Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 56
  1. JCFox's Avatar
    Posts
    40 Posts
    Global Posts
    87 Global Posts
       #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    Having several T700P's deployed in my business I have noticed over the past year that not all of them behave the same; some cause more trouble than others and yet some seem to work most of the time with similar installed applications on board.

    Overall I have noticed three major issues with most (not all) our Treos: the overall slow response, unreliable Bluetooth connection and occasional resets during calls (mostly on areas with poor signal).

    At this point I fail to see a class action suit on basis of a defective product being fruitful with a crop of phones that behave so differently under similar conditions; I strongly suspect major flaws in quality control as causative for these variations.

    I believe other avenues may provide more fruitful resolution and achieve the same objective. Here is what we plan to do if the MR fails to deliver the improvements needed:

    1. We plan to approach the carrier who sold us the product and request relief on the basis of documented problems. Specifically we will request replacement units at low or no cost as condition for keeping our business accounts with them.

    2. If that fails for an individual user, and you can proof that your unit is defective, seeking relief via small claims court may yield better results at lower cost. If not, just selling the unit may mitigate your loss - one man's trash is another man's treasure.

    3. Do not buy any additional products from a company that has such poor track record in recent years. We will move to the WM platform for multiple reasons, the hardware will NOT be Palm branded.

    4. As mentioned earlier, voice your complaints through the BBB.

    5. Educate others about your experiences with Palm as a company and their problematic product history.


    **DISCLAIMER** I am NOT a lawyer nor do I play one on TV
    TreoNewt's idea is actually pretty interesting, and would likely cost Palm more than a Class Action, in terms of publicity and cash. He started a Discussion in April with exactly that idea, and I love the idea.

    Here is the link to the other thread:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=140583

    If 1,000 people filed the same small claims case all over the country, and Palm either was forced to defend, or forced to pay up after default judgements, it would certainly make life interesting.


    The only real advantage to a properly filed Class Action is the publicity.

    Another option would be to have an active attorney pick up the fight like I did against BMW. I was just a small practitioner, but I had several hundred people who wrote to me allowing me to speak on their behalf. A few letters later and BMW had a system in place that essentially fixed the problem.

    I'm no longer licensed to practice, having started a small real estate development company in Hawaii, so someone else would have to take the helm. Whoever it is can expect to be villified by all the anti-lawyer types who would suspect your motivations, but the end result would be nice.
  2. haroldo's Avatar
    Posts
    435 Posts
    Global Posts
    442 Global Posts
    #22  
    I am not a lawyer, but I think a case brought against a defendant who:
    (a) is working on resolving the problem (albeit, taking a bit longer than they, or their customers would have preferred) and promising the fix in the next week or two
    and
    (b) offering replacements for problematic units (there are countless threads where people said they were offered either a new unit, a refurbished one or a complete replacement, such as the 700W)
    will probably be easily dismissed and result in court fees being charged in, what might be described as a nuisance suit.

    The fact of the matter is they are trying to resolve the problems. Sure, people can complain that it has taken too long, but unless someone can prove that they aren't working on it, I doubt any serious court will entertain these actions.

    On a slightly different topic, too often in our society claimants are using the threat of class action to bludgeon the defendant into a settlement (fearing a costly trial or verdict).
    It is an extortion where the defendant has to choose the lessor of two evils.
    Assuming that a class action were to begin and assuming a victory for the claimants, the cost to Palm would easily balloon into the millions, maybe many millions. Every dollar spent comes at the expense of funds that would be available for research and development.
    So, instead of innovation and new products (or improvements to the existing lineup) money is spent paying the lawyers.
    All because they haven't fixed the 700p as soon as we would like.
    In a class action settlement, the lead attorney would get $50,000,000 and each Treo owner would get a 20% off coupon for Palm products.
    Simply put, I think we should all be patient ...for a little more time.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    It is far more effective to vote with your wallet when you buy the next phone.
    very well stated.

    i think it would be fairly easy for palm to show that only a limited # of 700p's are actually "flawed"...meaning to have constant issues that render the phone not to meet what it advertises.

    the only issue i could see coming close to this is bluetooth...and bluetooth is NOT an exact science...lots of other phones have bluetooth issues...and it would be easy for palm to show that.

    things like "lag"...or even "resets" are useless...lag is a relative term...and since the 700p was one of the first (if not first) evdo/pda phones... the "lag" becomes the standard.

    all of these "bugs" that render the phone useless or not being able to perform as advertised would have to be demonstrated to be the norm for the phone and WITHOUT any (read zero) 3rd party software to have any change a winning verdict.

