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  1.    #1  
    I got the chance to play with my first iPOD today (I know I'm in the gadget stone-age). Aside from the coolness factor the most impressive thing was that it worked flawlessly. No skipping, no reboots, no extra software required to help me figure out what Apple's bugs are! Granted this is a device with just one purpose but it was very impressive. It made me think "I bet the iPhone will work just as well"

    Then I suffered through what has to be about the 500th reset since I got my 700P. What happened? I tapped the cycle indefinitely button in pTunes! Owning a 700P is like running Windows95, "it doesn't work, well it kinda works... no, it never REALLY works." If you want me to use your device instead of an iPOD or worse yet an iPHONE, don't you think that it ought to work at least nearly as well as an iPOD? I mean the skipping thing with music is just unconscionable! You give us a free copy of pTunes and it doesn't really work. Who am I doing business with? Microsoft? Adding insult to injury is the uninstaller, deleting an application should delete ALL of it, not leave bits and pieces behind that make my device slower and more unstable. Again I ask who am I doing business with? Microsoft? I even had to buy software to make it loud enough to be heard!

    I cannot imagine that ANY Apple device would be released to the public with such glaring flaws in the BASIC software it CAME with!! I've owned a "Pilot" since the 1000! What made my Pilot so cool was that it simply worked. I went from 'power off' to finding the phone number I was looking for in seconds, not minutes. "My device never blue screens" I crowed. When someone asked if anybody had the number for... I always won that race! Now, it's "well if I can just get it to turn on... ok switch to address bo... Damn, it rebooted." I expect that adding capabilities to my Treo might make it unstable, I've installed some third party software that has made a real mess of my Pilot but the base software always just worked all the time, every time. I cannot say the same for my Treo.

    I have a suggestion. Why don't you (PALM) develop a software certification program for developers? Palm would certify that a software that I'm buying would interoperate with all of the software that comes with the 700P base ROM image, at least. It would be really nice if you added some of the most popular titles to the "interoperability suite." How would you pay for this? Developers would pay a fee to have you test it and then they would pass that cost on to us consumers. I will admit that this will make my Treo more costly to enhance BUT after all, I paid $400+ for it I can certainly afford a few more dollars to ensure that it might actually make it through an entire day without a reset.

    Lastly, I have to warn you that if the maintenace release that's on the horizon doesn't make my Treo considerably more reliable then the 700P will be my last Palm product. I think I speak for a lot of very frustrated Treo users. Please make sure you've got it right this time.
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
  2. #2  
    I hate to say this being a big apple fan and having an all apple house.. But the iPhone is going to be a big disapointment to smartphone users. I have no doubt it will be a great consumer phone like a normal phone but in no way will it be as good as the treo's are blackberrys. And my best guess is the battery life will be horrible...
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewAz View Post
    I hate to say this being a big apple fan and having an all apple house.. But the iPhone is going to be a big disapointment to smartphone users. I have no doubt it will be a great consumer phone like a normal phone but in no way will it be as good as the treo's are blackberrys. And my best guess is the battery life will be horrible...
    It's too soon to say, but I disagree with your assessment. I think there's a lot that people aren't quite seeing with the future of the iPhone. The mere platform that Apple is introducing with the iPhone is the best thing about it. Not only is it a slick interface, but it's running a real slimmed down version of a desktop OS on there, that introduces so much potential for applications, etc. Think about it, they wouldn't go through the trouble of putting that OS on there if they didn't have big plans for it in the future, it'd be a total waste of money and resources.

    Keep in mind we didn't see everything there was to see about the iPhone, it's pretty obvious there are still issues they're having since the pulled quite a few Leopard engineers to help finish the iPhone's software by June. Heck, they even pushed back the release of Leopard because of it. Right now it may not look like much, but I'd bet good money that even smartphone users will like it what it will offer in the future.
  4. haroldo's Avatar
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    #4  
    I am not very good about predicting the future, but I think anything based upon a touch screen will be very limited in it's appeal. I never use the touch screen on my Treo, for a reason...it's not easy to use (compared to a keyboard or the five way button).
    The iPhone has the wow factor, so every 17 year old will want one (and so will their moms), but for power users (see other thread), I can't see many switching.
    Just my two cents.

