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  1. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #21  
    The blame, IMHO, cannot be placed solely on any one party. The initial problems come from Palm. First, they chose to rely on Access to provide a timely OS upgrade that could better handle multitasking and phone/network issues. Secondly, they chose a unit configuration that could be used for both OS5 and WM, a decision that left both far from perfect. Finally, they put together a very bad BT stack.

    That being said, Palm did not take the time to test whether a 700p with Chatter+ Butler+ ZLauncher works without resets or lags, or whether it works with most BT devices out there. Frankly, I don't blame them for that. The fact that such a poor BT implementation can even exist is the fault of the greedy Bluetooth SIG, who have made it far too easy to receive BT certification. And again, some of us have had virtually no BT problems. Thus, when the complaints started coming in with issues that not everyone was having, I can understand why it took them a little while to figure out how to improve the situation (actually, we'll have to see WHAT the MR brings.....I'm not at all convinced it will fix much).

    Finally, the carriers have had the MR for MONTHS. "Carrier-testing" is a misnomer....it is a back-and-forth process with Palm. Verizon is well-known for being a pain in the *** during this process.....just ask Motorola.

    There is plenty of blame to go around on this one......and I say that as someone who is very satisfied with his Verizon 700p + JX-10.
  2. efudd's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlyn_3D View Post
    If verizon beats the release harder, then how come the verizon ROM seems to have one or two more bugs than the sprint ROM?


    that IS a very good question.

    my WAG would be that verizon doesn't feel the current bugs are show stoppers- that they fell it is "good enough" and so it got approved even after they KNEW all about the issues from their intensive testing.
  3. #23  
    We will know what the Verizon hold-up is when both fixes are released.

    My version of the 700p story:

    Verizon, being the big gorilla, initially sets down what they will and will not accept in the 700p. Verizon does not like WiFi or bluetooth communications in consumer products. (They have to give in on WiFi for the 700w series because of their target market; corporate buyers.) Sprint, at that point, accepts the phone with it's limitations. It doesn't hurt them and at least gives them a phone that is competitive with what Verizon offers.

    Fast forward to the current situation. The TreoCentral forums complaints (and some on a few other places) have traction with some of the bloggers / writers out there. Doubt that? Start surfing and read posts about Palm in recent times. Six months ago they were getting nothing but positive press. Not always so right now.)

    Palm announces that they are working on a fix. They also make it clear that the release is pending carrier approval.

    Hypothesis: While working on the fix, one thing becomes clear. The restrictions put on the phone (weak bluetooth implementation, for example) to appease Verizon are a major cause of the 700P's problems. Palm's only path to correcting the phone is to restore the bluetooth to it's proper configuration. Sprint accepts Palm's fix. Verizon does not. The release date arrives and Verizon will not budge; telling Palm to go back and find a way to fix it another way.

    End result, the Verizon and Sprint 700p's become fraternal twins.

    Oh, if you think I'm a disgruntled Verizon customer... I just signed up for another year with them. First, it IS the Network. Second, they have the best customer service reps that I have ever dealt with. The CSR's out of South Carolina actually try to help when I call.
  4. #24  
    What is funny to me is if the hold up is truly the carriers then they should be fully responsible for replacing and/or giving some kind of service credit for selling the defective phones in the first place ..
    I mean correct me if im wrong the carriers (sprint/verison) had to approve the 700p before they decieded to sell it. AND..who approves this (thats who i wanna talk to) I wanna know what he or she was thinking in when they approved the phone for release in the first place? Did they test or even use the phone. Your telling me they didnt notice the laaaagggg when switching apps, are you kidding me?! So now your gonna let the same person(s)
    (i guess now since they had some time this year to look at the phone) who gave their approval the first time (and may i add should be fired) and are now using their expertise to once again approve a phone that they allowed to be sold in the first place.. what am i missing?
    STAR TAC w/TIMPORT ORGANIZER>I300>I330>TREO600>TREO650>TREO700>TREO755P
  5. #25  
    has anyone switched from VZ to Sprint, and are you happy?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by rcyphermd View Post
    has anyone switched from VZ to Sprint, and are you happy?
    I did 3 weeks ago and after getting a SERO plan, am extremely happy.
    500 anytime minutes, free EVDO, free unlimited texting, 7 p.m. nights for $10 less than what I was paying VZW for just 450 voice minutes and using their 14.4 kbps data.
    As for coverage, in my house, it's about the same. Around my area, I do roam some times (never did with VZW) but since free roaming comes with my plan, it's OK.
  7. efudd's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by rcyphermd View Post
    has anyone switched from VZ to Sprint, and are you happy?
    I didn’t switch from vz to sprint but I did switch to vz FROM sprint.

    My small business had sprint for about 6 years and we were very happy. The service was “good enough” and the huge discount in pricing you get from sprint was great. But a few years ago we moved over to Verizon- as posted a few slots above sometimes it IS the network. And hands down Verizon’s is just better (at least in the Northeast where I use it regularly). For us the plans got cheap enough and the networks were built out enough that things were relatively static so it was time to move.