    if you don't like the product...buy elsewhere like normal consumers with common sense. class action lawsiuts are a lotta talk about eventual nothing.
  4. JCFox's Avatar
    Posts
    40 Posts
    Global Posts
    87 Global Posts
       #24  
    Which is why I just ordered the BlackBerry 8830 from Verizon. Should be here in a few days. Once the MR is installed, I'll sell my 700pos on Craigslist and be done with Palm for good.
  5. leonidm's Avatar
    Posts
    189 Posts
    Global Posts
    191 Global Posts
    #25  
    all lawsuits do is feed lawers and insurance companies - the biggest thing that is wrong with this country is all those ridiculios lawsuits - and who pays for them? - we do! companies rise prices to cover legal and insurance expanses. The only right way to manage the market is free competition. If you don't like Palms phone , get other company's phone. In most wuropean countries all those stupid "macdonalds" cases would'n be even accepted in courts, but here we have an army of lawers to feed.....Wake up people - lawsuits do more harm then good, stop it!
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    Having several T700P's deployed in my business I have noticed over the past year that not all of them behave the same; some cause more trouble than others and yet some seem to work most of the time with similar installed applications on board.

    Overall I have noticed three major issues with most (not all) our Treos: the overall slow response, unreliable Bluetooth connection and occasional resets during calls (mostly on areas with poor signal).

    At this point I fail to see a class action suit on basis of a defective product being fruitful with a crop of phones that behave so differently under similar conditions; I strongly suspect major flaws in quality control as causative for these variations.

    I believe other avenues may provide more fruitful resolution and achieve the same objective. Here is what we plan to do if the MR fails to deliver the improvements needed:

    1. We plan to approach the carrier who sold us the product and request relief on the basis of documented problems. Specifically we will request replacement units at low or no cost as condition for keeping our business accounts with them.

    2. If that fails for an individual user, and you can proof that your unit is defective, seeking relief via small claims court may yield better results at lower cost. If not, just selling the unit may mitigate your loss - one man's trash is another man's treasure.

    3. Do not buy any additional products from a company that has such poor track record in recent years. We will move to the WM platform for multiple reasons, the hardware will NOT be Palm branded.

    4. As mentioned earlier, voice your complaints through the BBB.

    5. Educate others about your experiences with Palm as a company and their problematic product history.


    **DISCLAIMER** I am NOT a lawyer nor do I play one on TV
    agree with everything you said except the small claims part. remember the plaintiff, each individual, is responsible for the court costs and their attorney fees since you brought the suit. i guess you could sue for attorney fees and court costs but thatd only help you if you win. i dont see how potentially throwing away more money would solve individuals problems
  7. ink883's Avatar
    Posts
    872 Posts
    Global Posts
    883 Global Posts
    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by leonidm View Post
    all lawsuits do is feed lawers and insurance companies - the biggest thing that is wrong with this country is all those ridiculios lawsuits - and who pays for them? - we do! companies rise prices to cover legal and insurance expanses. The only right way to manage the market is free competition. If you don't like Palms phone , get other company's phone. In most wuropean countries all those stupid "macdonalds" cases would'n be even accepted in courts, but here we have an army of lawers to feed.....Wake up people - lawsuits do more harm then good, stop it!
    If it wasn't for certain lawsuits many products would not be safe to use and companies will be more likely to take advantage of you. Taking your business elsewhere does not help once the damage is already done.

    For example, your phone battery overheats and catches on fire because of a design flaw. The fire results in injury and/or property damage, will just buying a different phone really help you? Will it help others know about the problem? How many people would need to be injured before the "free market" corrected the problem?
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883 View Post
    If it wasn't for certain lawsuits many products would not be safe to use and companies will be more likely to take advantage of you. Taking your business elsewhere does not help once the damage is already done.

    For example, your phone battery overheats and catches on fire because of a design flaw. The fire results in injury and/or property damage, will just buying a different phone really help you? Will it help others know about the problem? How many people would need to be injured before the "free market" corrected the problem?
    Suing someone because of injury or death is a far cry from suing a company because you have a piece of crap phone.

    leonidm mentioned "ridiculios" lawsuits. Just because you're unhappy with something doesn't mean you need to cling to the first lawyer you find. I don't sue TreoCentral because of ridiculous threads, or posters.