    ... the iPhone, it's pretty obvious there are still issues they're having since the pulled quite a few Leopard engineers to help finish the iPhone's software by June. Heck, they even pushed back the release of Leopard because of it.
    Call me skeptical, but I don't know if I believe this. I think an engineer capable of designing and working on an Leopard can't just pick up and become an iPhone engineer (maybe they can, I don't know).
    Aren't they completely different products? Isn't software engineering a real specialty? Or can you just drop one thing and pick up the other?
    Can you be a heart surgeon and then the hospital administrator one day ask you to help pick up the slack in brain surgery and you say, "...sure, no problem, I'll help out!"
    I am not saying they are being dishonest, but since I believe in conspiracies...here is how I see it.
    Due to the success of the current marketing campaign, Mac Books are selling well. Why stop selling the current OS? Wait a little and milk it a little longer. As soon as they release Leopard they will get a ton of upgrade sales. So they take the very popular current OS into the back to school season and do a great job, then bring out the upgrade and get a second wave of sales.
    Maybe I'm crazy, but that is how I see it.
    Last edited by haroldo; 04/20/2007 at 06:59 PM.
  5. #5  
    With version 1.0 having a closed OS, it isn't even a smartphone. I would be intrigued if it's running a slim version of MacOS that will be opened up eventually, but the first version isn't it. It will be another overpriced feature phone out of the gate. As for no buttons, I agree a touchscreen isn't the way to go- OEM's like Palm, Rim (Blackberry), et. al. put keyboards and function buttons on their devices for a reason. Nice try, Apple...when is version 2 coming out?
  6. #6  
    Just to let you in on a secret - the Treo series does so much more than an iPod and because of that and its open architecture, things do happen. I and bunches of others have no problems with our devices. Ben
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Just to let you in on a secret - the Treo series does so much more than an iPod and because of that and its open architecture, things do happen. I and bunches of others have no problems with our devices. Ben
    Well said!

    Even though you can add games and other small-source programs to the iPod, you cannot compare the iPod to the Treo! Its a computer with many times the potential than an iPod. This doesnt excuse the problems the Treo has on some issues, but lets compare apples (pun intended) with oranges...
  8. #8  
    As for the touch screen, if given the choice between it and the jog wheel, the touch screen wins. No one has gotten touch screen itis, yet the jog wheel malady is well known. When my wife had her last BB, she was gloating over the jog wheel; when I gave her the 650 when I up'd to the 700p, the BB in her mind was dead. The jog wheel was dead. Tap places you immediately where you want. If you want to get to the end of the screen, then jog yourself to death or tap once.

    Ben
  9.    #9  
    Ok, I'm sure that all electronic devices have their issues, I'm also quite impressed with the capabilities of my Treo. When you consider the form factor it really is quite a feat of engineering. I am quite convinced that most of my Treo problems are the result of 3rd party software. That being said I still tghink that Palm needs to take a lead role in providing a platform from which both developers and consumers can be reasonably assured that their applications will function properly. I own a Treo because of the availability of these apps, I think many other people bought theirs for the same reason. The problem, IMHO, is that even though 3rd party software may be the culprit it makes my TREO reset thereby creating a kind of guilt by association situation. If Palm had a "certified by Palm" platform then I really could only blame myself for owning bad software.
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    As for the touch screen, if given the choice between it and the jog wheel, the touch screen wins. No one has gotten touch screen itis, yet the jog wheel malady is well known. When my wife had her last BB, she was gloating over the jog wheel; when I gave her the 650 when I up'd to the 700p, the BB in her mind was dead. The jog wheel was dead. Tap places you immediately where you want. If you want to get to the end of the screen, then jog yourself to death or tap once.

