Treo and wouldn't install the MR update for Verizon if it was out right now, but I do understand the frustration of those who are having major issues.
  14. #34  
    Stop trying to compare the iphone to the Treo.. the iphone is not out yet.. Go look at the commercials and how fast and smooth the phone seems to run.. As for lack of software I hear you can install any widget on the apple site onto the iphone. And at least 1000 free widgets are available. Apple has a way of making sure a product lives up to its name, they are a good company and when something goes wrong they fix it and have the best customer care I have experience for electronics. Not only can I call up and speak to an english rep I can go to the apple store and talk face to face with someone who knows and loves what they do.



    As for the 700p, go to your sprint store and try it side by side with the 755p, I had a hard reset then updated the 700p got my 755p replacement in the mail the same day, side by side the 755p still put the 700p to shame. Quickly put the 700p in the box and sent it back. And I agree with the OP Palm is a crappy company that is going to be in a lot of trouble, lets face it when the big deal a few years ago was adding Wi-Fi and bluetooth to a handheld when others have had it for years before, not only that but they use outdated crap such as BT 1.2. Also the lack of built on voice commands and voice typing which came free on my A900 and worked great along with the BT on that phone. What also sad is the customer care at Palm, of calling in and being lied to then when you tell them you are a treocentral member the story changes and they admit to the problems. Just the release of the folio shows the company is living in a dream bubble and has lost what the market wants.
  15. lschiedel's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I doubt that the >70% who have expressed satisfaction in their Treos did so because they don't care about crashes, don't use 3rd party apps, don't care about lags, or are less power users than you. I certainly don't fall into that category. It's simply possible that others are just as much a capable user as you, but have had a more successful experience.

    For the record, mine virtually never crashes, and had (pre-MR) a very short Blazer lag and use Bluetooth for both headset and to connect to my laptop. I'm very much a power user and have a ton of 3rd party apps. I say this only to give perspective, and to highlight that different Treos may give different results.
    Actually most of the msgs I have seen that said they were satisfied with their 700P still admit it reseted or locked up occasionally (ie crashed). Just not enough for them to be dissatisfied. The average PC user (ie most of us) are use to PCs crashing. The average non-PC user is not. The average MAC user would hate for the phone to reset or lockup like the 700P does. The average phone user would hate the bluetooth support the 700P has (unless they use one of the lucky devices)
  16. lschiedel's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewAz View Post
    Stop trying to compare the iphone to the Treo.. the iphone is not out yet.. Go look at the commercials and how fast and smooth the phone seems to run.. As for lack of software I hear you can install any widget on the apple site onto the iphone. And at least 1000 free widgets are available. Apple has a way of making sure a product lives up to its name, they are a good company and when something goes wrong they fix it and have the best customer care I have experience for electronics. Not only can I call up and speak to an english rep I can go to the apple store and talk face to face with someone who knows and loves what they do.
    No, I will compare the Treo to the advertised specs of the iphone all i want.
    Thats what a forum is for. To speculate and compare and rant.

    The Iphone looks to be a GREAT device for the people it targets. No argument

    But, without a real keyboard, and user created games and utilities, I am not one of the people that this phone is targeted to.

    And this is NOT OS X, anymore than WinMob is Windows XP.
    It runs a different CPU, with far different capabilites and specs.
    Everything everyone but you has said, is that only Apple approved widgets will be allowed to run (ie. they will use some kind of signing or method of installation). Are all Mac OS X widgets written in a VM like Java or .NET?
    If not, how are those going to get recompiled for the CPU in the IPHONE?
    What about disk access, offline use, SPEED, etc.

    Plus, how many of those Widgets are tools I would want to run on a smart phone (and would miss from the Treo). How many game widgets are there? (and that would work without a mouse/keyboard). How many PDA style?
    And what about programs that are not limited to being widgets? ie. real PDA software with multiple screens and forms and controls that are targeted to the Iphone screen real estate.

    So when is the ORB or SLINGBOX or SONY LOCATION FREE getting ported to the IPHONE (oh yeah, its not allowed).

