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  1. eodell's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by crawform View Post
    What about now that Palm has indicated to Bob C that they will will not make the end of April date either???
    Sinclair did not say that exactly, though one can infer that from his carefully worded response that it will be later than expected. I would not be suprised to be told something along the lines of "late April" and then see an actual release date that coincides with the 755 launch.
  2. #82  
    I just got a reply from Steve Sinclair and posted it up on the Palm Support Response Tracker thread. It sounds like we should have a better idea of a rough release date later in the week but it does not sound like it will be within the next two weeks as Septimus is guessing. I will reserve my judgement until later in the week though.

    While I agree with Septimus that posting any frontpage bashing would be anti-productive, I disagree with TC's recent approach to the story. The original frontpage was great and we all owe Septimus much thanks for that. Ever since though, it seems to me as if TC is purposely ignoring the story completely.

    Steve Sinclair's latest reply indicates that many of the Treo community websites were informed of the Q1 date being pushed back to April. Being that Treocentral is one of the sites that Palm interacts with the most, I would assume they were one of the sites contacted. If so, I do not recall that story being frontpaged and have to ask why Treocentral would sit on that information? Even if TC was not contacted, the weekly Talking Treo section is primarily comprised of links to stories on other websites. So why wasn't a link to one of the other Palm sites reporting the story run there?

    It is certainly not a whine story and is just communicating the information that Palm is asking the sites to pass onto us. It is news and not even commentary, period. What I have been updating the top post of the Tracker thread is bigger news than a few of the TC stories lately.

    I understand this is not NY Times and you have concerns about your site's image. But when information is available on the update, I don't see why TC can't just run it as is without providing an editorial opinion. That way it doesn't take any type of tone at all. If TC wants to be, "Your #1 resource for the Treo smartphone", we shouldn't have to be scavenging other websites for news like this.

    I'm not trying to beat TC up. I firmly believe that TC is the only site that would've helped me out with this whole firmware update campaign. It will always be my favorite Treo website. I just want to make them realize that they can report a story without it having to be an editorial piece.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  3. eodell's Avatar
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    #83  
    I agree with Bob in that I find TC a great resource, and have for some time. I would go on to say that of all the sites out there that report news and have forum communities, TC seems to have the most knowledgeable user base.

    I think Bob is on to something in that TC (as a news site) could have (and perhaps should have) given this issue more attention, as it is newsworthy. I understand the rationale and the desire to be more cirumspect. If you put yourself in the role of one who reports news, it is admirable to want to maintain some journalisitic integrity.

    I can even understand the rationale with respect the the majority of users of the 700p: one should not yell "fire!" in a crowded room. However the problems with the 700p are, at this point, far from an isolated secret among "power users". Even low-level tech support ackowledges theses issues and gives us the "soon-to-be-released" update story.

    One cannot help but compare the situation with the 650, where the memory issue seemed to generate a lot of pressure on Palm, the result being (what seemed to me, at least) more more rapid response from Palm. With the 700p we have some very basic functions that the device does not deliver on. The major difference now is that Palm is supporting several new devices, and some models are doing better than others.

    It may sound foolish, but after this experience I have truly lost faith in Palm.
    Last edited by eodell; 04/10/2007 at 12:17 PM.
  4. #84  
    Hm. I don't recall being specifically notified that the deadline slipped. Gar.

    As I said, it'll get front-paged in the podcast on Monday
  5. #85  
    Why hasn't TC stepped up to the plate and spoken with Palm? Their "wait and see" approach is incredibly weak. They should have taken the lead and cared more about their members (who pay TC's bills) than Palm.

    To believe that Palm was really working as hard as possible for the past 6 months on a firmware update for the 700p is naive, bordering on idiotic. They've been working on a multitude of other phones.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by PDR447 View Post
    oh and most of the time when your car or computer are being fixed you're paying for it to be done. nobody is paying for the rom update.
    I beg to differ. Palm advertised and touted the ability for it to use a bluetooth headset. And that function is not reliable.