    Ben
    Not to keep following you, but youre on target! Being able to point exactly to where you need to be is time-saving! However, it needs to be coupled with tactile forms of imput...hard buttons like the Treo has. A near-buttonless device like an iPhone will require constant looking at the device. The Treo can be operated without looking for some functions, and that makes it faster still!
  11. #11  
    Just to throw a wet blanket on Apple fans' gloating- my brand new 80-gig video iPod screws up more than my Treo does. I hook it up to my car stereo & lots of the time I have to reset it b/c plugging in the jack freezes it up. Also, it's so slow that sometimes the song will start playing before the screen switches over to the title screen.

    So Apple is not perfect. Nothing is. Stop whining about your Treo & get something else if you hate it.
    I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by fleeing the scene of the accident!
  12. #12  
    I use my 700p hours a day with HanDBase (www.ddhsoftware.com) and DTG (everyone knows the link for this one) and a few other applications. Looking at the keypad is rare, looking at the screen is just to make sure I am where I need to be. The rest is just automagical. I hate to think of life with a jog wheel and the resulting thumb problems. I am exceedingly satisfied with the 700's layout.

    Ben
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by KabukiAssassin View Post
    Just to throw a wet blanket on Apple fans' gloating- my brand new 80-gig video iPod screws up more than my Treo does. I hook it up to my car stereo & lots of the time I have to reset it b/c plugging in the jack freezes it up. Also, it's so slow that sometimes the song will start playing before the screen switches over to the title screen.

    So Apple is not perfect. Nothing is. Stop whining about your Treo & get something else if you hate it.
    Sounds like you have a lemon ipod..
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewAz View Post
    Sounds like you have a lemon ipod..
    Not necessarily. You should browse Apple's discussion forums and see what people say there. I think Apple's hardware design and user interfaces are great, however, like any other company their devices (especially 1st gen ones) suffer from their fair share of quirks, defects, and inconsistencies. Many of the really experienced Apple supporters on their forums will themselves admit that it is a bad idea to buy a new Apple product within the first few months of its release.

    I will bet anyone good money that once the iPhone is released you will see message boards popping up where people will find one quirk or another to b**** about with the iPhone. There will be threads about how someones screen is too pink, or about how one of the manufacturing lines is producing screens with dead pixels and so and so is on his 3rd iPhone w/dead pixels (and since the whole thing is one screen there will be a lot of issues with dead pixels), or about how when people get a phone call and there is so and so running in the background and the planets align some iPhones will inexplicably freeze and require a reboot.... the list will go on.
  15.    #15  
    Hmmm. Seems that Apple may not be worthy of my praise either.
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajabbari View Post
    Not necessarily. You should browse Apple's discussion forums and see what people say there. I think Apple's hardware design and user interfaces are great, however, like any other company their devices (especially 1st gen ones) suffer from their fair share of quirks, defects, and inconsistencies. Many of the really experienced Apple supporters on their forums will themselves admit that it is a bad idea to buy a new Apple product within the first few months of its release.

    I will bet anyone good money that once the iPhone is released you will see message boards popping up where people will find one quirk or another to b**** about with the iPhone. There will be threads about how someones screen is too pink, or about how one of the manufacturing lines is producing screens with dead pixels and so and so is on his 3rd iPhone w/dead pixels (and since the whole thing is one screen there will be a lot of issues with dead pixels), or about how when people get a phone call and there is so and so running in the background and the planets align some iPhones will inexplicably freeze and require a reboot.... the list will go on.
    I agree with you. But you should never buy any product the first few weeks its out, same goes with software updates. I will probably wait a week or two after the treo patch is out just to make sure my phone does not get bricked or anything.

    But your problem sounds like a lemon pod.. I know 2 people with 80 gigs and they run as fast and as good as my 30 gig.

    No company is perfect. I just hate to say it but the new iphone will fail as a smart phone and will be perfect as a normal phone, Palm and BB have nothing to worry about in terms of losing market share to apple in the smart phone category. Palm just has to worry about me wanting that new BB 8800.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajabbari View Post
    Not necessarily. You should browse Apple's discussion forums and see what people say there. I think Apple's hardware design and user interfaces are great, however, like any other company their devices (especially 1st gen ones) suffer from their fair share of quirks, defects, and inconsistencies.
    First, I have to say I like my Treo, is an amazing device that offers a wonderful set of features amounting to a great user experience - when it behaves. Second, it is true ALL complex electronic devices, not only the Treo 700p, suffer from bugs and require aftermarket tweaks to reach full stability and functionality.