    So when are game emulators getting ported to the iphone (oops).

    This is what makes the Palm, WinMob, and Java phones SMART PHONES.
  17. #37  
    The overwhelming irony of this thread is that you can take any phone/smartphone/pda and find online forum threads from people (or groups of people) who are quite adamant that their phone/pda/smartphone SUCKS. Similarly, you can find forum enteries or reader reviews from virtually every Bluetooth peripheral that state that THEY CAN'T MAKE IT WORK.

    And - FYI - the iPhone isn't out yet, but the domain name iPhoneSucks.com has already been registered.

    Just yesterday I witnessed a smartphone forum flamewar erupt over the efficacy of those silly cellphone antennae stickers...

    Its always something.
  18. #38  
    silly cell phone stickers & the rapidly declining quality of Treos & the treatment of customers is a whole different ball game.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by lschiedel View Post
    No, I will compare the Treo to the advertised specs of the iphone all i want.
    Thats what a forum is for. To speculate and compare and rant.

    The Iphone looks to be a GREAT device for the people it targets. No argument

    But, without a real keyboard, and user created games and utilities, I am not one of the people that this phone is targeted to.

    And this is NOT OS X, anymore than WinMob is Windows XP.
    It runs a different CPU, with far different capabilites and specs.
    Everything everyone but you has said, is that only Apple approved widgets will be allowed to run (ie. they will use some kind of signing or method of installation). Are all Mac OS X widgets written in a VM like Java or .NET?
    If not, how are those going to get recompiled for the CPU in the IPHONE?
    What about disk access, offline use, SPEED, etc.

    Plus, how many of those Widgets are tools I would want to run on a smart phone (and would miss from the Treo). How many game widgets are there? (and that would work without a mouse/keyboard). How many PDA style?
    And what about programs that are not limited to being widgets? ie. real PDA software with multiple screens and forms and controls that are targeted to the Iphone screen real estate.

    So when is the ORB or SLINGBOX or SONY LOCATION FREE getting ported to the IPHONE (oh yeah, its not allowed).

    So when are game emulators getting ported to the iphone (oops).

    This is what makes the Palm, WinMob, and Java phones SMART PHONES.
    Quite frankly you are just speaking out of your *** and nothing more. Show me the specs that have been posted by apple. Thing is its all speculation and no one has the full 100% answer.

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/

    "keyboard" looks fine to me... At least it has auto word completion...
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by pool_shark View Post
    Agreed. I've said it many times.

    I have many 3rd party software products installed:
    launcher X, 2-day, 4-cast, chatter, notepad, google maps, kinoma 4, vox, treomemo, minitone, opera mini, java, applock, filez, snap, galaga, galaxian, poker, black jack, madden, pacman.

    My email check 2 addresses every 20 minutes, my Treo is my primary phone (my home phone is forwarded to my Treo and that's also how my office contacts me, I send text messages daily, I watch videos and listen to the radio, I keep all of my work notes in treomemo, I create and edit word docs, etc.

    Most of my BT trouble went away when I stopped turning BT off. My Jabra BT 500 had virtually no issues. My Voyager 510 has issues, but it is on the incompatible devices list (that's my fault not palm's).
    I rarely get the lag switching between apps. Most of my problems which were phone related went away when I started doing soft resets every morning.

    I am happy with my Treo and wouldn't install the MR update for Verizon if it was out right now, but I do understand the frustration of those who are having major issues.
    See, this is the thing. I have had just as many, if not MORE apps installed BEFORE the MR update, and I didnt have a problem with the sync drop down box crashing my device.

    This leads me to believe that it isn't a problem with apps. Of course because of Palm, my *** is sitting here deleting one by one to see if anything fixes it. If not, I WILL be in a Sprint store tomorrow requesting a new device or else be requesting the OLD MR from Palm.

    They should at least put up the old one so we can revert back if we choose.

    So what I gain a few things, but that the same time lose something that is VERY important. If I dont have a cable and I need to sync bluetooth route, I USED to be able to do it. I still can now, but I cant switch back to cable and vice versa without it resetting
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