    Take your car analogy - if the transmission specifications indicated that the car has a "reverse" gear, and it worked at the dealer... then you drive it a while and discover that the "reverse" gear just doesn't work sometimes - enough so that you basically can't rely on it being there and you need to adjust your driving and parking so that you never have to rely on "reverse" gear...

    I don't know about you, but if I paid $30,000 for a higher-end car, then later discovered that reverse gear wasn't reliable on that model but the manufacturer kept stringing me on running out the clock on the warranty - you can be darn sure that I would not just "live with" the missing reverse gear without raising a stink with the manufacturer that already has all my money for the car..
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    Hm. I don't recall being specifically notified that the deadline slipped. Gar.

    As I said, it'll get front-paged in the podcast on Monday
    I know how much effort you put into the Treocast and you do a really good job with it. I think we all enjoy it. However, I think it reasonable to believe that the front page still gets a lot more attention. But let's just put the Treocast aside for a moment.

    I am hoping you can address the issue I have the most problem with understanding in TC's decision process for running front page articles. Why is it that news concerning the 700p firmware update is worthy of only one front page article, while reviews of Bluetooth headsets and Treo cases are cranked out in a neverending barrage?

    How many cases can a person buy for their Treo? What is the point of reviewing Bluetooth headsets that will not work properly on the 700p anyway?
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  8. ink883's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    I am hoping you can address the issue I have the most problem with understanding in TC's decision process for running front page articles. Why is it that news concerning the 700p firmware update is worthy of only one front page article, while reviews of Bluetooth headsets and Treo cases are cranked out in a neverending barrage?
    Because TC can't sell a rom update
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
  9.    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    I am hoping you can address the issue I have the most problem with understanding in TC's decision process for running front page articles. Why is it that news concerning the 700p firmware update is worthy of only one front page article, while reviews of Bluetooth headsets and Treo cases are cranked out in a neverending barrage?

    How many cases can a person buy for their Treo? What is the point of reviewing Bluetooth headsets that will not work properly on the 700p anyway?
    My sentiments exactly. You guys know where the news is, it's been happening on these forums for the past year, but it just seems like you guys are doing everything you can to sell a very expensive (and what I feel is a broken) device at the moment. What IS the point of reviewing bluetooth headsets for the 700p when NONE of them see to ever work 100%?

    Don't get me wrong septimus, you're a great guy and I don't by any means mean to disrespect you or TC. I like TC because it is one of the biggest resources for treo owners on the web, specifically the forums. That's why I came here when I got my hands on that preproduction 700p back in Feb of 2006. Other Palm news sites (so many to list really) all have several articles that refer to the efforts done on TreoCentral forums to get a fix out of Palm, but there's been nothing on the TC frontpage except for that one article that contained the first letter. It seems like TC is the only one that's really missed what's been brewing in its own forums.

    Now while I'm sure many here appreciate the letter, it seems like TC (as a news reporting site) completely dropped the ball on keeping current with that first article and following the story to fruition. We still don't have our update; it's been delayed twice now (first to April, now to possible May/June). Don't you think your readers, some of those being prospective treo buyers, want to know about this?

    I think the point Bob-C might be trying to make is something along the lines of:
    You might not of been notified the the deadline slipped, but why do you think that is? They gave it to the other treo sites that have been actively putting forth articles about this 700p rom update. No one here heard a peep out of Palm by calling or sending a letter until TreoCentral actually put the damn thing on their front page....THEN Palm actually listened. They don't see it on your front page, they think the problems gone away. It's sad, but proven to be how this particular company responses.
    Last edited by Merlyn_3D; 04/14/2007 at 01:34 PM.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    I know how much effort you put into the Treocast and you do a really good job with it. I think we all enjoy it. However, I think it reasonable to believe that the front page still gets a lot more attention. But let's just put the Treocast aside for a moment.

    I am hoping you can address the issue I have the most problem with understanding in TC's decision process for running front page articles. Why is it that news concerning the 700p firmware update is worthy of only one front page article, while reviews of Bluetooth headsets and Treo cases are cranked out in a neverending barrage?