    Quite frankly, if you buy anything from Palm, you should forfeit your right to legal action anyways. How many times do they have to kick you people in the nads before you wake up and abandon them?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. JCFox's Avatar
    Posts
    40 Posts
    Global Posts
    87 Global Posts
       #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883 View Post
    If it wasn't for certain lawsuits many products would not be safe to use and companies will be more likely to take advantage of you. Taking your business elsewhere does not help once the damage is already done.

    For example, your phone battery overheats and catches on fire because of a design flaw. The fire results in injury and/or property damage, will just buying a different phone really help you? Will it help others know about the problem? How many people would need to be injured before the "free market" corrected the problem?
    You are absolutely correct. And if you people knew the TRUTH about the famous McDonalds Coffee lawsuit, other posters would not use it as an example of lawsuits gone crazy. The coffee was 205 degrees, the coffee was accidentally spilled, causing 3rd degree burns, seven days in the hospital, and required skin grafts. The jury concluded the 84 year old victim was 20% at fault, and reduced the award accordingly. They then awarded punitive damages based on two days worth of McDonalds Coffee sales.

    The McDonalds case is not an expample of lawsuits gone wild - it is a testament to the fact that our civil law system actually works.

    Unless you are pre-disposed to believe the hype about the McDonalds case, read the truth here:

    http://www.marlerblog.com/2006/07/ar...t-coffee-case/
  10. #30  
    No
  11. vMAC's Avatar
    Posts
    217 Posts
    Global Posts
    219 Global Posts
    #31  
    I still haven't seen one post where someone has actually told me an instance when Palm lied to them about what to expect about their product? Therefore doesn't seem to me like a class action would survive. As I have said before what may seem a bug to you may be expected performance.
  12. JCFox's Avatar
    Posts
    40 Posts
    Global Posts
    87 Global Posts
       #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by vMAC View Post
    I still haven't seen one post where someone has actually told me an instance when Palm lied to them about what to expect about their product? Therefore doesn't seem to me like a class action would survive. As I have said before what may seem a bug to you may be expected performance.

    Well, for starters, that the device could be used as a Wireless Telephone!

    If I'm on a call and it resets - as it does daily - is it really fit for the purpose?

    If it is advertised as "fast" - I guess that is relative.

    At any rate, the defect list is long, and as the device was marketed and sold to me in August of last year - was false. Others may have more details. At any rate, I'm done....waiting for my BB delivery.
    =====================================================================================
    Palm Pilot, Palm Vx, Kyo 6035, Kyo 7135, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700pos and FINALLY:
    BLACKBERRY 8830, because it just WORKS!!
  13. sasq's Avatar
    Posts
    55 Posts
    Global Posts
    56 Global Posts
    #33  
    Never had the phone reset during a call. have you returned it? Does it do it without third party products installed?

    if not, then its not Palm's fault.
  14. 754boy's Avatar
    Posts
    9 Posts
    Global Posts
    151 Global Posts
    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by rotlex View Post
    Its a phone. Get over it. Mine works as advertised-blue tooth and all. Frankly, I probably won't even perform the update when it hits as I'm afraid it might break a unit that is working flawlessly.
    When I drop $500 on something, it becomes more than a phone. It had better perform EXACTLY or BETTER than advertised. You are one of the lucky few whose 700p works great, but rest assured there are lots of us whose phone doesn't.

    I don't know if class action status is necessary lol, but we just want our voices heard and problems addressed
  15. JCFox's Avatar
    Posts
    40 Posts
    Global Posts
    87 Global Posts
       #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by sasq View Post
    DELETED TEXT: Considering that the recommended brewing temperature is 200+/- 5 degrees, how is that unusual?
    http://www.boyds.com/coffee/brewingguide.html


    Never had the phone reset during a call. have you returned it? Does it do it without third party products installed?

    if not, then its not Palm's fault.
    I cook a roast in the broiler at 500 degrees - but I don't SERVE it at that temperature!

    As for resets - I gave up on 3rd party software a long time ago. Clean install and using the built in email software. Hate it, and it resets less often, but still does it at least once a day at the worst possible time.

    Oh, and this is my FOURTH 700pos.