    But let's face it, the Treo 700p is not exactly a 1st generation device, this used to be the 600. The 650 and 700p, in my opinion, were expected to be incremental "improvements" to the original design. To add insult to injury, no aftermarket tweaking is scheduled until a full year after the original release of this phone; most other electronic companies I worked with had updated their devices (bug fixes or additional functionality) much earlier in the product lifecycle.

    I am grieved most by the paltry company support (until recently at least) that with the 700p as such.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    First, I have to say I like my Treo, is an amazing device that offers a wonderful set of features amounting to a great user experience - when it behaves. Second, it is true ALL complex electronic devices, not only the Treo 700p, suffer from bugs and require aftermarket tweaks to reach full stability and functionality.

    But let's face it, the Treo 700p is not exactly a 1st generation device, this used to be the 600. The 650 and 700p, in my opinion, were expected to be incremental "improvements" to the original design. To add insult to injury, no aftermarket tweaking is scheduled until a full year after the original release of this phone; most other electronic companies I worked with had updated their devices (bug fixes or additional functionality) much earlier in the product lifecycle.

    I am grieved most by the paltry company support (until recently at least) that with the 700p as such.

    I agree with you on both points...

    A) The 700p isn't really first gen (except for the EVDO support I suppose).

    B) Even if we were to forgive the bugs (s*** happens), Palm's total disregard for the 700p is really quite unacceptable for a device in this price range.


    I don't plan on getting an iPhone anytime soon, not because of any fault with the iPhone itself, but because it will be AT&T (Cingular) only, I've been there done that and I don't plan on going back anytime soon.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by maninrochester View Post

    You give us a free copy of pTunes and it doesn't really work. Who am I doing business with? Microsoft? Adding insult to injury is the uninstaller, deleting an application should delete ALL of it, not leave bits and pieces behind that make my device slower and more unstable. Again I ask who am I doing business with? Microsoft? I even had to buy software to make it loud enough to be heard!

    Not trolling here. However, if you had a MS WM5 Treo 700WX, this wouldn't be an issue. WMP works just fine for me with NO skipping.

    You won't find a lot of people who HATE their 700P here because they are mainly sticking out the flaws of lagging and skipping; mainly waiting for the MR that should had come months ago despite Palm's completely miserable excuse of sticking it to the carrier's. Others have jumped ship to another device such as the 700WX, I am one of them (having been a PALM OS fan boy since the days of the 1000, such as yourself).

    At anyrate, I feel your pain about the 700P, I had mine the first week it was released and was completely miserable. But, bashing MS because it's what "everyone" does is lame. They do put out a decent product like everyone else and it has flaws just like the rest of them do, but they SURE as hell support their products when it's neccessary.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajabbari View Post
    I don't plan on getting an iPhone anytime soon, not because of any fault with the iPhone itself, but because it will be AT&T (Cingular) only, I've been there done that and I don't plan on going back anytime soon.
    I plan to continue using the 700p as this is the device (despite it's flaws) that best suit my needs now. I will apply the MR when (if?) available and evaluate the results before considering another platform.

    What I read about the iPhone suggests this device, at least initially, will appleal more to the younger crowd looking for the "new and cool" phone. Product evolution can transform it into a more business-centric device in the future but that remains to be seen - the potential seems to be there.

    But, bashing MS because it's what "everyone" does is lame. They do put out a decent product like everyone else and it has flaws just like the rest of them do, but they SURE as hell support their products when it's neccessary.
    Agree, the MS platform has evolved into a powerful and versatile competitor inspite of it's apparent user-interface complexity. Is superior to the Palm OS in some areas and not so in others. But with the lackluster support and lack of tangible OS development on the Palm side, we are now strongly considering moving our business PDA to MS within a year or less.
    Last edited by TreoNewt; 04/23/2007 at 01:32 PM.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
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