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  1.    #1  
    A few of you may be aware that Iambic Software has released a "free" RSS reader called "Top Story." The application license makes no mention that it is supported by adware and no indication is given that when uninstalled, files are left on the device. The license indicates that advertisements may be received; however, it does not state that the application is supported by adware and that they are looking at "residual" benefits to it being on the device. As a note, Iambic does not consider it unethical to do this without obtaining permission or providing notice.

    Ben
  2. #2  
    Just another day in the life of Iambic, I would say.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    A few of you may be aware that Iambic Software has released a "free" RSS reader called "Top Story." The application license makes no mention that it is supported by adware and no indication is given that when uninstalled, files are left on the device. The license indicates that advertisements may be received; however, it does not state that the application is supported by adware and that they are looking at "residual" benefits to it being on the device. As a note, Iambic does not consider it unethical to do this without obtaining permission or providing notice.

    Ben
    Who at Iambic stated this?
    Moose Man
    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    iPhone 3G, Treo 750, 680, 650, 600 and T5, T3, T, M515, M505, Vx, V, Prizm, Visor, IIIc, IIIe, Palm Pilot Professional, Palm Pilot (ok boys and girls a whopping 128k of memory - those were the days) and former Palm Beta tester.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ..As a note, Iambic does not consider it unethical to do this without obtaining permission or providing notice...
    Does anyone really find that surprising?
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gamble View Post
    Does anyone really find that surprising?
    Having been on the inside at Iambic (in the past) and having direct phone conversations with Adriano - I do find that surprising....hence the reason I asked the question.

    Iambic had their issue in the past - 1999 in hijacking the Datebk 4 web reference - for which they apologized and there has been a change in managment since then so to state that they are looking at "residual" benefits if the program is deleted is close to unethical and it does need to be clarified.

    If you unistall Datebk 6 - it leaves residual program databases installed. It does not cleanly unistall. For that matter - I feel most Palm programs that install supplmental databases don't properly unistall. Hence the reason I use Resco Explorer to unistall any of my test programs.

    If Iambic is knowingly leaving residual programs that are harmful to the user then I'll stand up with all of you but if the program leaves "databases" installed because they are not associated and properly removed by the Palm unistaller then lets not condemn them without some actual facts.

    There are no specifics mentioned as to what program files are left so I suspect that this is a flame rather then a fact but I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if my theory is correct.

    And Bill - as a Moderator - I suspect that your response is bordering on unethical as part of that position.
    Last edited by RSGMOOSE; 05/20/2007 at 07:47 PM.
    Moose Man
    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    iPhone 3G, Treo 750, 680, 650, 600 and T5, T3, T, M515, M505, Vx, V, Prizm, Visor, IIIc, IIIe, Palm Pilot Professional, Palm Pilot (ok boys and girls a whopping 128k of memory - those were the days) and former Palm Beta tester.
  6. #6  
    Hi everyone,
    Please see here.
    -Michael
    iambic, Inc.
    www.iambic.com
  7. #7  
    Well, the EULA may be the way to avoid legal issues, but it wont save you in the court of public opinion.

    Do you have any stats on how many people actually read these things? Not many, I'd wager.

    So, go ahead and hitch your wagon to the EULA and just see how much sympathy it garners you. I mean, when will vendors get it? Be up front with your customers. If you're going to do anything that will make them think twice, put it front row center in your marketing script. Depend on a EULA for anything like this and you are definitely risking your customer's ire, whether or not you are on firm legal grounds.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by RSGMOOSE View Post
    And Bill - as a Moderator - I suspect that your response is bordering on unethical as part of that position.
    I've never been a moderator, but I don't think one is required to check one's opinions at the door in order to be one.

    Indeed, I would be much dismayed if I found out that moderators were muzzled by virtue of their agreement with TC. Censorship is never a good thing.
  9. adriano72's Avatar
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    #9  
    Hi,

    I'm sorry -- as much as I'm trying to understand... I can't quite grasp what I did do wrong.

    OK, so I deliver ads in addition to newsfeeds... I thought my creators made that clear enough, EULA aside, through the pages of the website. Over there they showcase me running on various devices, and pretty much every screenshot shows at the very top the area where the ad is presented.

    Ads allow my creators to provide me for free, since some of the costs of running the service will, hopefully one day, get covered by the revenue generated through advertising.

    Again, if someone could clarify, that would help me relay over (through RSS of course ) the message and have my creators take corrective actions.

    Thanks

    - TopStory
  10. #10  
    Again.....?
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

    My beer blogs:

    Rev. Rhino on Flickr

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  11.    #11  
    There has been discussed via PM at another site. Datebook 6 has nothing to do with this discussion. The creator never said it did or did not, never said whatever and frankly, I am not interested in the comparison - no value to it.

    Installing adware on a device without telling someone is unethical. I read the license, always read the license before installing an application - have done this for a couple of years. If the license indicates something I do not like, I may or may not continue with the application; however, if I do continue with the application, not a word will I mumble about what I find questionable. Not a word.

    Adware such as this is also termed as spyware - no difference. Spyware has no place. Adware if the user is aware of it has a place. The license did not indicate it. The license indicated I may receive advertisement, nothing said about anything leaving my device. Nothing. Nadda.

    I frankly have no problem paying for my software. If I like it, I buy it. Always have. Donations have been made for a number of freeware applications.

    The Treo 600/650 are devices that do not have an abundance of free memory. Every bit of free memory on these devices is important.

    As far as the website, I did not look at that. I read the message, "as a gift," did the request form, got the link and downloaded. Never saw the website. Again, let me make it very plain, I read the license. After I noticed it was adware, I reread the license. No mention of it being adware.

    To state that a moderator cannot have an opinion is hog wash. Bill is a user as I am a user. His opinions are important to all of us here. His experience is important to all of here. His opinion and experience should be important to you as a developer. His insight is excellent. His advise is excellent. I am also rather well informed with these devices; however, my schedule does not allow me to do much more than "notify" and rarely do I followup in detail unless it is extremely important for me. Bill is a much better source than I am in all respects.

    Be up front, that is what we expect. You want us to be up front and pay for the applications we use. We want you to be up front with us by writing a good application, supporting that application, and being honest in what it does. If you cannot be honest, then frankly you do not need to be writing applications.

    All, please click on the link and you will see what steps they took, though nothing there that indicates they did anything wrong.

    Ben
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    There has been discussed via PM at another site. Datebook 6 has nothing to do with this discussion. The creator never said it did or did not, never said whatever and frankly, I am not interested in the comparison - no value to it.

    Installing adware on a device without telling someone is unethical. I read the license, always read the license before installing an application - have done this for a couple of years. If the license indicates something I do not like, I may or may not continue with the application; however, if I do continue with the application, not a word will I mumble about what I find questionable. Not a word.

    Adware such as this is also termed as spyware - no difference. Spyware has no place. Adware if the user is aware of it has a place. The license did not indicate it. The license indicated I may receive advertisement, nothing said about anything leaving my device. Nothing. Nadda.

    I frankly have no problem paying for my software. If I like it, I buy it. Always have. Donations have been made for a number of freeware applications.

    The Treo 600/650 are devices that do not have an abundance of free memory. Every bit of free memory on these devices is important.

    As far as the website, I did not look at that. I read the message, "as a gift," did the request form, got the link and downloaded. Never saw the website. Again, let me make it very plain, I read the license. After I noticed it was adware, I reread the license. No mention of it being adware.

    To state that a moderator cannot have an opinion is hog wash. Bill is a user as I am a user. His opinions are important to all of us here. His experience is important to all of here. His opinion and experience should be important to you as a developer. His insight is excellent. His advise is excellent. I am also rather well informed with these devices; however, my schedule does not allow me to do much more than "notify" and rarely do I followup in detail unless it is extremely important for me. Bill is a much better source than I am in all respects.

    Be up front, that is what we expect. You want us to be up front and pay for the applications we use. We want you to be up front with us by writing a good application, supporting that application, and being honest in what it does. If you cannot be honest, then frankly you do not need to be writing applications.

    All, please click on the link and you will see what steps they took, though nothing there that indicates they did anything wrong.

    Ben
    Well then, someone is going to have to create an application that removes everything made by Iambic and all that it comes with. It WILL sell, muhaha.

    Thanks for the info guys. I now know Iambic's practices....
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by RSGMOOSE View Post
    And Bill - as a Moderator - I suspect that your response is bordering on unethical..
    I'm not unethical...just cursed with a long memory.
    V > Vx > m505 > m515 > T/T > T3 > TC > 650 > 680
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  14. adriano72's Avatar
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    #14  
    bclinger, et al.

    thank you for your feedback and for clarifying the source of confusion. My creators over at iambic have taken the following steps in order to clear out doubts:

    - updated the website copy to mention about the advertisements appearing in the top area of my dialogs
    - mentioned the advertisements in the message that is sent to users requesting their free download.
    - further clarified the EULA to be easier to follow

    In regards to the files left over upon uninstall, manual removal steps are available here:

    http://support.iambic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28861

    and the problem will be corrected as part of ongoing updates.

    Regards,

    - TopStory
  15.    #15  
    The link at the end of your message - does shown that it has been updated:

    Relevant Advertising:

    Thanks to un-obtrusive advertisements placed in the top area of the screen, users are presented with shopping ideas relevant to their personal interests.


    Ben
  16. twitch3's Avatar
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    #16  
    So does all Iambic software talk?
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Edge (Upgraded for $100.00 just by giving them the Serial # of my Visor Deluxe plus I got to keep the Deluxe. Those were the days!)-> Palm M-505->M-515->Tungsten T->Zire 72->Treo 650->->Treo 700P->Treo 755P. Plus various replacements. 8130 Pearl....Sorry
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by topstory View Post
    bclinger, et al.

    - further clarified the EULA to be easier to follow- TopStory
    How about maybe fixing the link if you haven't already on the download form.

    Then it would be even easier to follow.
    In the form you have/had the link:
    http://www.iambic.com/topstory/eula.htm

    In your support forums:
    http://support.iambic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28861

    You have the link as:
    http://www.iambic.com/topstory/eula.html

    One works, one doesn't.

    Also, if you've further clarified the EULA, maybe you might also change the part where it says "Last Modified April 16/2007".

    Thanks.

    Signed:
    CBowers' computer.

    --
    Don't anthropomorphize computers and software apps... They hate that.
  18. adriano72's Avatar
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    #18  
    cbowers,

    thank you for pointing out the incorrect link -- that has been taken care of.

    twitch3,

    not all software from iambic talks, I'm the first example of this... but I know my creators are working on their other titles to talk-enable them as well

    - TopStory
  19. #19  
    This "talking app" stuff makes me deeply suspicious.

    I'm not interested in hearing from fictional characters; it's like trying to have a reasonable conversation with somebody in a Mickey Mouse suit.

    Please register as and act like a real person. I have a couple of Iambic products, but this behavior plus other examples of Iambic's marketing excess make me more likely to go with a vendor that both acts like and treats me like a real person.

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