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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The 80/20 rule (also known as the Pareto Principle) is a basic business philosophy. I'm not sure why it frightens you.
    Well of course people have misused Pareto's name in this context, but did you know that Pareto died in a prisoner of war camp in Trieste (the last to be liberated by Romanian partisans who accidentally strayed over the border and happened upon the camp) having been arrested only because he wrote a limerick (a literary form theretofor unknown to Italians), about which all I can remember is the last line, "Mussolini, he's so skinny," or something like that. I don't think Pareto died a happy man, even if his last days, and the limerick, only represent the 20% of his glass that was half-empty. Even that doesn't make much sense, does it? His last words were, "Infatto, 20% non basta."

    (That last part, by the way is the only part that comes close to the truth. Pareto, who might have been truly brilliant, had nothing to do with this particular misuse of his name, and the 20%, in his case, had to do with the lamentable fact that most Italians were too poor (the 80%) to buy anything. That's why the Italian Communist party is one of the most vital in the world to this day.)
  2. #22  
    Way to avoid the point totally. The use in business is not due to Pareto, but only named after him in homage. IIRC, Juran later regretted naming it after Pareto.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #23  
    You're right. I did stray. Let's stick to the point. Juran did have regrets, and that says a lot, wouldn't you say? Let's explore that.
  4. #24  
    His regret was naming it after Pareto, not that it did not apply to business.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #25  
    As far as I can figure, then, that's why the 680 sucks, I suppose. I think I follow you now. For a while, this thread was really wildly off course.
  6. #26  
    Let me summarize since you're playing obtuse.
    OP: Palm sucks. Motorola and Nokia have no problems like this.
    Me: Motorola and Nokia have problems as well. You just don't go looking for them since you're not experiencing them. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
    You: Stop defending Palm.
    Me: I'm not defending Palm. I'm only pointing out that no manufacturer is perfect.
    davistld01: No manufacturer's perfect, so find the device that meets the majority of your needs and accept it for the moment.
    You: You're scaring me.
    Me: Why?
    You: This Italian guy died in a POW camp.
    Me: What?
    You: Palm sucks.

    Note: Apologies for leaving Christina out of this, but she was trying to be helpful and was tangential to the main thread.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    As far as I can figure, then, that's why the 680 sucks, I suppose.
    THIS, is the essence of most of your posts, mdavis. You spout all your pompous, clearly researched rhetoric in a vain attempt to sidestep the posts calling you out...and then you come full-circle to what you always rely on...Palm sucks.

    Although you will probably have some petty reply to me saying I am defending the Palm product...but, if you hate the Palm Treo so much, why don't you buy something else? Seriously...
  8. #28  
    You left out the bit about the fact that we should be happy that Palm shorted us by 20%.

    You know, I'm wondering whether we should be refunded 20% of what we paid. It's one thing to be happy, another to be cheated, right? So, 20% of $400 is $80. Hold it. I forgot the glass is only 20% half full rule. So Palm could get by with sending us checks for only $64 and we'd be happy. On the other hand, the rule says we should be happy anyway.

    Hey, are you sure that's the Pareto rule?

    You're right, I'm playing you. I have actually been teaching Pareto for over thirty years. The most idiotic suggestion in this thread was that the rule says consumers should be happy with only 80% performance. It says nothing of the sort. It addresses marketing behavior, and to the contrary of what was suggested here, assumes that consumers will want to be 100% satisfied, or pretty nearly that, but that only a small number of consumers really matter. Somebody here should go back to B school.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    ...
    Note: Apologies for leaving Christina out of this, but she was trying to be helpful and was tangential to the main thread.
    Hey, I was trying to be helpful too. Why dont I get a mention. People all around the world might be trying to put their 680s in condoms as we speak, except for my wise cautionary posts.