    How many cases can a person buy for their Treo? What is the point of reviewing Bluetooth headsets that will not work properly on the 700p anyway?
    Good questions. Why is it that TC seems to be kneeling down in front of Palm?
  11. #91  
    Actually, you're wrong. My car and computer came with a warranty. When something doesn't perform the way it was supposed to, and is under warranty, you do not pay to get the problem corrected. These phones come with a warranty and were supposed to work a certain way out of the box. They don't, and Palm knew about it and chose to ignore it.

    When a car manufacturer finds a defect with one of their vehicles that compromises it's ability to function properly or could cause it damage, they issue a recall. That means they fix the defect for FREE. I'm still getting recall notices for my 98 Audi, a car that is almost 10yrs old. I'm also getting class action info as well. So I find it interesting when people tell the people that complain to suck it up, deal with it, get a life or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by PDR4447
    oh and most of the time when your car or computer are being fixed you're paying for it to be done. nobody is paying for the rom update.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  12. #92  
    Instead of burying the story about the 700p deficiencies into a podcast that let's face it, nobody is listening to... why don't you blast the issues on the TC frontpage.
  13. eodell's Avatar
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    #93  
    This has been suggested elsewhere, to little avail.
  14. #94  
    I am starting to agree that TC is fearful of rocking the Palm-boat...but, not sure why.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by crawform View Post
    I am starting to agree that TC is fearful of rocking the Palm-boat...but, not sure why.
    I hate to do this for several reasons 1) I look at myself as non judgemental and pretty positive 2) I love TC and have learned so much about my Treo's (yes read plural) that I endebted to the community

    BUT.....

    I tend to agree with the quote and it bugs me because its not like they have the inside track for Palm information and quote sources inside Palm. What do they have to loose? They obviously dont have any sources to **** off, nor do they have lincensing issues with Palm to worry about. I dont get it!

    This is news worthy among this community and its not getting the attention it deserves from the powers that be @ TC.
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  16. #96  
    Right now I'm just refreshing the palm blog constantly so i can see what the heck they're going to say, then I'll get it up on the front page ASAP. From the load times, I'm guessing I'm not the only one reloading it all the time.

    FWIW, in addition to the two front page stories regarding the open letter, we've brought it up in the podcast 3 times I think? I don't see us as kow-towing to Palm, just waiting until there's more news to report.
  17. waldo15's Avatar
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    Right now I'm just refreshing the palm blog constantly so i can see what the heck they're going to say, then I'll get it up on the front page ASAP. From the load times, I'm guessing I'm not the only one reloading it all the time.

    FWIW, in addition to the two front page stories regarding the open letter, we've brought it up in the podcast 3 times I think? I don't see us as kow-towing to Palm, just waiting until there's more news to report.
    Doing the same around here with Palm's blog... the lack of news is disturbing at this point.

    Septimus, you mention you have already covered the 700p ROM topic three times in the podcasts? No offense, but given the community response, I'd say the podcasts are not a good venue for these types of news. Seems to me we are more keen to get our news on the written form. Just something to keep in mind for the near future.

    And as I mentioned in another post elsewhere in the forum, there were always news to report about Palm's delay on the 700p: Their promised Q1 release (supported by the response letter), then the much-claimed revisiting of that date for late April (source PalmAddicts), and up to this date no ROM available yet. One can cover these facts without adding editorial undertones.

    I'll give you the fact the front page covered the response letter event very good, but there was no follow-up of any kind that could measure to the same level in Treocentral.

    Anyway, there's always room to improve. Keep up the good work that characterizes Treocentral, there's a reason why we keep coming back don't you think?
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo15 View Post
    Doing the same around here with Palm's blog... the lack of news is disturbing at this point.

    Septimus, you mention you have already covered the 700p ROM topic three times in the podcasts? No offense, but given the community response, I'd say the podcasts are not a good venue for these types of news. Seems to me we are more keen to get our news on the written form. Just something to keep in mind for the near future.