    Sprint’s network is NOT shoddy by any means but Verizon’s just really is a notch better. I’d say that you can get sprint service in like 98-99 percent of the footprint of Verizon- but if having that extra 1-2% of coverage matters to you then don’t go to sprint. We can all hypothesize why- could be that Verizon had years of head start, could be that they have 800mhz which has better propagation (I think that is much of it- likely explains why you can get VZ inside more buildings and in some NYC subway stations where sprint just wont work) or it could be that Verizon just charges soo much more that they can afford an extra tower here or there (I really don’t think that’s it- how many towers do you see without 3-4 sets of antennae in this day and age?). But point is vz just has slightly better coverage (at least in the former BA-NYNEX area- cant really speak to the rest of the country) So if cost is important and you can put up with almost Verizon then switching to sprint is a great idea. If you need the best network then I wouldn’t suggest sprint.

    For me and my employees we could never go back- spoiled now- but I wouldn't say that we were unhappy on sprint.

    (again I can speak to the northeast- if you live someplace else then you should get opinions from others- I think in some areas VZ has mostly 1900 networks as they were not the ILEC so they didn’t get 800mhz handed to them. And so perhaps there is no significant difference with sprint in those areas)


    (one last bit on roaming- In the latter years of our sprint service we were able to get unlimited roaming. Since Sprint and VZ are the 2 big national CDMA networks they must have roaming agreements. I always assumed then that if there was a sprint dead spot and vz had coverage that I would get switched to roam on VZ. That’s not universally the case. Either vz limits what towers sprint can roam on so they keep their slight advantage- or sprint limits it to minimize roaming charges they have to pay VZ. Either way I can say that there were spots where with sprint we were dead dead dead and no roaming but then when we switched to vz we had vz service in those locations- so for whatever reason roaming doesn’t ALWAYS happen)
  8. #28  
    Ok... It's Monday so where is the update.....

    Question.... When you do the update, will it be like doing a hard reset? Will I need to reinstall all my programs such as Goodlink etc?
  9. #29  
    I guess the updates are released on PST. I would think once midnight hit today that the update would have been available but I guess palm had other items on its plate, like counting their new cash infusion.
  10. #30  
    Personally I don't blame the carrier's they are probably testing the MR Update for bugs and flaws. Sprint came out with there release first because they are not the through as Verizon. I have Sprint and there customer service sucks. I hope the carriers find all the bugs in the MR before it hits the market. Palm you suck! You release the 700P without testing thoroughly to find all of the bugs. Palm you are 100% at fault here maybe if you produce a quality product the carriers would have to thoroughly test your MR all the time. If I was a cell phone carrier I would test the hell out of there products to make sure it worked as promised.
  11. efudd's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagbklyn View Post
    I guess the updates are released on PST. I would think once midnight hit today that the update would have been available but I guess palm had other items on its plate, like counting their new cash infusion.

    I figure 5PM pacific time is the cutoff.

    If it's not posted by quiting time, it's not likely to go up at all today. So like 7 hours to go to see if their "expectation" was reality?
  12. #32  
  13. efudd's Avatar
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    #33  
    yup- saw that 3 seconds after I posted-

    LOL

    no the verizon, alltel, et al users have to hurry up and wait. UNless the rom folks can figure out this flavor....
  14. #34  
    Have any VZ users tried pushing for a BB8830 as a free upgrade?
  15. efudd's Avatar
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    #35  
    seems no joy in mudville for VZ, Alltel, etc in extracting the files from the sprint download to at least patch the thing in ram.

    maybe someone generous with a sprint version can upload the rom so at least we can patch that way....
  16. #36  
    Just an update on the update. It went through no problem, just some initial observations is that it deleted my favorites screen, also now they delay has moved to the web screen. So when you click on the web button the screen goes white for 5 seconds. Way to go Palm, move the delay screen elsewhere.
  17. #37  
    The problem is simple. Verizon sucks and I will never go back to them, even if they ever have the exclusive on the greatest phone ever. Love Sprint..!!

    Al
  18. #38  
    OK I have Alltel. (Good service, great network that Verizon uses heavily, good plans.) Just finally upgraded to the 700p, and it is a BIG upgrade from the 650. However I see that no "upgrade is required" for Alltel, according to the Palm website. Does this just mean there aren't enough people complaining from Alltel, because it is a smaller network, or is it possible that some of the upgrades were already incorporated in the Alltel model, as it was released a while after Sprint & Verizon?
    MTT
    Handspring Visor, Palm V, HS Treo 180, HS Treo 90, P1 Treo 600, P1 Treo 650, Palm Treo 700p... still hanging tough with Palm OS
  19. efudd's Avatar
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    #39  
    "no upgrade required" just means you have the latest released software. They have nothing better to offer you.
  20. #40  
    I am not necessarily suprised that the Verizon update is either held up, or taking longer as Verizon 700ps had more issues than Sprint phones did, namely with the SMS lockup issue triggered by the delivery receipt that Verizon provides that Sprint does not...
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