    But in all seriousness, I dont think the original disagreements in this post are motivated by a need to defend Palm. It is simply about challenging a dogmatic statement or view that others disagree with. Obviously other phones have problems, and obviously others are not experiencing the same problems that Dunc is, so we say so. I agree, its dodgy to take the approach of defending a company if that is your motivation, but equally, there is no sense in keeping quiet simply because your different view might equate to defending a company.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis
    I have actually been teaching Pareto for over thirty years.
    Now, this is somewhat frightening.
    The most idiotic suggestion in this thread was that the rule says consumers should be happy with only 80% performance. It says nothing of the sort.
    In context, it wasn't idiotic at all and that's not really what he said. For you to resort to ad hominem at this point suggests you admit defeat.
    It addresses marketing behavior [...]
    No, AAMOF. Juran's focus was ...wait for it... quality control. Isn't it ironic?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG
    Hey, I was trying to be helpful too. Why dont I get a mention. People all around the world might be trying to put their 680s in condoms as we speak, except for my wise cautionary posts.
    Apologies, kind sir. I'm sure you've saved many a Treo from lubricant (or ribbed?) based paint disasters.
    But in all seriousness, I dont think the original disagreements in this post are motivated by a need to defend Palm.
    Nah. All hardware sucks. Just use the one that sucks least for you.
    I agree, its dodgy to take the approach of defending a company if that is your motivation, but equally, there is no sense in keeping quiet simply because your different view might equate to defending a company.
    I'm still not sure where pointing out that other hardware sucks too could equate to defending anything (other than equal opportunity suckage).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Note: Apologies for leaving Christina out of this, but she was trying to be helpful and was tangential to the main thread.
    No apologies necessary...I usually don't revisit threads when they veer off in this manner Your summary was dead on and really entertaining, though...

    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    Hey, I was trying to be helpful too. Why dont I get a mention. People all around the world might be trying to put their 680s in condoms as we speak, except for my wise cautionary posts.
    We mentioned you a lot in the other thread, stop trying to hog the spotlight!

    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    You know, I'm wondering whether we should be refunded 20% of what we paid. It's one thing to be happy, another to be cheated, right? So, 20% of $400 is $80. Hold it. I forgot the glass is only 20% half full rule. So Palm could get by with sending us checks for only $64 and we'd be happy. On the other hand, the rule says we should be happy anyway.
    Crap! I only paid $49.99 so I only get $10 back...
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    ...Crap! I only paid $49.99 so I only get $10 back...
    Or maybe only $8...
  14. #34  
    Didn't palm already give us the refund when they dropped the price from $550 to $399 by moving from the 650 to the 680?

    By the way, I'm very happy with my phone.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    Or maybe only $8...
    Ugh!! I forgot that other 20%...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcatny View Post
    ...
    By the way, I'm very happy with my phone.
    I'm not completely happy with mine, but I'm refraining from posting too much about it this weekend because I'm planning to use all that time to try to adopt the so-called Pareto philosophy. I'm using all my energies to being happy about the 20% shortfall that doesn't work. So far I keep feeling that I'm treating myself like a sucker, but I'm a tolerant and flexible guy and after every reset, loss of power, whatever, I tell myself, "Don't worry, be happy, four out of five times it works!" I was going to outline all the posts on this thread because, well, because it seems to be the popular thing to do, even if a bit pedantic, but then I thought I really should try this smiley-faced philosophy just to see if happiness, rather than functionality, would make this 680 work better. I have the nagging feeling that this should be called the Sucker Rule, rather than the Pareto Rule. 2l.d,

    me098r0.d

    e.dkljflk3e.

    Damn. The keyboard just froze. But heck, I got more than 80% out of this post already. Got to smile. Maybe I was wrong about the whole thing.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    I'm not completely happy with mine, but I'm refraining from posting too much...
    I tolerate my phone. The battery life is abysmal. The fact that it is showing signs of wear after only a few months is pathetic. I have been a loyal 3COM, Palm, Handspring (whatever their current name is) user (and stock holder) since the Palm Pilot Professional. But they're not innovating anymore, the OS sucks, and the quality has gone to hell. There are many, many devices on the near horizon that will rock Palms world!

    Dunc
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    Crap! I only paid $49.99 so I only get $10 back...
    Me FTW. I paid $300 and I'm getting $100 back, and to top it all off, mine is not having any problems.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Me FTW. I paid $300 and I'm getting $100 back, and to top it all off, mine is not having any problems.
    I'm there with you. The only problems I have are things that I personally wish were a little more well thought out (see the "Treo Driving Me NUTS" thread)...but I really have no real problems to speak of.

    I'm 80% happy.
  20. #40  
    I'm happy with mine too. Very happy.
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