    And as I mentioned in another post elsewhere in the forum, there were always news to report about Palm's delay on the 700p: Their promised Q1 release (supported by the response letter), then the much-claimed revisiting of that date for late April (source PalmAddicts), and up to this date no ROM available yet. One can cover these facts without adding editorial undertones.

    I'll give you the fact the front page covered the response letter event very good, but there was no follow-up of any kind that could measure to the same level in Treocentral.

    Anyway, there's always room to improve. Keep up the good work that characterizes Treocentral, there's a reason why we keep coming back don't you think?
    Ok. I'm reading my post and I'm realizing that I'm coming off as defensive. Maybe I'm just hurt about nobody listening to the podcast. So I will be a bit clearer: I'm sorry about not putting this up on the front page again before today.

    To be honest, I really *was* waiting for Palm to inform me about it before I revisited it - partially because basing a story on some of the threads here would give some people the wrong impression about what the tone of TC's forums is - a lot a vitriol and anger around this issue. (EDIT: justified anger). But that's neither here nor there. Should have put it up sooner, didn't. Will today. Mea Culpa.

    To be *brutally* honest I don't have a 700p, never did, and so never experienced these issues firsthand. Lame excuse, but there it is.

    Refresh. Refresh. Refresh.
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 04/17/2007 at 02:03 PM.
  19. eodell's Avatar
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    #99  
    That's good to hear! Thanks!
  20.    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    Ok. I'm reading my post and I'm realizing that I'm coming off as defensive. Maybe I'm just hurt about nobody listening to the podcast. So I will be a bit clearer: I'm sorry about not putting this up on the front page again before today.

    To be honest, I really *was* waiting for Palm to inform me about it before I revisited it - partially because basing a story on some of the threads here would give some people the wrong impression about what the tone of TC's forums is - a lot a vitriol and anger around this issue. (EDIT: justified anger). But that's neither here nor there. Should have put it up sooner, didn't. Will today. Mea Culpa.

    To be *brutally* honest I don't have a 700p, never did, and so never experienced these issues firsthand. Lame excuse, but there it is.

    Refresh. Refresh. Refresh.
    Septimus, it's not that no one listens to your podcasts, it's more like you tell us "oh, and we mentioned it in the podcast which is on the front page", so those of us who read it in the forums will go and listen. Our problem is that there is no DIRECT article about it on the webpage. You can digg a podcast or have it appear in google news because it's not text based. To even listen to the podcast, you have to download a 13MB file and wait about 15 minutes before you hear about 1 maybe 2 minutes about the 700p issue. Do you see how comparitively little this is to the rest of the "article" (read podcast) on the front page? What we're asking for is for you (Treocentral) to take the complaints from the past 6-7 months we've posted in your forums and give them a strong public voice. That is the responsibility of a site like Treocentral (who is NOT supposed to be affiliated with Palm in any way).

    I mean seriously, look at that headset carrier you talked about in the Palm cast. Now it has a front page article! A headset carrier!?!? It's not even a headset?!? It's things like this that make us go WTF (no offense to you or anyone at TC), but seriously. And you talked about that headset carrier longer in the podcast than you did the 700p issue. A headset carrier?!?!\

    Why does a headset carrier that probably no one will be interested in get so much more attention than this infernal 700p problem that hundreds of users who either lurk or post here have and want to know about? Has Treocentral lost its focus? I mean it's a headset carrier! It's not even a bluetooth headset, or a phone case.

    Septimus, I like you and I respect you for doing what you do here in the treocentral forums, but seriously, it's time to get real and be straight with us, why are you guys doing this? Can't you see how frustrating it is that a @%$#% headset carrier gets sooooooooo much facetime on the front page and your own patrons and users who have asked that you voice our frustration and concern are pretty much ignored (comparatively speaking)?

    /rant

    I'm sorry if this offended any of the staff at TC, but I feel it had to be said.


    EDIT: I forgot to mention that I did want to allude to the headset carrier being on the front page while our own frustration and complaints being held off is like a slap in the face for some of us TCers. There, I just wanted to say "slap in the face".
    Last edited by Merlyn_3D; 04/17/2007 at 02:19 PM.
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