    Like my signature says - I gave up. Just waiting for the BB to arrive...Verizon stores can't seem to keep enough in stock....I wonder why?
    =====================================================================================
    Palm Pilot, Palm Vx, Kyo 6035, Kyo 7135, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700pos and FINALLY:
    BLACKBERRY 8830, because it just WORKS!!
  16. vMAC's Avatar
    Posts
    217 Posts
    Global Posts
    219 Global Posts
    #36  
    Good luck with your 8830 I'm sure that forum can't wait to have you whining about the problems with that phone. GL
  17. JCFox's Avatar
    Posts
    40 Posts
    Global Posts
    87 Global Posts
       #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by vMAC View Post
    Good luck with your 8830 I'm sure that forum can't wait to have you whining about the problems with that phone. GL
    Interestingly enough, the www.blackberry.com forums have a lot of great information, but I've not been able to find any posts where people complain of resets, bluetooth failure, software crashes, delays, lags, waiting for service connections...or any other of the complaints we keep reading about on these pages. So, even if I wanted to whine - there's nothing to whine about.
    Last edited by JCFox; 06/03/2007 at 01:40 PM.
    =====================================================================================
    Palm Pilot, Palm Vx, Kyo 6035, Kyo 7135, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700pos and FINALLY:
    BLACKBERRY 8830, because it just WORKS!!
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by klurfdawg23 View Post
    as tastypeppers stated above, 100% correct.

    trust me im a 2nd year law student in mergers and acquisitions and my legal education isnt costing $90,000 for nothing. I do know more than a little something everyone thinks they do about law in here.
    What I am curious is ... how many lawyers with a Treo 700p that has these problems.. Not only geeks have this.. But I remember seeing that one Super mega famous lawyer having one "Mark Geragos". Maybe HE COULD initiate it for the people wanting it.. LOL.. i know fat chance but 'dare to dream'
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by JCFox View Post
    I cook a roast in the broiler at 500 degrees - but I don't SERVE it at that temperature!
    lol thats a little different than coffee/liquid, the roast never gets to a temp of 500 even if you set your oven to that. temp of the meat only maybe gets to 170. But still, who's dumb enough to eat a roast right out of the oven? You'll burn yourself of course, common sense says....

    The problem is people are actually dumb enough to drink 180-190 degree coffee WHILE driving, I mean come on. I swear people cant wait 5 min to drink it at work or when theyre stopped, they have to drink it while moving.

    Does the coffee need to be THAT hot? of course not...do people need to be idiots and drink it WHILE driving (hello bumps in the road)? no. Whats next sue the road commission for bumps/potholes in the road that made the coffee tip and spill on you?? I mean where does it ever end?? How about a counter suit for lacking any common sense?

    I also love the part about the big deal about the warning on it, extremely hot. Sheesh retarded people again. Would a warning label on a electrical outlet stop you from sticking your finger or something in it? of course not, its common sense not to electrocute yourself- not everything comes with a warning label for every potential hazard you could possibly imagine. common sense says DONT HOLD A BURNING HOT CUP OF COFFEE BETWEEN YOUR LEGS!!! common sense is something i think people in the U.S truly lack

    Just my personal opinion on the McDonald's thing as I believe there were a lot of flaws in the judgement. Anyways though....

    Quote Originally Posted by JCFox
    Well, for starters, that the device could be used as a Wireless Telephone!
    when you hit the send key it calls another phone does it not? Bluetooth is a sketchy technology as is, but the phone makes calls not using your bluetooth, so i think that statement was a bit exaggerated. I guess im just saying I think everyone is going a little overboard with this issue. The phone's not perfect but theres never any promise of a totally bug-free experience with software. I don't think anyone was directly lied to by marketing material, unless you wanna go the bluetooth headset compatibility chart- then that argument would be true for false advertising as the advertised ones that are "compatible" dont all work.

    I think everyone needs to chill out until monday and see what the freakin MR fixes first BEFORE whining about suing.

    Sure apparently a lot of people in here are pissed. But don't let emotions get confused with what's legally correct or feasible. I owned a 700p at one time i know how it feels to drop big cash and get a piece of junk. But what can you do other than learn and move on, that's life. Cut your losses as move on to another manufacturer for a PDA- now THAT that will truly hurt Palm in the long run.
    Last edited by klurfdawg23; 06/03/2007 at 06:39 AM.
  20. #40  
    I would vote to join a Class Action Suit against Palm.

    1. It would teach them a lesson that people will stand up for their rights. If I don't get a red cent out any action at least it will have cost them time and money and perhaps more(see number 2.)

    2. Anyone looking to buy Palm would have to be advised of the suit and perhaps would have second thoughts. I believe that Palm would not want any clouds on the possibility of selling their company.

    Palm would not want potential buyers to know how the hard core solid Palm users are considering dumping the company for their poor service.

    They might address the problems and settle the suit before it screws up any deals they might have pending or contemplating in the future.

    Notice how they do not want real adverse comments on their blog no matter how true the comments are. A class action suit would be picked up by the media and give them the bad publicity they so richly deserve.

    This is of course my opinion.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions