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  1. #21  
    not to mention poorly located number "0" (zero) on E61 keyboard. I just hate it
  2. #22  
    Spec wise, the E61 was great.

    All the different versions of symbian really hurts 3rd part software. Also development for it is a pain.

    Add to it that "Phone" functionality is an afterthought it is not really that great of device.
  3. sindu's Avatar
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    #23  
    what about Samsung Black Jack ??? I have been using Black Jack for 2 weeks now and it seems I am going to finally dump my 680. Granted I miss POS and the Agendus and the Chatter but I am beginning to like the form factor of Black Jack. As a matter of fact, I had ordered my IT department to buy loads of them to equip our sales team to save cost on long distance call via Skype, to save cost on download email on hot spot instead of GPRS, and seamless integration with the Outlook. BTW, I use Mac and I am the only Mac user in the whole corporation and I was the only Palm OS user (soon to be ex).

    I am still fiddling with it and I don't have problem synch it with my Mac.
    Need WIFI, 3.5G, slim and light form factor for Treo to win me back from Samsung i600 !!!!!
  4. ediamond's Avatar
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    #24  
    Hmmm. I can't speak to the E61, I have the E61i. Different phone. Here's the thing about offending apps: Symbian will not let you install apps that are not certified to work on S60v3. Believe me I tried. Having said that, there are 3rd party file browsers, but really the less I have to twiddle with stuff like that the better. I am a relatively simple user. My phone is my info repository and communicator. Mail, IM, SMS, Serial numbers, GPS (TomTom), Camera (for using ScanR) and a Hebrew dicitionary is about everything for me. Maybe a few utilities. No games, no video, no MP3 players.

    The E61i has 60 MB of RAM, about 40 of which is available for fun and games. After installing my apps on it, I have about 20 MB left.

    Touch screen...we'll yeah you have a point, though there are plusses and minuses to a touch screen. Having been used to a touch screen since the early days of newton, i do miss it, but not too much. It is a tiny bit slower at some things than the palm but it is hardly noticable.

    What I do like is to have a device a half inch thick that runs bluetooth all day and keeps a constant connection to the internet and still has 80% battery at the end of the day. Never could do that on a Treo. I like the fact that syncing to the mac is fast and works flawlessly without having to purchase a $40 third party product. I like the all metallic casing.

    After playing with the Nokia, the Palm OS is just too far behind. There is no reason in the world why the Treo needs to be as thick and heavy as it is, and have a battery that lasts only a day if you are lucky. I was a Palm user from way back, but when you combine the lackluster performance of the 680, the clunky form factor, outdated OS and terrible customer service (I sent them my 650 and I never got my trade-in check), I am starting to suspect that Palm doesn't deserve or particularly want my business.

    There is a market out there with with very very good smartphones. Blackjack, Dash, N95 and the iPhone. Palm has fewer and fewer opportunities to get it right before they become the dinosaur of PDA's.
  5. #25  
    Don't know about the E61i as I had an E61.

    It did have some plusses, and you are right, the form factor was one of them - big time.

    I also had an awesome GPS software (www.66.com) not sure if I will find tomtom to be comparable or not when I get my 680 on Tuesday.

    Push e-mail on the E61 was pretty good with seven, and a co-worker had blackberry connect and had similar good things to say.

    But at least on the E61 - the phone app sucked real bad. My Treo 600 was sooo much better in that respect. I'm hoping Palm has it down even better by now.
  6. dakis's Avatar
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    #26  
    I had a Treo 680 but went back to a Blackberry 7290 last week. I just couldn't get push email work decently on the Treo - and that's really what I want from smartphone with a QWERTY keyboard - what else would be the point of that keyboard?

    Anyway - I tried chatter - total catastrophy. It crashed all the time and battery drain was terrible. Also, I heard it's no longer maintained, so that's pretty much the end of it. I used Microsoft Directpush with two different providers (mail2web, cortado.com) - worked for a while but was entirely unreliable. Also, my data bill went up dramatically since Directpush doesn't seem to be doing a very good job compressing the packages - that also means a lot more battery drain and more radiation because more volume is transmitted.

    Anyway - to return to the topic: the BB 7290 is a very sturdy and stable smartphone with excellent and reliable e-mail. But's it's kinda old-fashioned and there are hardly any apps for it (no Avantgo that's desktop-syncable, for example), so I'm also looking at the E61i now. Great keyboard, fabulous screen and, most importantly for me, Blackberry Connect.

    Why can't Palm make Blackberry Connect work with all carriers and with BIS? The Treo 680 would be the phone of my dreams if that existed.

    dakis
  7. #27  
    I was using seven always-on-mail Internet edition. I worked well on the E61 and they have a palm client.

    However, they are shutting down that service - unfortunately.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    Out there, the Symbian community cant help much cos the new Symbian file explorer is crippled by Symbian its self. Ie,Symbian has decided to lock you out from prying into the phones inards.
    On Palm we hv the file browser like filez n explorer that allows u to delete what ever offending part from the set. Palm also have the Uninstaller that allows u to delete everything u put in previously. On Symbian???????
    You need to be carefull not to compare apples with oranges: while Symbian may come with a criplled File Browser, at least they ship with one preinstalled. On a PalmOS device I don't have an app like that at all if I'm not mistaken. You mentioned yourself that on a Palm plattform there are some good apps out there but so are some good apps for Symbian available that let you browser more than what the built in app lets you.

    anderas
    treopolis -the German treo site

    Now in beta testing: treopolis 2.0
  9. #29  
    Smartphones and PDAPhones are quite expensive in Malaysia, but even then, I only had an E61 (USD460) for about 5 months before selling it off to get a Treo 680 (USD555 - freakin' expensive).

    The Treo 680 is no walk in the park and it's got its fair share of bugs/issues/problems, but I just prefer the feel of PalmOS phone to that of a SymbianOS one.
  10. ediamond's Avatar
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    #30  
    Fair enough. I too am comfortable with Palm OS, having used it since the original Pilot. However, for the amount of time I have HAD to spend here just to get the battery to hold a charge properly, get decent volume and wrangle db cache issues and all the myriad other problems with the phone...with little or no real support from Palm...it's disappointing. The very fact that an application like VolumeCare has to exist means that Palm is not doing their job. The fact that it has existed through 3 OS revisions and 2 phone models is pure craziness.

    I think for me at the end of the day I bought into the whole Smartphone idea to make me more productive. I found with all the wrangling I was becoming less productive, not more. And I guess I am just a little bit angry at Palm the company. I really want to like the Palm. I think in many ways the Palm OS is great. But Palm seems to demonstrate time and time again that they can't find their a** with both hands. When I stop to think about all the things that were really great about Palm, they were all from third party developers.

    Take Chattermail. Here is probably the best mobile email app out there, period. Everyone knows it. So instead of recognizing the fact that there is a significant user base on the 650 and using the design in the next treo to enhance that relationship, what do they do? They throw roadblocks in front of Chatter by crippling the battery life. I went from push email in the 650 to having to check mail every 15 minutes just to make it through a day on a battery. Whereas once I felt smug in the face of crackberry users (yeah I have pushmail AND synchronization to my server) now I felt...disappointment.

    Yeah, smaller is better, but I have a Nokia with a 1200 mAh battery in my nokia that is half as thin as the Palm 1200 mAh OEM battery. And the Nokia goes for about a week without charging. That's with a color screen, Push email always on, IM running in the background. The only difference is that the palm has a touch screen. It can't be that much of a power suck, can it? I just can't help but feel that the 680 is a step backward, and Palm's marketing strategy of "this an entry level phone for mobile-accomplishers" is to me a total cop out.

    To all you who are loving your Treo 680, power to you (you'll need it--sorry couldn't resist the pun). Enjoy your phone. I hope Palm can pull itself out of the pit it has dug and I'll be back to see what they do with this new Linux on Garnet thing they are working on. In the meantime, I must sadly move on and be productive.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sindu View Post
    what about Samsung Black Jack ??? I have been using Black Jack for 2 weeks now and it seems I am going to finally dump my 680. Granted I miss POS and the Agendus and the Chatter but I am beginning to like the form factor of Black Jack. As a matter of fact, I had ordered my IT department to buy loads of them to equip our sales team to save cost on long distance call via Skype, to save cost on download email on hot spot instead of GPRS, and seamless integration with the Outlook. BTW, I use Mac and I am the only Mac user in the whole corporation and I was the only Palm OS user (soon to be ex).

    I am still fiddling with it and I don't have problem synch it with my Mac.
    hows the battery? Do you have email set to auto sync?
    Fred
    Cingular 680
  12. #32  
    No, I wouldn't jump into the E61. But I jump backward into the 650, Loving it all the way. Overall the 650 feels more solid than the 680. There is a creaking sound whenever i press the dial button on the 680. As a phone 650 is more convienance to dial. Better at taking out of the waist pouch with the antenna acting as a handle. and a little thing like battery life. Sadly I will missed the 680 non static bluetooth earphone.
  13. #33  
    I skipped the 650. The creaking of the 680 is odd, I have it too.

    But wow, does the battery ever suck on the 680. E61 wins there big time - as well as about every other device I have ever owned. I see rumors of a ROM update - I hope it comes true. A bigger same form factor battery would also be nice - I see the sedio one has had mixed reviews.
  14. ediamond's Avatar
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    #34  
    The battery life is awesome. You can use it all day and I have yet to see it go below all bars. Most of the time I recharge every night just out of habit. Mail is a tiny bit clunkier than chatter, but it is still quite usable and I get 90% of push (notification gets pushed but mail still has to be retrieved) out of my mail. I also have built in IM that seems to run in the background and doesn't drain the battery all, nor does it work over SMS.
  15. #35  
    i just made the jump last week into an e61i. for a business user-it totally blows any treo away. push email is available and works VERY well. the e61i has a much better rf signal, wifi etc-specs/build wise is is just far superior-and it NEVER resets. the downside is it is a bit clunkier-but you can get used to it. the software offerrings are quite limited compared to palm but they may evolve-again this phone was targeted to the business user.
    the e61i is just a newer more complete product-CATCH UP PALM!!!

    btw- if anyone wants a great deal on my backup 680-it is for sale on ebay under username zandserv....
  16. #36  
    correction: username is now rn75225....
  17. #37  
    I'll be talking about the compairson to the 680 in my E61i review coming soon. In the meantime, there are things to like, things to no like. My Treo is still in my hands, that should say enough .

    The battery life is freaking awesome. BT headphones all day plus polling an Excahnge Account and ti didnt even shiver any. If my 680 was that good, it would be perfect.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  18. dakis's Avatar
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    #38  
    I finally took the plunge and sold my Treo 680 in favor of an E61. There were two reasons for this:

    1. the Treo doesn't support Blackberry Internet Services
    2. battery life

    I've had the E61 for a couple of days now and thought I'd give you a quick comparison from my point of view:


    Display:

    both phones have great displays. The Treo's is a bit bigger but the E61's is better readable in bright sunlight. Result: Tie

    Keyboard:

    Both phones have QWERTY keyboards. I always found the Treo's keys somewhat crammed - but I liked their tight and precise feeling. The keys on the nokia are further apart but they're rather soft and less precise. I personally prefer the Treo's keys although I don't think I'm typing slower on the E61 now. I guess this is a matter of personal taste - in other reviews (e.g. the one on OSNews), the E61 is clearly the winner in this area.
    The keyboard layout on the E61 is different but it's very easy to get used to.

    result: 1 point for the Treo

    Phone:

    I hated the phone app on the Treo. The E61 is much better organized, has a very powerful voice dialing and voice command capabilities and very good reception. result: 1 point for the E61

    Connectivity:

    Well, you guessed it: the Treo doesn't do UMTS and it doesn't do WLAN. That really sucks - come on, Palm!
    The E61 has both - and it does SIP-calling (VoIP) with both, too. I successfully set up SIP in less than 10 minutes. Call quality for internet calls is excellent and I can use public WLAN hotspots to make cheap calls from all over the world. 1 point awarded to the E61

    Push E-Mail:

    The Treo supports Microsoft DirectPush (+ Blackberry ES if you happen to be on Cingular / AT&T). The E61 does DirectPush and Blackberry (both BES and BIS) on any network that supports it. I have used DirectPush for a while and found it massively lacking. The data compression isn't as good as Blackberry's so your data bill will go up and, because more data is transferred, battery life will suffer. DirectPush (at least in combination with Versamail, which is the only Palm app that supports it) can only handle one FROM-address which also sucks if you want to access both your private and business mail from your smartphone.
    The E61 does Blackberry perfectly and without a major drop in battery life. I also found the E61's e-mail application massively more intuitive. It's very badly documented, though - the keyboard shortcuts aren't described anywhere, for example. Result: 1 point for the E61

    Speed:

    Some people here wrote that the E61 is slow. Honest to god - I have no idea what you're talking about. The phone's just as snappy as the Treo. No lags anywhere even when bluetooth, WLAN and UMTS are on at the same time.
    Result: tie

    Stability:

    I have had other Symbian OS devices and they all sucked in terms of stability. I've only had the E61 for a couple of days and it never crashed on me. The Treo would crash or reboot about twice a day. I'm going with a tie here, but only because I don't have enough experience with the E61 concerning this. Result: tie

    Software:

    There's not much to be discussed on that one: there are TONS of software title available for the Treo. There isn't as much available for Series 60 but the there are a couple of hundred high quality apps here, too.
    I have the following 3rd party apps on the E61 - PVPlayer (a video player), WorldMate (the E61 comes with a free 3-year subscription to WorldMate), Adobe PDF, a ZIP manager, MobiPocket Reader, Handy Safe (for storing passwords), Google Maps, Google Mail App, GoTalkMobile (a google talk client), Opera Mini and a tetris clone (S-Tris 2). That's about all I had on my Treo as well, with one annoying exception: there's no Avantgo for Series 60 3rd edition. Because of the latter: 1 point for the Treo

    Battery life:

    my Treo didn't last a single day on a full charge with DirectPush on and moderate usage (30mins of listening to MP3s, 4 5-minute phone calls, about 30 e-mails in, about 10 out). I've only charged the E61 once over night when I got it 3 days ago. Bluetooth on, UMTS on, Blackberry on, WLAN on occasionally. Same usage. The battery is at 80% charge now. No further comment necessary. Result: 1 point for the E61

    Multimedia:

    Both phones have great multimedia features. They both have video playback, they both do MP3 perfectly, MMS available in both.
    The E61 doesn't have a camera but the E61i has one - I bought the E61 because it DOESN'T have a camera - they're not thrilled about cameras at my workplace. If you need a camera, go for the E61i which is essentially the same phone otherwise.
    I never used the cam in my Treo, mainly because the resolution sucks.
    Result: tie


    Conclusion: Treo 2 points, E61 4 points

    there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the E61 is the better smartphone. It's stable, fast, easy to use, has great battery life, supports Blackberry BIS and has much better connectivity (UMTS + WLAN, VoIP calling etc). Costs about the same as the Treo.
    The Palm platform is great - but it's been on the decline for years, while Symbian Series 60 is gaining massively. The new E90 communicator uses the same OS, so we'll be seeing a lot of additional new apps very soon.
    I'll certainly give Palm a try again once they have their new Linux-based OS ready and once they can finally deliver in terms of UMTS and WLAN capability.
  19. #39  
    I find it interesting that you find the E61 phone app better. I found the exact opposite.

    The E61 has annoying pop-up messages that come up and block dialing that can be a real pain. There is also no way to dial by letters. I find the reception to be about on par, but the audio quality of the treo seems better to me.

    Where the E61 really wins is battery life and form factor - it is so much smaller.

    The WLAN was nice when i first got the E61, but the lack of roaming between GPRS and WLAN makes it less useful.
  20. dakis's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by rhawley View Post

    The E61 has annoying pop-up messages that come up and block dialing that can be a real pain. There is also no way to dial by letters. I find the reception to be about on par, but the audio quality of the treo seems better to me.

    The WLAN was nice when i first got the E61, but the lack of roaming between GPRS and WLAN makes it less useful.
    well - what I like about the E61s phone app is the fact that you can just start typing a number when you're on the home screen rather than having to push a button first. I always found the Treo's phone application somewhat clumsy.

    Considering the roaming issue: I doubt that'll ever be a problem for me but I do agree that they should work on that. Is there another phone that can pull this off?
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